Author Topic: internal to external to infineon 45A controller change....my thoughts  (Read 57001 times)

Offline DirtyGinge

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Re: internal to external to infineon 45A controller change....my thoughts
« Reply #30 on: March 29, 2011, 07:34:05 PM »
ANOTHER DRUM ROLL PLEASE
Yup, I been sober for 2 days now....shocking, where did the winter go :)
ok USB change test done.....not road tested yet, have to wait till morning
freewheel spin before change, 30MPH
Freewheel spin after 120% change, 35MPH, so in freewheel, works about 15% speed difference...there is for sure a phase advance of some kind here....
My understanding is that you can set 3 overall power modes, that the throttle then control, so if your kids ride the same bike as you, you can limit their power, then unleash the fury once your on the bike drunk. ( just joking, don't drink and drive, your beer will catch flies n stuff in it as you drive)...all jokes aside, 3 of my closest school friends all died in Ireland in motorbike accidents through speeding and drinking over the years, so although I jest, I do know how serious it is......the entire purpose of this experiement is to determine the viability of a single pie with serious controller, over having to shell for dual pies etc....( sorry Gary, you know I love you ) ( p.s. my infineon landed cost about 111 uk pounds with USB programmer and a couple of requested connectors for regen and cruise disable...Mr lyen is very good at modifying your controller for what you need, voltage etc, no customs charges levied.. as strangely, customs thought it was a gift, dunno how the hell that happened ......strange world eh .....:o )
now ive increased the ampage to 35 amps batt, 80 amps phase....

Also, reduced cruise from 15 seconds to 5, it is a bit of a pain not having cruise button, but 15 seconds trying to hold the throttle still is just too much for 15 seconds

For anyone who has this and is annoyed by the throttle off instant braking, you can rig up a switch, with resistors in line, that feed just above 1 volt to the throttle when switch is on, the wheel will do one revolution every 30 seconds if lifted off the ground, but when driving, the controller doesnt think that the throttle has been let go, and wont regen until the brake is pressed....( please see electrobents post on how the controller regens both with throttle off and with braking)..cut switch and everything is back to normal....

batteries charging and waiting now for the same old bloody commute, for stats and road test of top speed etc....312 18650 cells charged and ready to unleash :)....p.s. webby, these are your new packs.......these are different fresh batteries, so may take a charge or 2 to come up to speed

Now if only I had a 36V charger, I could serial 2 batteries and see what this pie wants to do under 72V :)....hehehe


sales pitch......The Magic pie is a great contender in motor build and torque, for the speed that most of us want to travel at...if you want high speed motors above 40MPh a different motor may be a better choice, the pie is even rated as a motor on the endless sphere forums....so regardless of controller, I wouldnt hesitate to recommend it, however as always, please order from canada or a a local dealer with solid proven warranty.... :)...the internal controllers however might have a bit of reputation :S


right, where is the beer...
Infineon lyen edition 12 Fet
Goldenmotor Magic pie rear ....2000 Watt peak
oh yea.....Im too fat :)...but cute, oh yea, im cute

Offline Andrew

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Re: internal to external to infineon 45A controller change....my thoughts
« Reply #31 on: March 29, 2011, 08:11:23 PM »
you talk more nonsense when sober than when you've got a jar of honey in your hands :D.  Speaking of which, I've been trying to source some local honey to send. I spoke to the Chairman of the Cardiff and Vale of Glamorgan Beekeeper society earlier today. There maybe a few jars for the taking with any luck. I'm meeting up with him on Saturday,, fingers crossed. ;)

Offline DirtyGinge

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Re: internal to external to infineon 45A controller change....my thoughts
« Reply #32 on: March 30, 2011, 07:14:10 AM »
oooh, sounds good Andrew.....looks like you will be going into the mead business :)

Infineon lyen edition 12 Fet
Goldenmotor Magic pie rear ....2000 Watt peak
oh yea.....Im too fat :)...but cute, oh yea, im cute

Offline DirtyGinge

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Re: internal to external to infineon 45A controller change....my thoughts
« Reply #33 on: March 30, 2011, 07:26:09 AM »
crap, just lost my post..,...


right quick version then :),

4-5MPH speed increase in real world flat road, top speed increased from 25MPH to 30MPH, ( bit slow getting to the top from 27-30...)

Efficiency is same as, or slightly better than dual pies...10.5 ah this morning, even with the speed trials and 0-30 trials....

so unless from 0-4 MPH acceleration, or getting from 27-30 quicker is a must, a single pie with 40 amp controller is in my opinion a good equal to duals......

any questions that I havent covered ?
Infineon lyen edition 12 Fet
Goldenmotor Magic pie rear ....2000 Watt peak
oh yea.....Im too fat :)...but cute, oh yea, im cute

Offline MonkeyMagic

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Re: internal to external to infineon 45A controller change....my thoughts
« Reply #34 on: March 30, 2011, 08:07:52 AM »
Gingey my hat goes off to you

Lol you crack me up man, cheers for posting the stats - you sure sound like a happy bloke! :)

I'm getting VERY close to finishing my rebuild !!!!! I will need some help from the drewmeister (Aussie for Andrew) to pick out some tassles, I just cant pick what color I want so I'm sure he'll give me some good advice being such an expert in that field :) hehe jks Andrew :D:D

I have 2 x Turnigy watt meters + a motorbike odometer matched to my wheels so I too will be posting some data on dual slash single 20's since they are switched etc.

Good work mate your donkey is turning into a horse!

cheers

Offline Gapy

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Re: internal to external to infineon 45A controller change....my thoughts
« Reply #35 on: March 30, 2011, 08:28:53 AM »
dirtyginge, can you tell me a bit more on axle conversion to fit the wires for external controller through? What tools would I need? Something like DREMEL?
And how much there really is to grind?
Rear GoldenMotor Magic Pie
External Infineon 12fet Lyen edition
48V 20Ah LiFePo4
top speed: 48.6km/h
range: 55km at full speed

Offline Bikemad

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Re: To Infineon and beyond....my thoughts
« Reply #36 on: March 30, 2011, 10:37:10 AM »
Any questions that I havent covered ?

Have you tried any of the tests without the front Pie fitted?

Having experience how much resistance a turned off motor makes to pedalling manually, I can't help thinking that the additional weight and drag from the front Pie is having a detrimental effect on your test results.
It would be interesting to know how much difference a standard front wheel would make to these results.

It makes you wonder if the program could be modified to enable the controller to go even higher than 120%? :o
(see attachment showing my wishful thinking)
Changing the necessary resistors and using a 77.7V 21 cell lithium pack would be a good solution to those wanting more speed, 88.2V fully charged would still be below the 90V Maximum safe operating voltage.

Alan
 

Offline Bikemad

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Re: internal to external to infineon 45A controller change....my thoughts
« Reply #37 on: March 30, 2011, 12:20:31 PM »
dirtyginge, can you tell me a bit more on axle conversion to fit the wires for external controller through? What tools would I need? Something like DREMEL?
And how much there really is to grind?

Gašper, using smaller diameter wire it's possible to fit the necessary wiring without having to increase the slot in the axle, but apparently it's a bit of a squeeze, so is would be a good idea to remove any sharp edges from the sides of the slot using a Dremel or something similar:



Check out this post for more information on the wires.

Don't forget to run an extra wire through the axle for energising the relays, if you find it runs OK in Delta mode you might still want to do the relay mod at a later date. It should be OK to use the black ground wire for the hall sensors as a ground wire for the relays, provided the relays don't draw too much current.

If you get chance to take some pictures during the wiring conversion, then others will be able to see exactly how it's done. ;)

Alan
 

Offline DirtyGinge

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Re: internal to external to infineon 45A controller change....my thoughts
« Reply #38 on: March 30, 2011, 12:31:25 PM »
Hi sll

Gapy, in the end I managed to fit everything through the axle without mod, but its only just...the problems are....the circlips cut the wire insulation, so I put layers of shrinkwrap on the circlip where it pushes against the wire.....also if you use tools to push the wiring in, it will also cut into the insulation etc...so you need to push the cabling in to the corners with blunt tools,...the alphawire is reallly good, but the insulation is thin....a blessing and curse at the same time......i definitely would sandpaper the edges down there though, very sharp.........small cable ties within the bearing centre also placed to keep pressure off the circlips....fingers crossed

Hopefully tonight ill be able to fit the non pie front wheel, see how much difference it actually makes.....

I did ask Lyen about the voltages etc, he confirmed that this controller as is, modded for me, has a safe operating voltage up to 84V without resistor changes or modifications....so probably 2 packs in series ...9S 8P 18650's ....37.8 hot charge...75.6 .....should spice things up a bit

as for beyond 120%...there was significantly more heat in the controller this morning.... I wonder if its not an advance, but a voltage pull up internally in the phase ?, not sure though what mechanisms though, so just thinking out loud
Infineon lyen edition 12 Fet
Goldenmotor Magic pie rear ....2000 Watt peak
oh yea.....Im too fat :)...but cute, oh yea, im cute

Offline DirtyGinge

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Re: internal to external to infineon 45A controller change....my thoughts
« Reply #39 on: March 30, 2011, 09:18:27 PM »
right, front pie is removed, ( although disk brakes are grinding a lot, might take a mile or 5 to reshape the pads)....

so throttle up at full power, bike launches, front  wheel goes skyward lol, tomorrow morning at 5 AM is gonna be a lot of fun

What does the pie way , 8 KGS ? , plus drag ?......hmmm

Youll get your stats in the morning, provided I don't have another "gee goldenmotor controller wiring is crap, gee has the 5V really shorted with the throttle feed, gee, how do I disembed this luxurious gel saddle from the cavernous fjord that is my ass crack" journey.............thank god for large ditches that help to stop the front wheel ( not the back wheel mind) lol....shhhuuuuppppermannnnnn

p.p.ps...TO EVERYONE, make sure that your ebrake is the first think you wire up ALWAYS...this is your last line of defence in an instance as above.....

p.p.s Avid BB7 cable disc brakes really do lock up a wheel in emergency at 20MPH ( about £50 per set, and very god quality, also same pads as the juicy, so availibility is very good for new pads), it was a screecher...thanks very much to the farmers wife in Shurlock Row for  helping me to test them by just pulling out of your farm lane without looking right...my brand new big apple schwalbes have had their first scar...

rant over, but does anyone notice how stuff like this all happens on the same day ????
Infineon lyen edition 12 Fet
Goldenmotor Magic pie rear ....2000 Watt peak
oh yea.....Im too fat :)...but cute, oh yea, im cute

Offline _GonZo_

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Re: internal to external to infineon 45A controller change....my thoughts
« Reply #40 on: March 30, 2011, 09:51:17 PM »
Very good work and testing.

Can you tell me what is the Maximum/Medium amperage you are using during your cruising. And if the motor gets hot and so on...

Offline DirtyGinge

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Re: internal to external to infineon 45A controller change....my thoughts
« Reply #41 on: March 30, 2011, 10:03:56 PM »
ermm... off hand

up a hill at 18MPh, 16 amps

cruising at 20MPH......5-7  amp

heat at these speeds just isnt there in the controller....its not cold, but its not warm, ambient

I did a test today, stopped on a hill, held phase wires, then accelerated at full speed up the hill, well nearly fell of the back

but the alphawire ecowire never got warm....the controller in all of these experiments could only ever be described as slightly warm even with the 120% abuse..., but 120% seems to generate a lot more "warm" than 100 % ...ill keep an eye for some more average amp use for you tomorrow

with 35 amps current, 80 amps phase, you can get about 50 amps peak from the controller, motor has never been anything other than above ambient temps.( including when I shorted the throttle, motor jammed on full power and had to hold it with the disc brake....10 seconds of 35 amp push at 0mph...., scared me that one)...no warranty implied etc blah blah, just my experience

regards
Infineon lyen edition 12 Fet
Goldenmotor Magic pie rear ....2000 Watt peak
oh yea.....Im too fat :)...but cute, oh yea, im cute

Offline _GonZo_

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Re: internal to external to infineon 45A controller change....my thoughts
« Reply #42 on: March 31, 2011, 01:32:33 AM »

with 35 amps current, 80 amps phase, you can get about 50 amps peak from the controller, motor has never been anything other than above ambient temps.( including when I shorted the throttle, motor jammed on full power and had to hold it with the disc brake....10 seconds of 35 amp push at 0mph...., scared me that one)...no warranty implied etc blah blah, just my experience



That is very interesting 10 seconds at around 1600W and no smoke is very good news for my project. That means that provably can be used at 1000W continuously with out problems.
Any info you can give me on maximum abuse is good, thank you very much

Offline DirtyGinge

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Re: internal to external to infineon 45A controller change....my thoughts
« Reply #43 on: March 31, 2011, 09:41:20 AM »
on a flat surface - road wet though

15MPH               about 5 amps
18MPH               about 6 amps
22MPH               about 11-12 amps
couldnt do any more, too wet on the roads, and no pie on front to keep the traction........scary

to be honest , I bung around on a commute for over an hour at 22-25 mph, ( lots of small country roads slow down speed up etc running about 12-18 amps continous, motor doesnt ever get hot, not even yesterday when I had a short circuit and had to lock the back wheel with the disc brake,,....10 seconds at 45 AMPs with no movement in the wheel, I suppose as dangerous as it gets, but not hot on the motor.......wouldnt want to try that too many times, for sure

Its the best I can give you, will let you know if I can get some more data...your looking at 20 amps for how long ???

regards
Infineon lyen edition 12 Fet
Goldenmotor Magic pie rear ....2000 Watt peak
oh yea.....Im too fat :)...but cute, oh yea, im cute

Offline MonkeyMagic

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Re: internal to external to infineon 45A controller change....my thoughts
« Reply #44 on: March 31, 2011, 10:29:22 AM »
geez man short circuits??

throttle shorting to 5v feed?? what the

your donkey needs some love