internal to external to infineon 45A controller change....my thoughts

[DirtyGinge]

thanks Monkey

All sorted now...i used the dang GM connectors and wiring to connect up the infineon, so that I could disconnect and connect the GM controller if I had any issues, but I havent so im going with it...all connectors shrinkwrapped up properly...  and yup, pretty much as full on as a throttle can get, but not yet sure exactly where the short happened as the ebrake didnt kick in, I think based on that, it was more likely to be a ground break and short, as the ebrake is perfectly functional in all other conditions.....not a controller issue, just a drunk man with soldering iron issue......

now all the connectors  soldered and shrinkwrapped....credit where due though to Avid BB7 Cable disk brakes,.....they stop...period

heres one that make you laugh though....the embarrasing bit..

so I had the issue come up whilst standing on the road, stopped the wheel by brake, then the controller detected the fault condition and reset after 5-10 seconds....

Next time, I thought id be clever...hey this time ill test it on the grass, so if the wheel spins out, it will spin on the grass verge, and I wont risk burning out the motor...what can possibly go wrong lol....hmmm schwalbe big apple like traction with 18kg of battery weight...
Ginge wiggles cable pack, gets dragged 5 metres along this grass verge, unable to reach brake, before the front wheel meets nicely with a drain gulley, which was designed with the sole purpose of stopping front wheels........bike stops, Ginge stops, eventually ginge's chestnuts stop ( on the bar mind), and Ginge supermans over the bars to land gracefully on a nice soft grass cushion....lol

WIth power comes responsibility...the responsibility to wire the f^%£^ up properly in the first place lol..entirely my fault, but a good example of why you need to take extreme care with a controller and wheel that can handle this level of power...never have your hand near the wheel when testing, make sure you know where your kids are, don't leave unattended, etc etc

There is a power on/ off option on the controller that can be set to the controller switches off, this could be wired up to the light switch on the throttle killing the power in an instant...but if you wire properly, you would never have an issue.....



 

[Bikemad]

It was more likely to be a ground break and short, as the ebrake is perfectly functional in all other conditions

It's more likely to be a ground brake without any short. If you remove the ground connection from the throttle, there is no way that the throttle signal voltage can be pulled down to the correct level, and the ground connection from the battery indicator would be probably be much higher than the 5V supply to the throttle control hall sensor, resulting in an output voltage higher than the normal full throttle signal (>3.25V) regardless of the throttle position.

As all of the ancillaries usually share the same ground connection (throttle, pedelec, lights, cruise and power break switches), if a break was to occur on the main ground lead you would instantly have full throttle and no power breaking when the brake switches were activated, just like you've already experienced!

With the GM controller, it has a built in safety feature which prevents the motor from working if you turn the power on with the throttle activated. Returning the throttle to the off position automatically resets the safety device.

A poor ground connection on the GM controller can cause a strange problem to occur if the connection is broken when power is switched on. The motor will not respond to any movement of the throttle and the battery indicator would not light up, giving the impression of a faulty power switch or battery problem. This can become very dangerous if the wiring is wiggled enough so that the broken connection is temporarily made and broken again, causing the safety feature to reset and the motor to suddenly start at full power, and no chance of cutting the power by activating either (or both) of the brake switches unless the poor connection makes contact again.

Never underestimate the importance of good connections, a total loss of power due to a poor or faulty connection can be very annoying and cause inconvenience, but suddenly being confronted with full power could be very dangerous.
Picture the following scenario, you are waiting at a very busy junction with a lot fast moving traffic and your bike suddenly accelerates forward at full throttle without any warning!
Do I really have to explain how serious a situation like this could be?

Now might be a good time to rectify those dodgy connections you keep having to fiddle with in order to get the motor to run.

Alan
 

[DirtyGinge]

Hi Alan

No explanation needed, my crotch is still recovering..

All rewiring was completed last night......the biggest problem being that the wiring was done properly, soldered etc, but the wire used just has a habit of breaking just after the solder.....sound like any wiring we know ?? lol

One thing you never save money on in any vehicle,  is safety, no cheap tyres, no cheap brakes, hence why I went out early and fitted the bike with 180MM front and back disc brakes....they have the power to halt the wheel, probably burn the wheel out but better than a face full of bus....

A good lesson for all reading this post, experimenting and mixing stuff up is exactly that, always side with caution
 

[MonkeyMagic]

Gingey hey mate, for your connectors you could replace the GM ones and use something like this, that comes in a bigger size like this along with the sockets or these for the bigger ones.

The bigger ones are really easy to build up, smaller ones a bit fiddly so if you don't mind the bigger plug it fits bigger guage wire easy and you can slide heatshrink over all the solder connections. Once you solder it up, seal it with hot glue or epoxy and it will last forever

I've got this happening with all connections front to back, I'll use them for some battery balance wiring too.

anyways please don't blow it up hehe

[DirtyGinge]

Dont blow it up ? eh? where's the fun in that ?? how would the forum learn.,.....no indeed I have to sacrifice my ginger bits for the greater good ...thanks monkey, ill give them a looksie, but im laying off modding for a while, before the interior minister kills me ( el wifey)

little bit more info on the 1 wheel

efficiency a little bit less this morning at 10 ah for the journey..however if I drop down to average speed 17 instead of 19, and regen more, the 21 miles only takes me about 6 minutes more, but uses 7.5 ah instead of 10....got 8% regen back, 1/2 ah

uses about 12-14 amps to cruise at 20-25 mph.....didnt check the usage at 29, too busy trying to hang on...

the front feels scarily light now with a standard wheel on it, I don't know whether its due  to the lighter feel of the steering  or due to the back lifting the front up more......might counterweight it with a couple of kilo weights at the front, or fit a frame battery in the triangle, but it was raining this morning so I couldnt bring it...top road speed seems to be 29-30 on a single, on flat road, but slows down the acceleration at 27-30.....kinda hard to get amp speed ratings accurate, kinda hard to judge slight inclines...

all amp readings taken at 51 volts, so you can work out wattage from there

One more thing, on testing the windings with the controller in bag

Did 20 Second 0-30 accelerations up slight hills etc, starting at 45 amp, ending up at 25 amp for 20.... second runs,.......4 times, motor not warm, controller warm but not hot, and thats with it in a bag

Now the entire thread is only as always my experience and opinion..

p.p.s, I wouldnt dare put this on a front fork, unless you have done serious research into your forks

feel free for any more questions, will do my best

[rollin76]

Hi DirtyGinge how much amps do you think  the factory phase wires take safely? I am getting one of these controllers to but I would rather not have to replace phase wires if possible to get an extra few amps.

[DirtyGinge]

to be honest I don't know..sorry, never seen the factory phase wires...

I opted for scorpions verdict...alphawire ecowire 6718 ( I think).....600V 45 Amp rated, however ive only once felt them warm due to some bad bad wiring experimentation trying to get the phases right, blew every fuse in my battery packs, so god knows what happened, but ive put 55 amp through the alphawire and not even warm.... ( one handed up a hill, not funny)

the internal controller wiring that ive seen, with the mains input into the wheel didnt seem that bad to be fair, I would imagine 30 amps through those wouldnt be impossible, but your getting into alchemy issues with the contruct of the metal etc......

are you uk based ?

[Bikemad]

you could replace the GM ones and use something like this, that comes in a bigger size like this along with the sockets or these for the bigger ones.

Monkey, are those mini-DINs directly compatible with the original GM ones, or is the pin layout slightly different?

Alan
 

[Andrew]

I'm getting VERY close to finishing my rebuild !!!!! I will need some help from the drewmeister (Aussie for Andrew) to pick out some tassles, I just cant pick what color I want so I'm sure he'll give me some good advice being such an expert in that field hehe jks Andrew :D

TASSLES!!  my speciality,  don't worry Monkey I know my place

[rollin76]

Hi Ginge I live in Havelock,Ontario,Canada.About 1 1/2 hours north east of Golden motor canada.Only takes couple of days to ship if in stock from Gary hehehe.If it will take around 30 amps on factory phase wires that would be perfect I think.I have read your post but I don't see wheel size?I am assuming 26".Wonder what kind of performace at 48v 30 amp with 20" rear pie? I also have 26"front pie but will use mc for that as you stated it would not be good idea to use lyen controller on front wheel.Im kind nervous with stock front wheel setup.That would really suck if that wheel comes off doing 20 miles an hour.Its all monkeys fault.Looking at his sweet looking bike made me want 20" rear pie lol.I think 2 pie would be to much weight for me.I have been watching you progress with lyen controller and it sounds great the performance from 1 pie!Anyone know where to get 20" front wheel 36 or 48 spoke with disk brake mount hub?I have rim and disk brake hub just have to figure out spoke length,order spokes and lace wheel.Be nice to just buy one if possible.Saving for a lyen! rollin

[DirtyGinge]

well, what I found out today is that the 30A default  and 70 amps phase in the config file is for 72V, so in the first day or so, I reflashed and took away about 25% of the power, and never even bloody noticed ...default for 48V is 45 amps and 105 amps phase

I cant tell you about the factory phase, never seen the...sorry, but I used 12AWg, maybe someone else can weigh in on that front..

Im using 26"...150 Kg bike and rider......

Apart from the 0-5 and the 25-30 ....the range in between is just as much as a dual pie, no issues with me....to summarise, if I had this controller at the beginning, I would never have bothered with dual.....you have all you need

One thing I noticed when trying to get a replacement hall is the speed they can go at, and this may be important with a smaller wheel due to the higher RPM, I did source some UK hall sensors with 1KHZ switching, but the honeywell SS41 had a 10KHZ switching capability ( ffrom memory, but it was 10X the standard hall sensor)...with that much speed difference, even though I had only 1 problem with a hall sensor, I replaced all three to ensure the utmost accuracy and signalling

hope this helps, ...hope someone has some information on the factory phase

[MonkeyMagic]

you could replace the GM ones and use something like this, that comes in a bigger size like this along with the sockets or these for the bigger ones.

Monkey, are those mini-DINs directly compatible with the original GM ones, or is the pin layout slightly different?

Alan
 

Hey mate, they are unfortunately not... 1 pin difference lol
The smaller ones hold better than the GM ones, and the larger type are much easier to wire up etc.

[DirtyGinge]

there is a min din that you can get from maplin thats pin compatable...

regards

[Bikemad]

Monkey, are those mini-DINs directly compatible with the original GM ones, or is the pin layout slightly different?

Hey mate, they are unfortunately not... 1 pin difference lol

I've just been having a good look at those 8 Pin Mini-DIN connectors and they look the same to me (see attachment).

Alan
 

[MonkeyMagic]

Could very well be, mine are actually from Jaycar electronics Australia.
The type I'm using are audio connectors, all the pins are centered so it doesn't line up with the GM ones.