internal to external to infineon 45A controller change....my thoughts

[DirtyGinge]

HI y'all

well heres the deal, im bored so its time to mess some kit up......

Ive ordered a Lyen 12 Fet controller from the states, 45A of 48V goodness for my rear pie....so I must change from an internal to an external controller.......But as I have a spare external controller ( carried in case of lightning strike etc), I thought that as I wait for the controller to arrive, I would change to the external controller for the sake of knowledge of the forum ( bows down in respect)...see what changes etc

now the infineon hasnt arrived yet, so this post will take a week or more to complete but I thought id get started....

[DirtyGinge]

So...today

I take out the old internal controller........

5 hall wires and 3 phase wires are inserted....45A alphawire ecowire 12AWG from rs components
( as recommended from scorpion)...dear sir, god knows how you got that in the axle, mines sticking out a little but, gonna have to go back and work on that...

wire up external controller on rear, plenty of air, 1 beer and a test run on the cycle analyst
Now this controller has never had the USB settings changed on it, as I fear, like many others, once you save, the controller sticks at a 15A limit, but maybe its just me
so, lowdown on internal to external GM controller.....

                                      internal                       external
average high amp                14.5                           22.5
peak highest amp                 17.5                          30.5

the stator ping is noticably louder, but the motor does have more torque, I can now go up hills that I could not before.........first long run tomorrow, and then all I have to do is wait for the infineon in the post ( tracking now)


ill give you all some more thoughts tomorrow after my 50 miles commute

[Andrew]

fantastic news!  a man needs a hobby    and your hobby is definately fun to watch as it develops.  I can't believe the difference between the internal/external controllers. I'm definately not changing any  paramenters in the future. can't wait for more trials and results.

As it happens I more or less finished a bike build today, now I must decide how to frnakenstein it with a bit of electricity.

Andrew

P.S I haven't forgotten about the promise of some S.Wales honey

[DirtyGinge]

Hi Andrew

good news on the bike build......

To be honest, the dual Magic Pies are great, and everything one could wish for, but driving through the areas where "road wars" is filmed, the front pie is attracting a little too much attention.....

But to be able to pop the front wheel off, I needed a little more...."shtuff" from the rear wheel...winter isnt too much of a problem as its always dark....

Im quite excited about the infineon.....i must admit the goldenmotor controller has many many useful features available quite easy like cruise control, the programmable features etc, but I just need more ampage......

the cycle analyst easily was hitting 1100W going up a hill, now we are talking

ill keep you all posted when the infineon arrives, I know what you need....

a...how much faster

b...how much quicker

c...can I wheelie


d...range/battery etc

having completed over 2000 miles on the pie, and with the config that I can switch each one off, I think I can give you some real world comparisons....

Mind you, one of my hall sensors has blown out, anyone know a good replacement in the UK.....im on pedal first mode at the mo....could be a wiring issue, will look into it when I get time

[MonkeyMagic]

wooooo sounds like exciting times

Hey Ginge a quick way to test those halls is connect the 5v supply on the halls then just use an led connected to gnd then positive through a 1k resistor. Spin the wheel and the led should flicker. If you don't see the led light at all its not switching. They are pretty hard to kill unless you exceed 5v or too much heat is around them.

Peace out

[DirtyGinge]

Hi Monkey

I had them multimetered....blue and greeen varying from 5 to 0 as expected, but yellow stuck at .68.....could be wiring I guess....anyway, move forward 2 inches and the wheel is off

[DirtyGinge]

Right then , monday morning -1Centigrade...yay

the peak amps above are incorrectm, as it seems my front wheel was kicking in occasionally, so control wire disconnected and this mornings journey conducted, but front pie is still on, so back has to push against it....however for pure apples to apples comparison

              distance         time          watts/mile           av speed          remaining voltage          ah used          peak amps
dual           21.5            1.04 hrs       27                     19                         51.0                           11.00               30.00                    ( 15 each)

single        21.5             1.04             27.5                  19                         49.5                           12                    26.5                   

points to note on single with  more amps

1....initial acceleration sluggish to 5mph

2....more controlled acceleration

3....fantastic to 22mph, then winds down at that point

4....on lower battery voltage, a bit less responsive

5...as we all knew, less efficient, but not by much

so the general thoughts are, if you know a single internal is not enough, but found the duals just too much, this is a nice niche in the middle....with hindsight, for my journey I might have gone with this option instead of the second pie....., if I wasnt so ....ermm.....curious about life ??.....it certainly can do it  ( although probably not with a GM battery)

I wouldnt fit these to front shocks though, im having to replace my suntour shocks after 2000 miles to replace with solid steels..... just too much wobble I guess

now the journey home ill have both pies on

?All I got to do is wait for the infineon now hehehehe ( Ginge thinks, maybe 2 infineons, one front one back....)

( I wonder, once this is all fitted, should I usb change the external to then see if it gets limited...seems like a waste but....)

[GM Canada]

                                     internal                       external
average high amp                14.5                           22.5
peak highest amp                 17.5                          30.5

Hi Ginge,

I was just wondering, when you give those stats on internal vs external amps. Has the internal controller ever been stabbed with the USB cable and were the settings saved.

Gary

[DirtyGinge]

Hi Gary

Never touched it with the USB cable whatsoever.....

Im tempted when the infineon arrives just to make a change and save it, just to prove it, however it seems such a waste as im sure some forum member might like to purchase 0n the cheap a proven controller....might just read the settings off to see what they are, but guesses are 48v with no regen

Gary, would it make any differerence in your discussions with GM, should I be able to prove with lots of data, the difference ?, in which case I might sacrifice it for all our benefit ?, still, not like they will replace all the controllers really , but ....

Controller doesnt get that warm at all with complete hammering ...26 amp peak so far, batteries arent lilking it that much

[DirtyGinge]

Well, it was the yellow hall sensor.....order  placed for 10 honeywelll ss41's, ( so if your in the uk and your stuck, I got spares)

anyway, running on sensorless at the moment....managed a peak of 28 today, yay, where is my infineon...

still im going to have to wait now for the hall sensor..
p.s. how the hell does anyone fit decent wires in the axle, can I trim the axle a bit ?

[DirtyGinge]

well new controller is delivered, not an awful lot bigger than the golden motor controller, but the cables are tidier..

Really frustrated now, could have been up and running in half an hour, if it wasnt for the sensor, another few days to wait...

batteries prepped, 312 18650 cells in 3 packs ready to feed any demand the controller has got

[DirtyGinge]

To be honest, I think I need a little more wire space coming out of the axle
How safe is it, on these axles, to either drill the centre hole out a bit, or grind another mm out of the middle, anyone done this ?, the wires are in but just a little tight....

I notice on some of the other motors, the wires exit the side through the axle, , wouldnt mind placing my hall sensors through the middle, a 2mm hole should do it,

Hall sensors are dispatched, looks like I could be running by the weekend .........

My thanks to Mr Lyen, who throughout the whole process has been very very helpful... I don't think ive sent one email that hasnt been replied to within 2-3 hours , even allowing for the time zone....does he ever sleep

There are some  benefits also from ordering a controller from Mr Lyen as opposed to Ebikes.ca, but I suggest that you contact Mr lyen direct for more details.....lyen@hotmail.com


ooohh, im excited......should be a great comparison.....

p.s. if your battery cannot deliver the amps, even though it may not cut out, the voltage will drop very quickly

regards

[DirtyGinge]

HELLLPPP...

Ive rewired the pie properly now, replaced all 3 sensors with honeywell ss41's ( nearest place the bloody netherlands)

on wiring the external controller, if I use the hall sensors, there is extreme vibration with the wheel turning, like its rubbing internally, and seems much much faster with not a lot of torque but if I disconnect the hall sensors, the wheel is as smooth as a babies......

tried differnet wiring combinations on the halls, no change

i did reconfirm, took a pic of the original halls, replaced as same, voltage readouts are all as expected ( after 1 more rewire due to a snapped wire)

anybody got any clues ?

got to go out on the bike morrow, I hope to have some infineon action by the end of the weekend, but as it does not do sensorless, if the hall sensor issue cannot be resolved, could be in for some grief.....

thanks all

[DirtyGinge]

infineon is in, configured, just charging batteries and connecting brakes etc.....

not long now, first run within the hour

[T5T]

Yes - now I'm really curious how this goes.

sitting here and tap`s with my fingers and waiting for results