GoldenMotor.com Forum
General Category => Magic Pie & Smart Pie Discussions => Topic started by: DirtyGinge on March 13, 2011, 06:56:52 PM
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HI y'all
well heres the deal, im bored so its time to mess some kit up......
Ive ordered a Lyen 12 Fet controller from the states, 45A of 48V goodness for my rear pie....so I must change from an internal to an external controller.......But as I have a spare external controller ( carried in case of lightning strike etc), I thought that as I wait for the controller to arrive, I would change to the external controller for the sake of knowledge of the forum ( bows down in respect)...see what changes etc
now the infineon hasnt arrived yet, so this post will take a week or more to complete but I thought id get started....
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So...today
I take out the old internal controller........
5 hall wires and 3 phase wires are inserted....45A alphawire ecowire 12AWG from rs components
( as recommended from scorpion)...dear sir, god knows how you got that in the axle, mines sticking out a little but, gonna have to go back and work on that...
wire up external controller on rear, plenty of air, 1 beer and a test run on the cycle analyst
Now this controller has never had the USB settings changed on it, as I fear, like many others, once you save, the controller sticks at a 15A limit, but maybe its just me
so, lowdown on internal to external GM controller.....
internal external
average high amp 14.5 22.5
peak highest amp 17.5 30.5
the stator ping is noticably louder, but the motor does have more torque, I can now go up hills that I could not before.........first long run tomorrow, and then all I have to do is wait for the infineon in the post ( tracking now)
ill give you all some more thoughts tomorrow after my 50 miles commute
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fantastic news! a man needs a hobby ;D and your hobby is definately fun to watch as it develops. I can't believe the difference between the internal/external controllers. I'm definately not changing any paramenters in the future. can't wait for more trials and results.
As it happens I more or less finished a bike build today, now I must decide how to frnakenstein it with a bit of electricity.
Andrew
P.S I haven't forgotten about the promise of some S.Wales honey
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Hi Andrew
good news on the bike build......
To be honest, the dual Magic Pies are great, and everything one could wish for, but driving through the areas where "road wars" is filmed, the front pie is attracting a little too much attention.....
But to be able to pop the front wheel off, I needed a little more...."shtuff" from the rear wheel...winter isnt too much of a problem as its always dark....
Im quite excited about the infineon.....i must admit the goldenmotor controller has many many useful features available quite easy like cruise control, the programmable features etc, but I just need more ampage......
the cycle analyst easily was hitting 1100W going up a hill, now we are talking :)
ill keep you all posted when the infineon arrives, I know what you need....
a...how much faster
b...how much quicker
c...can I wheelie ;)
d...range/battery etc
having completed over 2000 miles on the pie, and with the config that I can switch each one off, I think I can give you some real world comparisons....
Mind you, one of my hall sensors has blown out, anyone know a good replacement in the UK.....im on pedal first mode at the mo....could be a wiring issue, will look into it when I get time ;)
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wooooo sounds like exciting times ;)
Hey Ginge a quick way to test those halls is connect the 5v supply on the halls then just use an led connected to gnd then positive through a 1k resistor. Spin the wheel and the led should flicker. If you don't see the led light at all its not switching. They are pretty hard to kill unless you exceed 5v or too much heat is around them.
Peace out
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Hi Monkey
I had them multimetered....blue and greeen varying from 5 to 0 as expected, but yellow stuck at .68.....could be wiring I guess....anyway, move forward 2 inches and the wheel is off :)
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Right then , monday morning :) -1Centigrade...yay
the peak amps above are incorrectm, as it seems my front wheel was kicking in occasionally, so control wire disconnected and this mornings journey conducted, but front pie is still on, so back has to push against it....however for pure apples to apples comparison
distance time watts/mile av speed remaining voltage ah used peak amps
dual 21.5 1.04 hrs 27 19 51.0 11.00 30.00 ( 15 each)
single 21.5 1.04 27.5 19 49.5 12 26.5
points to note on single with more amps
1....initial acceleration sluggish to 5mph
2....more controlled acceleration
3....fantastic to 22mph, then winds down at that point
4....on lower battery voltage, a bit less responsive
5...as we all knew, less efficient, but not by much
so the general thoughts are, if you know a single internal is not enough, but found the duals just too much, this is a nice niche in the middle....with hindsight, for my journey I might have gone with this option instead of the second pie....., if I wasnt so ....ermm.....curious about life ??.....it certainly can do it ( although probably not with a GM battery)
I wouldnt fit these to front shocks though, im having to replace my suntour shocks after 2000 miles to replace with solid steels..... just too much wobble I guess
now the journey home ill have both pies on :)
?All I got to do is wait for the infineon now hehehehe ( Ginge thinks, maybe 2 infineons, one front one back....)
( I wonder, once this is all fitted, should I usb change the external to then see if it gets limited...seems like a waste but....)
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internal external
average high amp 14.5 22.5
peak highest amp 17.5 30.5
Hi Ginge,
I was just wondering, when you give those stats on internal vs external amps. Has the internal controller ever been stabbed with the USB cable and were the settings saved.
Gary
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Hi Gary
Never touched it with the USB cable whatsoever.....
Im tempted when the infineon arrives just to make a change and save it, just to prove it, however it seems such a waste as im sure some forum member might like to purchase 0n the cheap a proven controller....might just read the settings off to see what they are, but guesses are 48v with no regen
Gary, would it make any differerence in your discussions with GM, should I be able to prove with lots of data, the difference ?, in which case I might sacrifice it for all our benefit ?, still, not like they will replace all the controllers really , but ....
Controller doesnt get that warm at all with complete hammering :)...26 amp peak so far, batteries arent lilking it that much :)
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Well, it was the yellow hall sensor.....order placed for 10 honeywelll ss41's, ( so if your in the uk and your stuck, I got spares)
anyway, running on sensorless at the moment....managed a peak of 28 today, yay, where is my infineon...
still im going to have to wait now for the hall sensor..
p.s. how the hell does anyone fit decent wires in the axle, can I trim the axle a bit ?
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well new controller is delivered, not an awful lot bigger than the golden motor controller, but the cables are tidier..
Really frustrated now, could have been up and running in half an hour, if it wasnt for the sensor, another few days to wait...
batteries prepped, 312 18650 cells in 3 packs ready to feed any demand the controller has got :)
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To be honest, I think I need a little more wire space coming out of the axle
How safe is it, on these axles, to either drill the centre hole out a bit, or grind another mm out of the middle, anyone done this ?, the wires are in but just a little tight....
I notice on some of the other motors, the wires exit the side through the axle, , wouldnt mind placing my hall sensors through the middle, a 2mm hole should do it,
Hall sensors are dispatched, looks like I could be running by the weekend :).........
My thanks to Mr Lyen, who throughout the whole process has been very very helpful... I don't think ive sent one email that hasnt been replied to within 2-3 hours , even allowing for the time zone....does he ever sleep
There are some benefits also from ordering a controller from Mr Lyen as opposed to Ebikes.ca, but I suggest that you contact Mr lyen direct for more details.....lyen@hotmail.com
ooohh, im excited......should be a great comparison.....
p.s. if your battery cannot deliver the amps, even though it may not cut out, the voltage will drop very quickly
regards
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HELLLPPP...
Ive rewired the pie properly now, replaced all 3 sensors with honeywell ss41's ( nearest place the bloody netherlands)
on wiring the external controller, if I use the hall sensors, there is extreme vibration with the wheel turning, like its rubbing internally, and seems much much faster with not a lot of torque but if I disconnect the hall sensors, the wheel is as smooth as a babies......
tried differnet wiring combinations on the halls, no change
i did reconfirm, took a pic of the original halls, replaced as same, voltage readouts are all as expected ( after 1 more rewire due to a snapped wire)
anybody got any clues ?
got to go out on the bike morrow, I hope to have some infineon action by the end of the weekend, but as it does not do sensorless, if the hall sensor issue cannot be resolved, could be in for some grief.....
thanks all :)
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infineon is in, configured, just charging batteries and connecting brakes etc.....
not long now, first run within the hour
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Yes - now I'm really curious how this goes.
sitting here and tap`s with my fingers and waiting for results ;D ;D
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fingers crossed! lets just hope the honey wine has not got the better him yet today ;)
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nearly ther , postponed by kids bath,,,,,5 mins :)
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Right then...........drum rolll please ........
so , to the chase.....quick summary...OMFG !!! :o :o :o :o
so, out with webby today at dorney lake, nice flat track, no wind...recorded rough timings and then repeated this evening once infineon stuff was worked out
test of bike full throttle no pedaling......timed from 3MPH to 20MPH.... ( started at 3 for all tests due to external controller being in sensorless mode)
rear external Magic Pie only.. 11 seconds
rear external and front internal 7 seconds
rear infineon controller only 7 seconds :o
rear infineon and front internal 4 seconds......nearly went off the back ....yay...honey wine yeeehaaa
top speed recorded was 31MPH, but the rear can take me on a flat to 27MPH and sustain it easily.....I havent changed any settings yet like the 120% speed stuff..The controller is by default set at 30 amps, can take 45 amps without any modification....holy cow !!!
So found the biggest hill I could, up on rear only......2000 watts through a rear pie yay..!!!! right up there ( tried the same hill last week, needed duals or lost speed), motor was just warm, but I havent done any long distance, so ill have a go tomorrow for 10 miles or so before the week commute starts
I do concur with all others have said, the experience does seem a lot smoother, and quieter....but the power...holy cr**
Bear in mind though, this for sure is a battery killer.....you need serious amp delivery to keep up with this beast....one GM battery is just not going to do it
( I wonder if the front could be converted lol....just joking)
I did on friday change all of the hall sensors over to honeywell SS41's, much faster switching etc...
One downside though, and credit to GM's controller, is the infineon will not do sensorless..gm's controller has a lot of failsafe that has to be given credit for
More as testing continues....but feel free to ask questions, I just cannot thin k of everything to type ;)
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Just one thought for everyone, carried forward from the endless sphere forums, and I think I would have to agree....
this is just way too much power for a front wheel, I think you would definitely have to think of this level of power as a rear only mod
Many thanks to Scorpion for his valuable post info also
If anyone has a specific test they want, ill try to oblige
regards
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It certainly sounds like good news then Ginge, but I'm now confused by your Max Amps reading:
internal external
average high amp 14.5 22.5
peak highest amp 17.5 30.5
(http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3002.0;attach=4306;image)
I presume the 68.59Amps is from the front internal and the Infineon rear combined, so why are the Amps are so high if the Infineon controller is set by default to 30Amps?
Using your figures, the Infineon alone must be peaking at 51.09 Amps (68.59-17.5), which is 191.9% more than the Internal controller and 67.5% more than the GM external.
Have you had chance to notice how warm the Infineon controller gets?
Alan
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yup, thats 30a average.. 70 amps phase, not peak amps ...68 amps from combined front and rear ...
the infineon,mounted external, could not be described as warm... even the external GM, coould not be described as warm....only when put in a bag, ever got warm....not hot
motor neutral to touch....
ambient 12C
as for the percentages above the internal.....yes, you can feel it in the handlebars, if that makes sense
more testing tomorrow after hangover
3 x 20AH BATTERIES CHARGED
..
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Way to go Ginge ... :D
when I tested your bike yesterday it was a serious OMFG anyway and completely blew me away (I'm still smiling from the experience :D :D :D) and that was BEFORE your mod!!!
this is a defining moment me thinks. Nice work !
Good luck with further experiments today mate.
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Right then :) morning commute over
Front pie is still connected, just no throttle connection....18KG of battery, 94 KG of rider ( no comment please :) )
21 miles---top speed 24MPH, average speed 18MPH, 10.5 AH...26.5w.mile....1 Hr 5Mins
So it seems that efficiency on this controller is dang near the dual pie....
~It is also a lot more comfortable above 20MPH, with acceleration still to go.....
Will do a little more testing, then get about changing the software once all is settled
Initially, I would say that this is virtually dual pie power, just maybe not in the 0-5MPH range, but after that, not much difference that I can ascertain, smoother by feel though
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oops, forgot
Ambient temp 8C
the motor was mildly warm after 20 miles, the controller was pretty much ambient......even with damn thrashing the thing, havent yet got to a point of hot, or even too warm really....mind you if it was in a bag, then might make a difference.......let you know soon
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Come on... try the 120% speed allready ;D
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LOL :D c'monnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
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im not sure if you need to have the 3 way switch for that setting, will find out as soon as poss, maybe ill even be sober
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Hey man... don't drink and drive ;D
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Funny, it prompted me to search "drunk on honey wine" on google images and this was one of the first pics:
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3444/3182615157_5b5ebf8cd3.jpg?v=0)
Ginge I was searching for an avatar for you lol you just take a pic of your brew and put it there :D
And maybe I should open my eyes more in the bottle-O, notice the bottle says "Product Of Australia"
eh eh
On the topic, Ginge are you full serial you are getting +40MPH on your donkey? Holey flux capacitors man...
I'm still keeping the internals until grief, I do treat my gal nicely though so I doubt it will be anytime soon ;)
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Fraid not, nothing past 27 MPH yet, ( did I mistype somewhere)....i did wire up wrong on saturday and the wheel registered past 45 MPH, but it sounded like a jackhammer, really bad ugly sound.....no stealth there,..,,dont know how I did it........
Im not sure I got the balls to do that speed on aluminium frame.....
Will try the 120% as soon as I get a chance :) honest
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ANOTHER DRUM ROLL PLEASE
Yup, I been sober for 2 days now....shocking, where did the winter go :)
ok USB change test done.....not road tested yet, have to wait till morning
freewheel spin before change, 30MPH
Freewheel spin after 120% change, 35MPH, so in freewheel, works about 15% speed difference...there is for sure a phase advance of some kind here....
My understanding is that you can set 3 overall power modes, that the throttle then control, so if your kids ride the same bike as you, you can limit their power, then unleash the fury once your on the bike drunk. ( just joking, don't drink and drive, your beer will catch flies n stuff in it as you drive)...all jokes aside, 3 of my closest school friends all died in Ireland in motorbike accidents through speeding and drinking over the years, so although I jest, I do know how serious it is......the entire purpose of this experiement is to determine the viability of a single pie with serious controller, over having to shell for dual pies etc....( sorry Gary, you know I love you ) ( p.s. my infineon landed cost about 111 uk pounds with USB programmer and a couple of requested connectors for regen and cruise disable...Mr lyen is very good at modifying your controller for what you need, voltage etc, no customs charges levied.. as strangely, customs thought it was a gift, dunno how the hell that happened ......strange world eh .....:o )
now ive increased the ampage to 35 amps batt, 80 amps phase....
Also, reduced cruise from 15 seconds to 5, it is a bit of a pain not having cruise button, but 15 seconds trying to hold the throttle still is just too much for 15 seconds
For anyone who has this and is annoyed by the throttle off instant braking, you can rig up a switch, with resistors in line, that feed just above 1 volt to the throttle when switch is on, the wheel will do one revolution every 30 seconds if lifted off the ground, but when driving, the controller doesnt think that the throttle has been let go, and wont regen until the brake is pressed....( please see electrobents post on how the controller regens both with throttle off and with braking)..cut switch and everything is back to normal....
batteries charging and waiting now for the same old bloody commute, for stats and road test of top speed etc....312 18650 cells charged and ready to unleash :)....p.s. webby, these are your new packs.......these are different fresh batteries, so may take a charge or 2 to come up to speed
Now if only I had a 36V charger, I could serial 2 batteries and see what this pie wants to do under 72V :)....hehehe
sales pitch......The Magic pie is a great contender in motor build and torque, for the speed that most of us want to travel at...if you want high speed motors above 40MPh a different motor may be a better choice, the pie is even rated as a motor on the endless sphere forums....so regardless of controller, I wouldnt hesitate to recommend it, however as always, please order from canada or a a local dealer with solid proven warranty.... :)...the internal controllers however might have a bit of reputation :S
right, where is the beer...
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you talk more nonsense when sober than when you've got a jar of honey in your hands :D. Speaking of which, I've been trying to source some local honey to send. I spoke to the Chairman of the Cardiff and Vale of Glamorgan Beekeeper society earlier today. There maybe a few jars for the taking with any luck. I'm meeting up with him on Saturday,, fingers crossed. ;)
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oooh, sounds good Andrew.....looks like you will be going into the mead business :)
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crap, just lost my post..,...
right quick version then :),
4-5MPH speed increase in real world flat road, top speed increased from 25MPH to 30MPH, ( bit slow getting to the top from 27-30...)
Efficiency is same as, or slightly better than dual pies...10.5 ah this morning, even with the speed trials and 0-30 trials....
so unless from 0-4 MPH acceleration, or getting from 27-30 quicker is a must, a single pie with 40 amp controller is in my opinion a good equal to duals......
any questions that I havent covered ?
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Gingey my hat goes off to you
Lol you crack me up man, cheers for posting the stats - you sure sound like a happy bloke! :)
I'm getting VERY close to finishing my rebuild !!!!! I will need some help from the drewmeister (Aussie for Andrew) to pick out some tassles, I just cant pick what color I want so I'm sure he'll give me some good advice being such an expert in that field :) hehe jks Andrew :D:D
I have 2 x Turnigy watt meters + a motorbike odometer matched to my wheels so I too will be posting some data on dual slash single 20's since they are switched etc.
Good work mate your donkey is turning into a horse!
cheers
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dirtyginge, can you tell me a bit more on axle conversion to fit the wires for external controller through? What tools would I need? Something like DREMEL?
And how much there really is to grind?
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Any questions that I havent covered ?
Have you tried any of the tests without the front Pie fitted?
Having experience how much resistance a turned off motor makes to pedalling manually, I can't help thinking that the additional weight and drag from the front Pie is having a detrimental effect on your test results.
It would be interesting to know how much difference a standard front wheel would make to these results.
It makes you wonder if the program could be modified to enable the controller to go even higher than 120%? :o
(see attachment showing my wishful thinking)
Changing the necessary resistors and using a 77.7V 21 cell lithium pack would be a good solution to those wanting more speed, 88.2V fully charged would still be below the 90V Maximum safe operating voltage.
Alan
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dirtyginge, can you tell me a bit more on axle conversion to fit the wires for external controller through? What tools would I need? Something like DREMEL?
And how much there really is to grind?
Gašper, using smaller diameter wire it's possible to fit the necessary wiring without having to increase the slot in the axle, but apparently it's a bit of a squeeze, so is would be a good idea to remove any sharp edges from the sides of the slot using a Dremel or something similar:
(http://imgur.com/osjEHl.jpg)
Check out this post (http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=2409.msg13589#msg13589) for more information on the wires.
Don't forget to run an extra wire through the axle for energising the relays, if you find it runs OK in Delta mode you might still want to do the relay mod at a later date. It should be OK to use the black ground wire for the hall sensors as a ground wire for the relays, provided the relays don't draw too much current.
If you get chance to take some pictures during the wiring conversion, then others will be able to see exactly how it's done. ;)
Alan
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Hi sll
Gapy, in the end I managed to fit everything through the axle without mod, but its only just...the problems are....the circlips cut the wire insulation, so I put layers of shrinkwrap on the circlip where it pushes against the wire.....also if you use tools to push the wiring in, it will also cut into the insulation etc...so you need to push the cabling in to the corners with blunt tools,...the alphawire is reallly good, but the insulation is thin....a blessing and curse at the same time......i definitely would sandpaper the edges down there though, very sharp.........small cable ties within the bearing centre also placed to keep pressure off the circlips....fingers crossed
Hopefully tonight ill be able to fit the non pie front wheel, see how much difference it actually makes.....
I did ask Lyen about the voltages etc, he confirmed that this controller as is, modded for me, has a safe operating voltage up to 84V without resistor changes or modifications....so probably 2 packs in series ...9S 8P 18650's ....37.8 hot charge...75.6 .....should spice things up a bit
as for beyond 120%...there was significantly more heat in the controller this morning.... I wonder if its not an advance, but a voltage pull up internally in the phase ?, not sure though what mechanisms though, so just thinking out loud
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right, front pie is removed, ( although disk brakes are grinding a lot, might take a mile or 5 to reshape the pads)....
so throttle up at full power, bike launches, front wheel goes skyward lol, tomorrow morning at 5 AM is gonna be a lot of fun
What does the pie way , 8 KGS ? , plus drag ?......hmmm
Youll get your stats in the morning, provided I don't have another "gee goldenmotor controller wiring is crap, gee has the 5V really shorted with the throttle feed, gee, how do I disembed this luxurious gel saddle from the cavernous fjord that is my ass crack" journey.............thank god for large ditches that help to stop the front wheel ( not the back wheel mind) lol....shhhuuuuppppermannnnnn
p.p.ps...TO EVERYONE, make sure that your ebrake is the first think you wire up ALWAYS...this is your last line of defence in an instance as above.....
p.p.s Avid BB7 cable disc brakes really do lock up a wheel in emergency at 20MPH ( about £50 per set, and very god quality, also same pads as the juicy, so availibility is very good for new pads), it was a screecher...thanks very much to the farmers wife in Shurlock Row for helping me to test them by just pulling out of your farm lane without looking right...my brand new big apple schwalbes have had their first scar...
rant over, but does anyone notice how stuff like this all happens on the same day ????
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Very good work and testing.
Can you tell me what is the Maximum/Medium amperage you are using during your cruising. And if the motor gets hot and so on...
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ermm... off hand
up a hill at 18MPh, 16 amps
cruising at 20MPH......5-7 amp
heat at these speeds just isnt there in the controller....its not cold, but its not warm, ambient
I did a test today, stopped on a hill, held phase wires, then accelerated at full speed up the hill, well nearly fell of the back
but the alphawire ecowire never got warm....the controller in all of these experiments could only ever be described as slightly warm even with the 120% abuse..., but 120% seems to generate a lot more "warm" than 100 % ...ill keep an eye for some more average amp use for you tomorrow
with 35 amps current, 80 amps phase, you can get about 50 amps peak from the controller, motor has never been anything other than above ambient temps.( including when I shorted the throttle, motor jammed on full power and had to hold it with the disc brake....10 seconds of 35 amp push at 0mph...., scared me that one)...no warranty implied etc blah blah, just my experience
regards
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with 35 amps current, 80 amps phase, you can get about 50 amps peak from the controller, motor has never been anything other than above ambient temps.( including when I shorted the throttle, motor jammed on full power and had to hold it with the disc brake....10 seconds of 35 amp push at 0mph...., scared me that one)...no warranty implied etc blah blah, just my experience
That is very interesting 10 seconds at around 1600W and no smoke is very good news for my project. That means that provably can be used at 1000W continuously with out problems.
Any info you can give me on maximum abuse is good, thank you very much
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on a flat surface - road wet though
15MPH about 5 amps
18MPH about 6 amps
22MPH about 11-12 amps
couldnt do any more, too wet on the roads, and no pie on front to keep the traction........scary
to be honest , I bung around on a commute for over an hour at 22-25 mph, ( lots of small country roads slow down speed up etc running about 12-18 amps continous, motor doesnt ever get hot, not even yesterday when I had a short circuit and had to lock the back wheel with the disc brake,,....10 seconds at 45 AMPs with no movement in the wheel, I suppose as dangerous as it gets, but not hot on the motor.......wouldnt want to try that too many times, for sure
Its the best I can give you, will let you know if I can get some more data...your looking at 20 amps for how long ???
regards
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geez man short circuits??
throttle shorting to 5v feed?? what the
your donkey needs some love
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thanks Monkey :)
All sorted now...i used the dang GM connectors and wiring to connect up the infineon, so that I could disconnect and connect the GM controller if I had any issues, but I havent so im going with it...all connectors shrinkwrapped up properly... and yup, pretty much as full on as a throttle can get, but not yet sure exactly where the short happened as the ebrake didnt kick in, I think based on that, it was more likely to be a ground break and short, as the ebrake is perfectly functional in all other conditions.....not a controller issue, just a drunk man with soldering iron issue......
now all the connectors soldered and shrinkwrapped....credit where due though to Avid BB7 Cable disk brakes,.....they stop...period
heres one that make you laugh though....the embarrasing bit..
so I had the issue come up whilst standing on the road, stopped the wheel by brake, then the controller detected the fault condition and reset after 5-10 seconds....
Next time, I thought id be clever...hey this time ill test it on the grass, so if the wheel spins out, it will spin on the grass verge, and I wont risk burning out the motor...what can possibly go wrong lol....hmmm schwalbe big apple like traction with 18kg of battery weight...
Ginge wiggles cable pack, gets dragged 5 metres along this grass verge, unable to reach brake, before the front wheel meets nicely with a drain gulley, which was designed with the sole purpose of stopping front wheels........bike stops, Ginge stops, eventually ginge's chestnuts stop ( on the bar mind), and Ginge supermans over the bars to land gracefully on a nice soft grass cushion....lol
WIth power comes responsibility...the responsibility to wire the f^%£^ up properly in the first place lol..entirely my fault, but a good example of why you need to take extreme care with a controller and wheel that can handle this level of power...never have your hand near the wheel when testing, make sure you know where your kids are, don't leave unattended, etc etc
There is a power on/ off option on the controller that can be set to the controller switches off, this could be wired up to the light switch on the throttle killing the power in an instant...but if you wire properly, you would never have an issue.....
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It was more likely to be a ground break and short, as the ebrake is perfectly functional in all other conditions
It's more likely to be a ground brake without any short. If you remove the ground connection from the throttle, there is no way that the throttle signal voltage can be pulled down to the correct level, and the ground connection from the battery indicator would be probably be much higher than the 5V supply to the throttle control hall sensor, resulting in an output voltage higher than the normal full throttle signal (>3.25V) regardless of the throttle position.
As all of the ancillaries usually share the same ground connection (throttle, pedelec, lights, cruise and power break switches), if a break was to occur on the main ground lead you would instantly have full throttle and no power breaking when the brake switches were activated, just like you've already experienced! :o
With the GM controller, it has a built in safety feature which prevents the motor from working if you turn the power on with the throttle activated. Returning the throttle to the off position automatically resets the safety device.
A poor ground connection on the GM controller can cause a strange problem to occur if the connection is broken when power is switched on. The motor will not respond to any movement of the throttle and the battery indicator would not light up, giving the impression of a faulty power switch or battery problem. This can become very dangerous if the wiring is wiggled enough so that the broken connection is temporarily made and broken again, causing the safety feature to reset and the motor to suddenly start at full power, and no chance of cutting the power by activating either (or both) of the brake switches unless the poor connection makes contact again.
Never underestimate the importance of good connections, a total loss of power due to a poor or faulty connection can be very annoying and cause inconvenience, but suddenly being confronted with full power could be very dangerous.
Picture the following scenario, you are waiting at a very busy junction with a lot fast moving traffic and your bike suddenly accelerates forward at full throttle without any warning!
Do I really have to explain how serious a situation like this could be?
(https://i.imgur.com/KBmf9lV.gif)
Now might be a good time to rectify those dodgy connections you keep having to fiddle with in order to get the motor to run. ;)
Alan
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Hi Alan
No explanation needed, my crotch is still recovering..
All rewiring was completed last night......the biggest problem being that the wiring was done properly, soldered etc, but the wire used just has a habit of breaking just after the solder.....sound like any wiring we know ?? lol
One thing you never save money on in any vehicle, is safety, no cheap tyres, no cheap brakes, hence why I went out early and fitted the bike with 180MM front and back disc brakes....they have the power to halt the wheel, probably burn the wheel out but better than a face full of bus....
A good lesson for all reading this post, experimenting and mixing stuff up is exactly that, always side with caution
:)
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Gingey hey mate, for your connectors you could replace the GM ones and use something like this (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Connector-Mini-DIN-8-Pin-Male-Inline-Cable-Plug-/200589979959?pt=UK_Computing_CablesConnectors_RL&hash=item2eb4183137), that comes in a bigger size like this (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/8-PIN-8-PIN-DIN-PLUG-CONNECTOR-/120590391618?pt=UK_Computing_CablesConnectors_RL&hash=item1c13bf5942) along with the sockets (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Connector-Mini-DIN-8-Pin-Female-Inline-Cable-Socket-/370495190682?pt=UK_Computing_CablesConnectors_RL&hash=item56433bf69a) or these (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/8-Pin-Electrical-DIN-Trailing-In-Line-Socket-Pk2-/160451766360?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item255baba858) for the bigger ones.
The bigger ones are really easy to build up, smaller ones a bit fiddly so if you don't mind the bigger plug it fits bigger guage wire easy and you can slide heatshrink over all the solder connections. Once you solder it up, seal it with hot glue or epoxy and it will last forever :D
I've got this happening with all connections front to back, I'll use them for some battery balance wiring too.
anyways please don't blow it up hehe :D
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Dont blow it up ? eh? where's the fun in that ?? how would the forum learn.,.....no indeed I have to sacrifice my ginger bits for the greater good :)...thanks monkey, ill give them a looksie, but im laying off modding for a while, before the interior minister kills me ( el wifey)
little bit more info on the 1 wheel
efficiency a little bit less this morning at 10 ah for the journey..however if I drop down to average speed 17 instead of 19, and regen more, the 21 miles only takes me about 6 minutes more, but uses 7.5 ah instead of 10....got 8% regen back, 1/2 ah
uses about 12-14 amps to cruise at 20-25 mph.....didnt check the usage at 29, too busy trying to hang on...
the front feels scarily light now with a standard wheel on it, I don't know whether its due to the lighter feel of the steering or due to the back lifting the front up more......might counterweight it with a couple of kilo weights at the front, or fit a frame battery in the triangle, but it was raining this morning so I couldnt bring it...top road speed seems to be 29-30 on a single, on flat road, but slows down the acceleration at 27-30.....kinda hard to get amp speed ratings accurate, kinda hard to judge slight inclines...
all amp readings taken at 51 volts, so you can work out wattage from there
One more thing, on testing the windings with the controller in bag
Did 20 Second 0-30 accelerations up slight hills etc, starting at 45 amp, ending up at 25 amp for 20.... second runs,.......4 times, motor not warm, controller warm but not hot, and thats with it in a bag
Now the entire thread is only as always my experience and opinion..
p.p.s, I wouldnt dare put this on a front fork, unless you have done serious research into your forks
feel free for any more questions, will do my best :)
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Hi DirtyGinge how much amps do you think the factory phase wires take safely? I am getting one of these controllers to but I would rather not have to replace phase wires if possible to get an extra few amps.
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to be honest I don't know..sorry, never seen the factory phase wires...
I opted for scorpions verdict...alphawire ecowire 6718 ( I think).....600V 45 Amp rated, however ive only once felt them warm due to some bad bad wiring experimentation trying to get the phases right, blew every fuse in my battery packs, so god knows what happened, but ive put 55 amp through the alphawire and not even warm.... ( one handed up a hill, not funny)
the internal controller wiring that ive seen, with the mains input into the wheel didnt seem that bad to be fair, I would imagine 30 amps through those wouldnt be impossible, but your getting into alchemy issues with the contruct of the metal etc......
are you uk based ?
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you could replace the GM ones and use something like this (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Connector-Mini-DIN-8-Pin-Male-Inline-Cable-Plug-/200589979959?pt=UK_Computing_CablesConnectors_RL&hash=item2eb4183137), that comes in a bigger size like this (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/8-PIN-8-PIN-DIN-PLUG-CONNECTOR-/120590391618?pt=UK_Computing_CablesConnectors_RL&hash=item1c13bf5942) along with the sockets (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Connector-Mini-DIN-8-Pin-Female-Inline-Cable-Socket-/370495190682?pt=UK_Computing_CablesConnectors_RL&hash=item56433bf69a) or these (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/8-Pin-Electrical-DIN-Trailing-In-Line-Socket-Pk2-/160451766360?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item255baba858) for the bigger ones.
Monkey, are those mini-DINs directly compatible with the original GM ones, or is the pin layout slightly different?
Alan
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I'm getting VERY close to finishing my rebuild !!!!! I will need some help from the drewmeister (Aussie for Andrew) to pick out some tassles, I just cant pick what color I want so I'm sure he'll give me some good advice being such an expert in that field :) hehe jks Andrew :D:D
TASSLES!! my speciality, don't worry Monkey I know my place :D
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Hi Ginge I live in Havelock,Ontario,Canada.About 1 1/2 hours north east of Golden motor canada.Only takes couple of days to ship if in stock from Gary hehehe.If it will take around 30 amps on factory phase wires that would be perfect I think.I have read your post but I don't see wheel size?I am assuming 26".Wonder what kind of performace at 48v 30 amp with 20" rear pie? I also have 26"front pie but will use mc for that as you stated it would not be good idea to use lyen controller on front wheel.Im kind nervous with stock front wheel setup.That would really suck if that wheel comes off doing 20 miles an hour.Its all monkeys fault.Looking at his sweet looking bike made me want 20" rear pie lol.I think 2 pie would be to much weight for me.I have been watching you progress with lyen controller and it sounds great the performance from 1 pie!Anyone know where to get 20" front wheel 36 or 48 spoke with disk brake mount hub?I have rim and disk brake hub just have to figure out spoke length,order spokes and lace wheel.Be nice to just buy one if possible.Saving for a lyen! rollin
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well, what I found out today is that the 30A default and 70 amps phase in the config file is for 72V, so in the first day or so, I reflashed and took away about 25% of the power, and never even bloody noticed :o...default for 48V is 45 amps and 105 amps phase
I cant tell you about the factory phase, never seen the...sorry, but I used 12AWg, maybe someone else can weigh in on that front..
Im using 26"...150 Kg bike and rider......
Apart from the 0-5 and the 25-30 ....the range in between is just as much as a dual pie, no issues with me....to summarise, if I had this controller at the beginning, I would never have bothered with dual.....you have all you need
One thing I noticed when trying to get a replacement hall is the speed they can go at, and this may be important with a smaller wheel due to the higher RPM, I did source some UK hall sensors with 1KHZ switching, but the honeywell SS41 had a 10KHZ switching capability ( ffrom memory, but it was 10X the standard hall sensor)...with that much speed difference, even though I had only 1 problem with a hall sensor, I replaced all three to ensure the utmost accuracy and signalling
hope this helps, ...hope someone has some information on the factory phase
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you could replace the GM ones and use something like this (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Connector-Mini-DIN-8-Pin-Male-Inline-Cable-Plug-/200589979959?pt=UK_Computing_CablesConnectors_RL&hash=item2eb4183137), that comes in a bigger size like this (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/8-PIN-8-PIN-DIN-PLUG-CONNECTOR-/120590391618?pt=UK_Computing_CablesConnectors_RL&hash=item1c13bf5942) along with the sockets (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Connector-Mini-DIN-8-Pin-Female-Inline-Cable-Socket-/370495190682?pt=UK_Computing_CablesConnectors_RL&hash=item56433bf69a) or these (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/8-Pin-Electrical-DIN-Trailing-In-Line-Socket-Pk2-/160451766360?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item255baba858) for the bigger ones.
Monkey, are those mini-DINs directly compatible with the original GM ones, or is the pin layout slightly different?
Alan
Hey mate, they are unfortunately not... 1 pin difference lol
The smaller ones hold better than the GM ones, and the larger type are much easier to wire up etc.
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there is a min din that you can get from maplin thats pin compatable...
regards
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Monkey, are those mini-DINs directly compatible with the original GM ones, or is the pin layout slightly different?
Hey mate, they are unfortunately not... 1 pin difference lol
I've just been having a good look at those 8 Pin Mini-DIN connectors and they look the same to me (see attachment).
Alan
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Could very well be, mine are actually from Jaycar electronics Australia.
The type I'm using are audio connectors, all the pins are centered so it doesn't line up with the GM ones.
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heres one that make you laugh though....the embarrasing bit..
so I had the issue come up whilst standing on the road, stopped the wheel by brake, then the controller detected the fault condition and reset after 5-10 seconds....
Next time, I thought id be clever...hey this time ill test it on the grass, so if the wheel spins out, it will spin on the grass verge, and I wont risk burning out the motor...what can possibly go wrong lol....hmmm schwalbe big apple like traction with 18kg of battery weight...
Ginge wiggles cable pack, gets dragged 5 metres along this grass verge, unable to reach brake, before the front wheel meets nicely with a drain gulley, which was designed with the sole purpose of stopping front wheels........bike stops, Ginge stops, eventually ginge's chestnuts stop ( on the bar mind), and Ginge supermans over the bars to land gracefully on a nice soft grass cushion....lol
lol if only there was video of this! Did you spill your drink?
Gary
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The only comparison my memory can make is, you know in the old western films, when a man is dragged behind a horse by the rope... :)
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Now I also have this Infineon controller (12 fet Lyen 4110) connected to my pie... It is a beast!!! Really...
The top speed is now 48 km/h(120% settings) - I know just 8km/h diffrence, but it feels a lot! The torque is awsome-I had to bring the amps down! Now I am running on 23A continious and 50A phase!
While It was on 30A continious I could not stopped it-it was dragging me all ower the garage :o
So this week I going to ride it and If the speed is still not what I need, I'm going delta ;D
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you know what.....its a monster
i Had poor webby...five minutes of his poor pie install,... now try this, gave him the himalayan infineon pie, like watching a drunk trying to cycle down a steep hill..he loved it....
got mine on 30 amps, 70 phase....glad you liked it ;)
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so we have confirmation on the top speed increase??
:D
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yup, real world for me about 5MPH.....
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soooo 35Mph?
I'm trying to decipher this lol
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I had the great privlege of trying Ginge's himalayan infineon pie - yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeepers! It was a very very steep hill up and just kept pulling and pulling and pulling. I was too scared to open it back down the hill though :-[ It can pull a wheelie for sure.
Hey Ginge - I went on first simulated commute earlier, 21.1 miles in 55 minutes with average comfortable pedalling. One battery and still showing green on the battery meter at the end. Physically it feels like I just did a couple of miles on traditional bike on a flat with light wind behind me ;D ;D ;D (proper commuting starts tomorrow)
Where did you purchase the Infineon 12 FET Lyen 4110?? I'm saving up already.
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soooo 35Mph?
Noooo 30mph!
4-5MPH speed increase in real world flat road, top speed increased from 25MPH to 30MPH, ( bit slow getting to the top from 27-30...)
The top speed is now 48 km/h (120% settings) - I know just 8km/h diffrence, but it feels a lot!
48 km/h = 29.8258 mph
8 km/h = 4.971 mph
Obviously these figures will vary with battery voltage, wheel size and frictional/aerodynamic resistance etc.
Alan
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If you lift the wheel, it will spin at 35MPH, but real world with 18KG battery and 95 KG rider is 30MPH
now that for sure will change with higher voltage, which apparently accoring to Mr Lyen can be done up to 84V without modification .....
For me personally, 30MPH is fast enough...it was wet and I was bricking it :D....but for a simple software setting change, 5MPH was a nice surprise
I don't know if the software change and more phase amp will increase it further, will check when I get time, but gotta spend some time with the kiddies while they remember who I am ;)
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email lyen@hotmail.com, he will give you pricing and options....
if you wanted one of these controllers, I must seriously advise either very hardened steel forks, but in reallity, probably a rear pie only....this much power going through the front forks I just cannot see being something that will end well.....
p.s. got my Full face DH helmet today....i love my face ..wanna keep it
Glad you are enjoying your pie Mr Webby.....;.glad you enjoyed mine too,...its a bit too light at the front though, hopefully will rectify that later
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So I was right about the speed then lol
;)
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dirtyginge:
I just want to know how in the hell did you get this 12AWG wire through....
I was lucky to get 3x1,5mm (AWG15) and 6 utp cables (LAN cable) for sensors! It is working quite well though... Cable is a bit warm, but nothing serious, even on 30A setup...
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well it was an only just, with shrinkwrap on the 5 small hall wires as I couldnt get a lan cable in there with the three other wires.....bloody tight though.....lots of bending the wire before placing it in the right angles etc....more beer .....etc more beer etc .....
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,...its a bit too light at the front though, hopefully will rectify that later
Sounds like a frame shape batt pack is needed ;)
Here's a suitable frame bag i've found for you...
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you cheeky little fella
Honey arrived today, well packed in a very familiar avid box......well themed :)
give it 4-5 months, and we shall be swinging from the lantern on welsh honey ;)
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,...its a bit too light at the front though, hopefully will rectify that later
Sounds like a frame shape batt pack is needed ;)
Here's a suitable frame bag I've found for you...
lol Andrew that sure is a purdy bag there
Hey Ginge can you release your brew secret? Or is that kinda like the magician thing ;)
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Brew secret as in how to , or what ingredients ? or why am o so off the wall lol ?? for the honey beer ( wine for region 2) ??
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ill do a post when I make the honey wine, a tribute to andrews kindness ( and a really nice honey jar)
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Not much left on this post to be fair, I think ive given all apart from large large ampage .......still on 30 amps @ 48V ( 1500 watts), I just don't feel I need the power at all...i might increase for you guys for figs and stuff, but it is just perfect for me....poor front pie is gathering dust in the shed ( anyone in the uk wanna buy a front pie internal controller etc etc)
I did some cross country ...now bear in mind that the difference between battery current and phase current is that phase current is used as your startup current ( 0-5 mph), and is generally 2.5 times the battery current)
cross country was mental......big apples bouncing all over the place.......
there was one section, at least 45 degrees, and about 5 metres.....im at the bottom at 0 mph thinking hmm, I wonder..... and pow I hammered it, all the way up, and that dang motor ( hell niosy ) just hammered me up....now the motor was the hottest its ever been for me, ( but not too hot to touch), but the controller was only warm ( in a bag)....dont think 20 meters of the same would increase the longevity of the motor, but even after 300 miles of the lyen , I was amazed.....
There are a few small things that are painful...throttle regen, if you let go of the throttle, you get a sort of regen, this can be countered as described earlier in the post with resistors), but the cruise control sometimes is sooooo hard to get right....ive got mine set for 3 seconds, but you have to hold the throttle dang still ...sometime for 6-7 seconds, but if the road is bumpy, you cant get it righth every time, but apparently this is a 12 fet board problem only...90% oof the time its fine....at traffic lights on this settings , you can get locked into cruise at full throttle, so don't lend the bike to the girlfriend without disabling regen, but it suits me
would I change back to an internal/external GM controller..............neverrrrrrrrrrr.......kevin, whatdya think, havin been on the donkey ........
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The cruise control sometimes is sooooo hard to get right....ive got mine set for 3 seconds, but you have to hold the throttle dang still ...sometime for 6-7 seconds, but if the road is bumpy, you cant get it righth every time, but apparently this is a 12 fet board problem only...90% oof the time its fine....
If you have room for a 5K pot and a two way switch you could have a manually adjusted cruise control and simply switch between throttle and the last set cruise speed. You would simply adjust the pot to get the exact cruise speed that you want.
(http://www.arhservices.co.uk/GoldenMotor/SimpleCruiseControl.JPG)
With a bit of ingenuity, it should be possible to rig up a single push button to activate a small crossover relay that would automatically switch off again when the brakes were applied. It would automatically return to the last set cruise speed when you pushed the button again.
With all that power, you'd have to be careful that you didn't accidentally switch on the cruise function from a standstill. :o
Perhaps you could use the throttle signal voltage to operate the relay via the push button so that the cruise function could only be switched on while the throttle was being used.
If you used a couple of diodes, you could have the cruise function working in conjunction with the throttle, so that each one could override the other. This would allow you to increase the throttle to provide more power on steep hills etc. and then just release it to resume the set cruise speed, so you wouldn't need to reach for the cruise switch every time you want to quickly accelerate past slow car drivers and non ebikers! ;D
This should at least give you something to think about. ;)
Alan
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Hi Guys,
Nice job dirtyginge! ;D
I hope you have some serious torque arms!!!
Now for the bad news about my Pie, I'm sorry to say but it was time we said good bye. :'(
I miss her already, I sold it to my friend Pat again lol. And he's in love with it! ;D
The ping is holding up very well with the abuse I gave it, very pleased and no matter how hard I pushed it, all the cells balanced perfect every time.
Oh yes we did have good times together my pie and I.
By the way guys just make sure you have proper C rated batteries, I think for the pie 30+ amps LiPo is sure the way to go, both for many times the C and they are lighter, and you can configure them any way you want. I was scared at the thoughts of lipo, but my thread over on endless sphere ( I waant to go lipo (http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=26653) ) gave me some great info on LiPo!
I just don't think I will go back to LiFeP04, sure it's plug and play, but that's no fun ;D and they are heavy. You can build a really cheap LiPo pack indeed rated at 5 C, ping was 2 C max!
I had my Pie @80 amps and it threw me off the bike first time I pulled the throttle, It was too much torque, but boy did she fly up hills! The infineon @40 amps was just fine!
By the way guys, I don't remember having problem fitting the eco wire and the cat 5 hall wires through? I didn't use insulation in the halls where they came through the axle, and shrink wrapped the rest of the way!
My intention now is loosing weight, and I have been cycling (no motor) and I am getting fitter every day, last week alone I cycled 75 miles in total, so not too bad and I'm loosing weight, brilliant, I need to!!!
Anyways Lipo is the way to go now I'm convinced, for me anyway and my objective this time is to have the power if I need it while keeping the bike light. I plan on using 2 bricks of 6S 8 amp lipo for 44 volts and it will weigh 2 kgs, a massive difference from the 10 kg ping. 20 amps LiPo would only be 5- 5.5 kgs!
So I'll pedal like the devil and only use the throttle to get me the extra distance.
Sorry dirtyginge, I don't mean to take over your thread LOL
Did you run your pie with 72 volts yet?
It's about time GM offered an external controller in a package that's suitable for mounting on a bike and that's capable of 40-50 amps, with usb interface too. They seriously are not doing themselves any favours making people find alternatives!
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Scorpion :D, hi there
Welcome back!!
Dont even think you are taking over my thread....you did sooo much of this work before we were even here, this is your thread continued....many thanks for the experimentation and cost and time that you bothered to put in, to give the info to the rest of us, ( and you did put it in, I read it all )
(p..s I grew up in kilkenny ;) ) slainte
I know what you mean about the drag though...dual pies nearly killed me on the cycling front... but the infineon with a 3 way swich is dang near close, set option 1 at 55-60%..not too bad, ...but the hills....sheesh
At the moment I have a "free" ( labour time involved) source of lithium ion 18650 cells, so I can build 16Ah batteries for the cost of the hours of labour if mine only ( thread to follow), so 2-3 of these gives me the current delivery I need, and yes, its a pocket rocket!!! what a controller...who would have thought a circuit board could wield such a difference .....
Not gone to 72V yet, the problem is not the battery, its the charger, and im flat broke... I need at least a 36V charger...one for next month when im bored lol
Welcome back .....cead mile failte !!
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Scorpion :D, hi there
Welcome back!!
Dont even think you are taking over my thread....you did sooo much of this work before we were even here, this is your thread continued....many thanks for the experimentation and cost and time that you bothered to put in, to give the info to the rest of us, ( and you did put it in, I read it all )
(p..s I grew up in kilkenny ;) ) slainte
I know what you mean about the drag though...dual pies nearly killed me on the cycling front... but the infineon with a 3 way swich is dang near close, set option 1 at 55-60%..not too bad, ...but the hills....sheesh
At the moment I have a "free" ( labour time involved) source of lithium ion 18650 cells, so I can build 16Ah batteries for the cost of the hours of labour if mine only ( thread to follow), so 2-3 of these gives me the current delivery I need, and yes, its a pocket rocket!!! what a controller...who would have thought a circuit board could wield such a difference .....
Not gone to 72V yet, the problem is not the battery, its the charger, and im flat broke... I need at least a 36V charger...one for next month when im bored lol
Welcome back .....cead mile failte !!
Go raibh maith agat, dirtyginge ;D Agus tá fáilte romhat ;D
I'm from and living in Kildare! Where do you live now?
Yeah it cost me alright, and the time, but It was fun and educational lol. There were times I wanted to beat the crap out of it, but She flew in the end, I miss the old girl! :'(
Free batteries is nice for sure! ;D Lipo is handy because I will be able to add or remove packs as required, I was thinking 12S 8 amp x2 in series for 44 volts. I was doing a lot of research because LiPo was scaring the bejesus out of me to be honest, But I think chargers are so good these days that fire can only happen through abuse and foolishness! That's the downside, the chargers are expensive and then you got to get a psu! I was looking at a Hyperion 1420i it needs a 24V 700+ watt psu. Expensive, but I should be able to charge in 30 mins or so, depending on balance of course! On the + side the 8 amp 44V setup should weigh only 2kgs! A major advantage for someone needing a light as possible bike! And the limited battery will make me pedal more, so I intend to use for the extra distance and the Hills.
There is a hill about 15 miles away in Laois, just beyond Carlow, Rossmore, and it's 1000 feet to the top, but it's up and down the whole way there and I'll be damned if I'm going to pedal up that! ;D I know no pain no gain, but I want to enjoy my cycles too and go where the scenery is better.
I think I remember on the endless-sphere forum someone going to 72+ volts and said the efficiency was crap because it was wound for maximum efficiency at 48 volts! So It will be interesting to see your results, I always wanted to go to 72 volts but I wasn't prepared to buy another 24 volt ping, too heavy! And then I would have had to set the infineon to work at 72 volts.
Anyway dirtydinge, keep the mods flying and the pies frying! ;D
Mark
P.S Is Leslie still around?
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Hi scorpion
Yes its a lovely country for sure, and I miss it too...living in london for the last 20 years.....but when I was growing up there it was cycle everywhere ( I was in the country...wayyy in the country).........great...(except winters lol)
Good lipos have stablised massively, and if I was going to buy a battery it would be a 48V ping 20AH, using 18650 cells is a heavy option, but if you can get 32ah of 48V battery for 2-3 days labour then its hard not too lol, especially as my windsor commute is 50 miles a day ( its lovely, just like home, no houses for miles on the route.)
efficiency is really bad at the higher voltages...if I really hammer my infineon I will get 25-28 watts per mile, but at 72-84 volt, the efficiency is 50 watts per mile, and 100 V is closer to 75-100...but obviously they are there for the top speed...I wanna do it for the forum al your knowledge base, but as for me day to day 20-24 is fast enough, even though I can top 30 on 48v
Leslie had a ....erm....moment...last post or 2 is somewhere in the forums.....i don't think he was quite satisfied with customer services:D, has posted as a guest here and there...its a loss for sure, he was a wealth of information.......
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Hi All
Just one of the last few updates, as I think we have covered just about everything I can think off
I turned off the "throttle Regen", altough I think its got a lot of plus points, I think its got a few more negatives, its a bit "unnatural" to a lifetime cyclist.....freewheel is freewheel since ive been cycling for the last 30 years, and this just counters every instinct ive had in that time
the setting in the Lyen software is "slip charge mode"....set this to 1 (true) and the throttle regen no longer works, only brake u regen...this is far more like the GM controller, you brake when you brake ...simples :D
I don't know if its me, but this controller does seem to freewheel easier ( or its the beer)
........
Andrew, as youve had 5-10 miles on the Winsorlayan donkey, and you have had dual pies for a while, I think the forum would appreciate your opinion as independent :D, it would be a good comparison........
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Yes its a lovely country for sure, and I miss it too...living in london for the last 20 years.....but when I was growing up there it was cycle everywhere ( I was in the country...wayyy in the country).........great...(except winters lol)
Good lipos have stablised massively, and if I was going to buy a battery it would be a 48V ping 20AH, using 18650 cells is a heavy option, but if you can get 32ah of 48V battery for 2-3 days labour then its hard not too lol, especially as my windsor commute is 50 miles a day ( its lovely, just like home, no houses for miles on the route.)
efficiency is really bad at the higher voltages...if I really hammer my infineon I will get 25-28 watts per mile, but at 72-84 volt, the efficiency is 50 watts per mile, and 100 V is closer to 75-100...but obviously they are there for the top speed...I wanna do it for the forum al your knowledge base, but as for me day to day 20-24 is fast enough, even though I can top 30 on 48v
Leslie had a ....erm....moment...last post or 2 is somewhere in the forums.....i don't think he was quite satisfied with customer services:D, has posted as a guest here and there...its a loss for sure, he was a wealth of information.......
Yeah It's a nice place alright when the sun shines ;D
50 mile commute? that's a lot. I wouldn't want to do 50 miles a day on a bike (mountain bike) ;D I hope the country roads there are much better than here, they are atrocious now after the last 2 winters, and they still use chippings and tar as a road surface! LMAO
It's a pity we don't have cycle lanes, as you really are risking your life on the roads here in the country!
100 volts? lol I would be way too scared! :)
32 amps 48 volt is a big battery, I think if I were using a big battery like that I would use a trailer!
Yeah les is brilliant, he is super at the electronics, I know how he feels with customer service, or lack of lol
Mark
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WEll, the roads here are like ireland......its not the road, its the bucket of a pothole that you miss.......its not that great where I live at the moment to be honest....2 of the same winters...and in the area that I am, apart form Scotland, its been the worst here....
Im lucky in that im on the outskirts of windsor...within a 5 mile cycle , im in the middle of nowhere
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WEll, the roads here are like ireland......its not the road, its the bucket of a pothole that you miss.......its not that great where I live at the moment to be honest....2 of the same winters...and in the area that I am, apart form Scotland, its been the worst here....
Im lucky in that im on the outskirts of windsor...within a 5 mile cycle , im in the middle of nowhere
Do you get back home much?
Same where I live only I ride 2 mins and I'm in the sticks too. I'm sure glad I don't live in a big town or city, I would crack up!
between the crap so called roads, cars and tractors it really could be a lot more fun to be honest. I wish there were such thing as cycle lanes here.
There is plenty of land to make proper paths and cycle lanes, but I suppose they would be worse condition than the roads! ::)
Mark
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i was lucky enough to take a 5 mile trek on Ginges' bike on the weekend so I feel it appropriate to make comment on his current set-up with the Infineoon 45A.
In bulllet points:
The pie motor can take abuse, it's a marvelous robust DD motor. Ginge is in a lucky position where battery packs are in abundance so having three 54v 20ah lithium-ion packs running, the options available are wide a nd varied.
The bike itself is a long distance 'donkey' as Monkey would say. It is definately 'function first' for the 40 mile round trip commute that Ginge does on a daily basis.
He had the bike restricted to 26mph when I was there which I would not have the restraint to do if it was my bike ;D. The take off was comparible to a dual pie on a 48v GM battery and magic controller, although off one rear pie.
The most impressive overall performance was hill climbing. I went up a steep twisting but short hill and the CA showed over 1600watts. The bike did not maintain speed it actually accelerated up the hill with a very strong pull until the hill ran out :o. The torque felt amazing!
Ginge will have to confirm how the CA and controller was set at that time.
The one thing that was noticable in a negative way compared with my own dual pie bike was the long pauses when engaging throttle after regen braking, as I have no regen on my bike and have forgotten how noticable this is.
He has a lot of finely tuned gadgets on his bike to keep him entertained during his long ride including a new pedelac system which helps mimic a more natural bike riding sensation and actually works well with different speed settings. However, I'm not sure about that fat man's saddle, it gave me a saw Ar$e! :D
Overall, it's a GT long distance tourer which can be changed into a complete angry handful if you are feeling dangerous. I personally would love to try the controller on 100% or over ;D but if the bike was mine i'd be hesitant letting it off the leash in someone elses hands.
Andrew :)
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Thanks Andrew.......rounds the thread off nicely :)
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Hey guys,
You think the pie is fast @ 45 amps?? muhhhahaahahahahahah
Then try 80 amps!!! :o
I must admit though once the speed has build up a little the amp draw falls off fairly fast, but still at max speed she was pulling just over 60 amps and pulled me up very fast, I would have liked to have tested it with around 80 volts, but I could feel the front wheel rising up the hill and I got scared, so I think I reached the absolute max safe torque for an Ebike, though I think with better weight distribution it could have taken more!
You want some mega LiFeP04 or and decent LiPo for that kind of power though!
Amazing thing was the eco wire held up no problem, though I didn't get the chance for any long term tests because my controller went up in smoke! ::)
I sure miss her though, I'm sad I couldn't afford to keep it and build my next bike! One of the cool things about LiPo though is you can easily connect up the batteries for different voltages, mega fast short trips, or longer distance cruising.
From a 10 amp pack some LiPo can deliver over 500 amps CONSTANT!!!! ::) Obviously you would run the pack down fast, but of course you would melt your motor. Imagine the Magic Pie glowing like a nuclear reactor in melt down! ;D
I need to get out now the weather is fantastic for April 22 Celsius! ;D
Mark