internal to external to infineon 45A controller change....my thoughts

[DirtyGinge]

you cheeky little fella

Honey arrived today, well packed in a very familiar avid box......well themed

give it 4-5 months, and we shall be swinging from the lantern on welsh honey

[MonkeyMagic]

,...its a bit too light at the front though, hopefully will rectify that later

Sounds like a frame shape batt pack is needed

Here's a suitable frame bag I've found for you...

lol Andrew that sure is a purdy bag there

Hey Ginge can you release your brew secret? Or is that kinda like the magician thing

[DirtyGinge]

Brew secret as in how to , or what ingredients ? or why am o so off the wall lol ?? for the honey beer ( wine for region 2) ??

[DirtyGinge]

ill do a post when I make the honey wine, a tribute to andrews kindness ( and a really nice honey jar)

[DirtyGinge]

Not much left on this post to be fair, I think ive given all apart from large large ampage .......still on 30 amps @ 48V ( 1500 watts), I just don't feel I need the power at all...i might increase for you guys for figs and stuff, but it is just perfect for me....poor front pie is gathering dust in the shed ( anyone in the uk wanna buy a front pie internal controller etc etc)
I did some cross country ...now bear in mind that the difference between battery current and phase current is that phase current is used as your startup current ( 0-5 mph),  and is generally 2.5 times the battery current)
cross country was mental......big  apples bouncing all over the place.......
there was one section, at least 45 degrees, and about 5 metres.....im at the bottom at 0 mph thinking hmm, I wonder..... and pow I hammered it, all the way up, and that dang motor  ( hell niosy ) just hammered me up....now the motor was the hottest its ever been for me, ( but not too hot to touch), but the controller was only warm ( in a bag)....dont think 20 meters of the same would increase the longevity of the motor, but even after 300 miles of the lyen , I was amazed.....
There are a few small things that are painful...throttle regen,  if you let go of the throttle, you get a sort of regen, this can be countered as described earlier in the post with resistors), but the cruise control sometimes is sooooo hard to get right....ive got mine set for 3 seconds, but you have to hold the throttle dang still ...sometime for 6-7 seconds, but if the road is bumpy, you cant get it righth every time, but apparently this is a 12 fet board problem only...90% oof the time its fine....at traffic lights on this settings , you can get locked into cruise at full throttle, so don't lend the bike to the girlfriend without disabling regen, but it suits me

would I change back to an internal/external GM controller..............neverrrrrrrrrrr.......kevin, whatdya think, havin  been on the donkey ........

[Bikemad]

The cruise control sometimes is sooooo hard to get right....ive got mine set for 3 seconds, but you have to hold the throttle dang still ...sometime for 6-7 seconds, but if the road is bumpy, you cant get it righth every time, but apparently this is a 12 fet board problem only...90% oof the time its fine....

If you have room for a 5K pot and a two way switch you could have a manually adjusted cruise control and simply switch between throttle and the last set cruise speed. You would simply adjust the pot to get the exact cruise speed that you want.



With a bit of ingenuity, it should be possible to rig up a single push button to activate a small crossover relay that would automatically switch off again when the brakes were applied. It would automatically return to the last set cruise speed when you pushed the button again.

With all that power, you'd have to be careful that you didn't accidentally switch on the cruise function from a standstill.

Perhaps you could use the throttle signal voltage to operate the relay via the push button so that the cruise function could only be switched on while the throttle was being used.

If you used a couple of diodes, you could have the cruise function working in conjunction with the throttle, so that each one could override the other.  This would allow you to increase the throttle to provide more power on steep hills etc. and then just release it to resume the set cruise speed, so you wouldn't need to reach for the cruise switch every time you want to quickly accelerate past slow car drivers and non ebikers! 

This should at least give you something to think about.

Alan
 

[o00scorpion00o]

Hi Guys,

Nice job dirtyginge!  

I hope you have some serious torque arms!!!


Now for the bad news about my Pie, I'm sorry to say but it was time we said good bye.  

I miss her already, I sold it to my friend Pat again lol. And he's in love with it!  

The ping is holding up very well with the abuse  I gave it, very pleased and no matter how hard I pushed it, all the cells balanced perfect every time.

Oh yes we did have good times together my pie and I.

By the way guys just make sure you have proper C rated batteries, I think for the pie 30+ amps LiPo is sure the way to go, both for many times the C and they are lighter, and you can configure them any way you want. I was scared at the thoughts of lipo, but my thread over on endless sphere ( I waant to go lipo ) gave me some great info on LiPo!

I just don't think I will go back to LiFeP04, sure it's plug and play, but that's no fun   and they are heavy. You can build a really cheap LiPo pack indeed rated at 5 C, ping was 2 C max!

I had my Pie @80 amps and it threw me off the bike first time I pulled the throttle, It was too much torque, but boy did she fly up hills! The infineon @40 amps was just fine!

By the way guys, I don't remember having problem fitting the eco wire and the cat 5 hall wires through? I didn't use insulation in the halls where they came through the axle, and shrink wrapped the rest of the way!


My intention now is loosing weight, and I have been cycling (no motor) and I am getting fitter every day, last week alone I cycled 75 miles in total, so not too bad and I'm loosing weight, brilliant, I need to!!!

Anyways Lipo is the way to go now I'm convinced, for me anyway and my objective this time is to have the power if I need it while keeping the bike light. I plan on using 2 bricks of 6S  8 amp lipo for 44 volts and it will weigh 2 kgs, a massive difference from the 10 kg ping. 20 amps LiPo would only be 5- 5.5 kgs!

So I'll pedal like the devil and only use the throttle to get me the extra distance.

Sorry dirtyginge, I don't mean to take over your thread LOL

Did you run your pie with 72 volts yet?

It's about time GM offered an external controller in a package that's suitable for mounting on a bike and that's capable of 40-50 amps, with usb interface too. They seriously are not doing themselves any favours making people find alternatives!

[DirtyGinge]

Scorpion , hi there
Welcome back!!
Dont even think you are taking over my thread....you did sooo much of this work before we were even here, this is your thread continued....many thanks for the experimentation and cost and time that you bothered to put in, to give the info to the rest of us, ( and you did put it in, I read it all )

(p..s I grew up in kilkenny ) slainte

I know what you mean about the drag though...dual pies nearly killed me on the cycling front... but the infineon with a 3 way swich is dang near close, set option 1 at 55-60%..not too bad, ...but the hills....sheesh

At the moment I have a "free" ( labour time involved) source of lithium ion 18650 cells, so I can build 16Ah batteries for the cost of the hours of labour if mine only ( thread to follow), so 2-3 of these gives me the current delivery I need, and yes, its a pocket rocket!!! what a controller...who would have thought a circuit board could wield such a difference .....

Not gone to 72V yet, the problem is not the battery, its the charger, and im flat broke... I need at least a 36V charger...one for next month when im bored lol

Welcome back .....cead mile failte !!

[o00scorpion00o]

Scorpion , hi there
Welcome back!!
Dont even think you are taking over my thread....you did sooo much of this work before we were even here, this is your thread continued....many thanks for the experimentation and cost and time that you bothered to put in, to give the info to the rest of us, ( and you did put it in, I read it all )

(p..s I grew up in kilkenny ) slainte

I know what you mean about the drag though...dual pies nearly killed me on the cycling front... but the infineon with a 3 way swich is dang near close, set option 1 at 55-60%..not too bad, ...but the hills....sheesh

At the moment I have a "free" ( labour time involved) source of lithium ion 18650 cells, so I can build 16Ah batteries for the cost of the hours of labour if mine only ( thread to follow), so 2-3 of these gives me the current delivery I need, and yes, its a pocket rocket!!! what a controller...who would have thought a circuit board could wield such a difference .....

Not gone to 72V yet, the problem is not the battery, its the charger, and im flat broke... I need at least a 36V charger...one for next month when im bored lol

Welcome back .....cead mile failte !!

Go raibh maith agat, dirtyginge     Agus tá fáilte romhat 


I'm from and living in Kildare! Where do you live  now?


Yeah it cost me alright, and the time, but It was fun and educational lol. There were times I wanted to beat the crap out of it, but She flew in the end, I miss the old girl! 


Free batteries is nice for sure!    Lipo is handy because I will be able to add or remove packs as required, I was thinking 12S 8 amp x2 in series for 44 volts. I was doing a lot of research because LiPo was scaring the bejesus out of me to be honest, But I think chargers are so good these days that fire can only happen through abuse and foolishness! That's the downside, the chargers are expensive and then you got to get a psu! I was looking at a Hyperion 1420i it needs a 24V 700+ watt psu. Expensive, but I should be able to charge in 30 mins or so, depending on balance of course! On the + side the 8 amp 44V setup should weigh only 2kgs! A major advantage for someone needing a light as possible bike! And the limited battery will make me pedal more, so I intend to use for the extra distance and the Hills.

There is a hill about 15 miles away in Laois, just beyond Carlow, Rossmore, and it's 1000 feet to the top, but it's up and down the whole way there and I'll be damned if I'm going to pedal up that!  I know no pain no gain, but I want to enjoy my cycles too and go where the scenery is better.


I think I remember on the endless-sphere forum someone going to 72+ volts and said the efficiency was crap because it was wound for maximum efficiency at 48 volts! So It will be interesting to see your results, I always wanted to go to 72 volts but I wasn't prepared to buy another 24 volt ping, too heavy! And then I would have had to set the infineon to work at 72 volts.


Anyway dirtydinge, keep the mods flying and the pies frying! 


Mark


P.S Is Leslie still around?

[DirtyGinge]

Hi scorpion

Yes its a lovely country for  sure, and I miss it too...living in london for the last 20 years.....but when I was growing up there it was cycle everywhere  ( I was in the country...wayyy in the country).........great...(except winters lol)

Good lipos have stablised massively, and if I was going to buy a battery it would be a 48V ping 20AH, using 18650 cells is a heavy option, but if you can get 32ah of 48V battery for 2-3 days labour then its hard not too lol, especially as my windsor commute is 50 miles a day ( its lovely, just like home, no houses for miles on the route.)

efficiency is really bad at the higher voltages...if I really hammer my infineon I will get 25-28 watts per mile, but at 72-84 volt, the efficiency is 50 watts per mile, and 100 V is closer to 75-100...but obviously they are there for the top speed...I wanna do it for the forum al your knowledge base, but as for me day to day 20-24 is fast enough, even though I can top 30 on 48v

Leslie had a ....erm....moment...last post or 2 is somewhere in the forums.....i don't think he was quite satisfied with customer services:D, has posted as a guest here and there...its a loss for sure, he was a wealth of information.......

[DirtyGinge]

Hi All

Just one of the last few updates, as I think we have covered just about everything I can think off

I turned off the "throttle Regen", altough I think its got a lot of plus points, I think its got a few more negatives, its a bit "unnatural" to a lifetime cyclist.....freewheel is freewheel since ive been cycling for the last 30 years, and this just counters every instinct ive had in that time

the setting in the Lyen software is "slip charge mode"....set this to 1 (true) and the throttle regen no longer works, only brake u regen...this is far more like the GM controller, you brake when you brake ...simples

I don't know if its me, but this controller does seem to freewheel easier ( or its the beer)

........

Andrew, as youve had 5-10 miles on the Winsorlayan donkey, and you have had dual pies for a while, I think the forum would appreciate your opinion as independent , it would be a good comparison........

[o00scorpion00o]

Yes its a lovely country for  sure, and I miss it too...living in london for the last 20 years.....but when I was growing up there it was cycle everywhere  ( I was in the country...wayyy in the country).........great...(except winters lol)

Good lipos have stablised massively, and if I was going to buy a battery it would be a 48V ping 20AH, using 18650 cells is a heavy option, but if you can get 32ah of 48V battery for 2-3 days labour then its hard not too lol, especially as my windsor commute is 50 miles a day ( its lovely, just like home, no houses for miles on the route.)

efficiency is really bad at the higher voltages...if I really hammer my infineon I will get 25-28 watts per mile, but at 72-84 volt, the efficiency is 50 watts per mile, and 100 V is closer to 75-100...but obviously they are there for the top speed...I wanna do it for the forum al your knowledge base, but as for me day to day 20-24 is fast enough, even though I can top 30 on 48v

Leslie had a ....erm....moment...last post or 2 is somewhere in the forums.....i don't think he was quite satisfied with customer services:D, has posted as a guest here and there...its a loss for sure, he was a wealth of information.......

Yeah It's a nice place alright when the sun shines 

50 mile commute? that's a lot. I wouldn't want to do 50 miles a day on a bike (mountain bike)  I hope the country roads there are much better than here, they are atrocious now after the last 2 winters, and they still use chippings and tar as a road surface! LMAO
It's a pity we don't have cycle lanes, as you really are risking your life on the roads here in the country! 

100 volts?  lol I would be way too scared! 

32 amps 48 volt is a big battery, I think if I were using a big battery like that I would use a trailer!


Yeah les is brilliant, he is super at the electronics, I know how he feels with customer service, or lack of lol


Mark

[DirtyGinge]

WEll, the roads here are like ireland......its not the road, its the bucket of a pothole that you miss.......its not that great where I live at the moment to be honest....2 of the same winters...and in the area that I am, apart form Scotland, its been the worst here....

Im lucky in that im on the outskirts of windsor...within a 5 mile cycle , im in the middle of nowhere

[o00scorpion00o]

WEll, the roads here are like ireland......its not the road, its the bucket of a pothole that you miss.......its not that great where I live at the moment to be honest....2 of the same winters...and in the area that I am, apart form Scotland, its been the worst here....

Im lucky in that im on the outskirts of windsor...within a 5 mile cycle , im in the middle of nowhere

Do you get back home much?

Same where I live only I ride 2 mins and I'm in the sticks too. I'm sure glad I don't live in a big town or city, I would crack up!

between the crap so called roads, cars and tractors it really could be a lot more fun to be honest. I wish there were such thing as cycle lanes here.
There is plenty of land to make proper paths and cycle lanes, but I suppose they would be worse condition than the roads! 


Mark

[Andrew]

i was lucky enough to take a 5 mile trek on Ginges' bike on the weekend so I feel it appropriate to make comment on his current set-up with the Infineoon 45A.

In bulllet points:
The pie motor can take abuse, it's a marvelous robust DD motor. Ginge is in a lucky position where battery packs are in abundance so having three 54v 20ah lithium-ion packs running, the options available are wide a nd varied.
The bike itself is a long distance 'donkey' as Monkey would say.  It is definately 'function first' for the 40 mile round trip commute that Ginge does on a daily basis.

He had the bike restricted to 26mph when I was there which I would not have the restraint to do if it was my bike . The take off was comparible to a dual pie on a 48v GM battery and magic controller, although off one rear pie.

The most impressive overall performance was hill climbing. I went up a steep twisting but short hill and the CA showed over 1600watts. The bike did not maintain speed it actually accelerated up the hill with a very strong pull until the hill ran out . The torque felt amazing!

Ginge will have to confirm how the CA and controller was set at that time.

The one thing that was noticable in a negative way compared with my own dual pie bike was the long pauses when engaging throttle after regen braking, as I have no regen on my bike and have forgotten how noticable this is.

 
He has a lot of finely tuned gadgets on his bike to keep him entertained during his long ride including a new pedelac system which helps mimic a more natural bike riding sensation and actually works well with different speed settings. However,   I'm not sure about that fat man's saddle, it gave me a saw Ar$e!

Overall, it's a GT long distance tourer which can be changed into a complete angry handful if you are feeling dangerous.  I personally would love to try the controller on 100% or over  but if the bike was mine i'd be hesitant letting it off the leash in someone elses hands.

Andrew