Need settings and software for Magic Pie4, please

[Maya]

Hi Alan ;
.

Thanks for your reply. I join some pictures maybe can explain better than me, because I unmount my bike again to re-start all.

please tell me if I have right?

for the hall five sensor wires I simply  sold the sames colors, is that ? isn't it?  ( see the picture with the black connector with red tape)

thank you

[Bikemad]

If your Hall sensor wires are connected as shown above and they are connected to the correct colour wires coming from your motor then this should be correct (assuming that the new connector came with the new controller and you haven't changed the positions of the wires around within the connector to match the old connector).

Picture 3:
The four wires shown in this picture are for the pedelec and reverse, but I thought your pedelec wires were Red, Green and Black, not Red, Green and Yellow?

The Black wire has to connect to both the Black pedelec sensor wire and the return wire from your reverse switch.
 

You need to connect your pedelec sensor to the Red, Black and Yellow wires on the motor harness:

The Red from your pedelec sensor goes to the Red "+5V" wire.
The Black from your pedelec sensor goes to the Black "Ground (Battery -)" wire.
The Green wire from your pedelec sensor goes to the Yellow "Pedelec Signal" wire.

The unused Blue wire on the motor harness reverses the direction of the motor when it is connected to the Black ground wire.
Reverse is typically not used on a pushbike, but could be used on a trike, but you would need to wire in a separate switch to to allow Reverse to be activated easily when needed.

Picture 4:
Yes that is correct.

Make sure that the unused Red, Black, Yellow and Blue wires for the horn and lights are carefully insulated from each other to avoid any short circuits.

I hope this all makes sense to you now.



Alan
 

[Maya]

Hi Alan:

sorry I made a mistake, you're right the pedelec wire is red,green and black. I don't need the reverse, so the blue one I seal it?

In the picture of the connectors I just sold the same colors because the new black connector had small wires ( black, red,blue,green, yellow)  is not that logic?
there is not a gray wire like in your picture.

So I have to change the position of the new connector wires?

thanks a lot.
have a nice day.

Maya

[Bikemad]

I don't need the reverse, so the blue one I seal it?

Yes, carefully insulate the unused Blue wire.

In the picture of the connectors I just sold the same colors because the new black connector had small wires ( black, red,blue,green, yellow)  is not that logic?

Sounds very logical to me, hopefully it will be correct.

there is not a gray wire like in your picture.

Sorry about that, it was supposed to be green, I have just updated it to avoid any further confusion to others. Now it will only confuse me (and the other 6% of people who are also red-green colourblind)

So I have to change the position of the new connector wires?

Hopefully not, let's wait and see if it runs properly first. 

Alan
 

[Maya]

Hi Alan:

The picture with the order of the white connector wires that you sent me are the same positions and colors in the new black connector in my new controller
I'm confused because it's all that I did at the beginning just in case I will do it again. In the other hand I sent a message to goldenmotor china  and they send me the same picture ( see picture) with I began to install the new controller but they don't told me to change the phases wires , so ...
Do you think I have to change the phases wires? It's the only thing that I didn't do , unless the sensor pedelec is out of order, that can be a cause to not work?

thank you so much for your help 

Maya

[Bikemad]

I have said it before, but I'll say it again, "If your motor is making noises (but not turning) when you apply the throttle, then I think that either the Hall Sensor Wires or the Phase wires are not configured correctly for the new controller".

As the Hall sensors are wired to the correct coloured wires on the motor, then they should be correct.



I still do not know if your motor is making noises when the throttle is applied, but hopefully you do. 

If the motor is making noises (but not turning) when the throttle is operated, then the Phase wires will need to be tried in alternative positions (as per my previous post), but if there are no noises from the motor whatsoever when the throttle is activated, there must be another reason as to why the controller is not sending power to the motor. 

I suggest that you leave both of the brake levers and the horn/cruise button unit unplugged from the harness until the non-running has been sorted, and also make sure that the button on the throttle is not pressed in.

Alan
 

[Maya]

Hi Again:

well, this time I did all like  alan's instructions, all the wires were good installed.

BUT, when I plug the wires except the brake levers and the horn/cruise button unit, trike goes backward
        when I plug all wires except sensor pedelec, trike goes backward
        when I plug all wires except screen led, trike goes backward
        when I plug all the wires like the picture / diagram, trike goes backward,no noise (I think the noise I heard before was because I have the brake on )       
        when I push the speed throttle, trike goes backward, aswell when I pedaling backward

When I'm pedaling forward nothing happens, no assistance in all the cases.

ABOUT the blinking red light in the controller that disappears when the wires are plugged ( so I think it was blinking because I NOT plugged all the wires , it is possible ? )

Now , the led screen is always blinking ( don't forget that  I have a 24v battery, so the measurer is always full, when all is ok) and with only 1 blinking bar ( see picture).

The only thing I didn't tray yet is changing the phases wires, because I sent a mail to goldenmotor china but they didn't reply yet.

More ideas? 
I am going crazy 

thanks a lot.

Maya

[Bikemad]

When I plug the wires except the brake levers and the horn/cruise button unit, trike goes backward
        when I plug all wires except sensor pedelec, trike goes backward
        when I plug all wires except screen led, trike goes backward
        when I plug all the wires like the picture / diagram, trike goes backward,no noise (I think the noise I heard before was because I have the brake on )       
        when I push the speed throttle, trike goes backward, as well when I pedaling backward

When I'm pedaling forward nothing happens, no assistance in all the cases.

If you find that the motor runs properly, but is spinning in the reverse direction with the reverse switch OFF, then you will need to swap the Green and Yellow Hall sensor wires and the Blue and Yellow Phase wires too.

Swapping the wires as detailed above should return the motor to its correct default direction of rotation (forward).

If the motor direction is sorted by the above, the next remaining problem then would be the one you have with the pedelec only working when you pedal backwards, just like it did with the old controller.
We appear to be in virtually the same situation as we were when you first posted on the forum back in August. 

I am still puzzled as to why your pedelec now works when you pedal backwards if nothing has been physically altered on the chainwheel or pedelec sensor.

I am now wondering whether the torque sensor signal wire should be wired in parallel with the throttle signal wire instead of going to the pedelec signal wire.   

Are you certain that the pedelec sensor wiring was originally connected to the pedelec wires on the motor harness before the "accident" occurred? Or could the wiring have been previously modified to allow the Green sensor lead to connect into the throttle signal wire instead of the Yellow Pedelec signal wire?

Perhaps a brief explanation of the "accident", and some more details of the actual damage caused to the wiring and switches etc. may give us a clue as to what could have happened that might have caused this particular problem. Because I am still unable to explain what is actually causing this fault or how it has occurred. 

Unfortunately, I can't suggest a solution until I know what is actually causing the problem. 

I suggest that you concentrate on rectifying the motor's direction of rotation first, so we have one less thing to worry about. 

After re-reading one of your previous comments earlier in this thread, I think I may have discovered the reason why the display is not working correctly and also displaying the "Error 9" message:

I find a picture for a Magic Pie 5  ( because my new controller upgrade my Magic Pie 4 to Magic Pie 5 )and it's the same of my Magic Pie 4.

Please be aware that there are different versions of the BAC-601 Smart Display unit, and the MP4 version does not work with MP5 or MP Edge controllers. 

Are you sure you have purchased the correct version of the BAC-601 Smart Display? Because there are two different versions of the BAC-601, which are specific to either the MP4/SP4 controllers or the MP5/MP Edge and SP5 controllers.

If the BAC-601 Display that you purchased was meant for a Smart Pie 4, then it could explain why it doesn't work properly with your Smart Pie 5 controller. 

Unfortunately, your display worked fine the MP4 controller, but you have now replaced it with a MP5 controller, and from what I have been lead to understand, the MP5 controller requires a different version of the BAC-601 Smart LCD Display.

Perhaps you can email GM China and ask them to clarify the current position, as I don't know which MP4 or MP5 controllers are affected.

ABOUT the blinking red light in the controller that disappears when the wires are plugged ( so I think it was blinking because I NOT plugged all the wires , it is possible ? )

If the controller is not connected to the Phase Wires and Hall Sensors it regularly blinks 5 times while powered up.

If it is connected to the motor, but the control harness (or the throttle) is not connected, it will regularly blink 14 times.

Alan
 

[Maya]

Hi Alan:
sorry , I have a doubt about this:

 

If you find that the motor runs properly, but is spinning in the reverse direction with the reverse switch OFF, then you will need to swap the Green and Yellow Hall sensor wires and the Blue and Yellow Phase wires too.

I did understand the swapping of phases wires, but the green and yellow sensor hall wires, do you mean put the yellow with the blue wire from the pedelec ( which has 3 wires black, red and green) , instead with the green? ( see pictures)   please, tell me.

And I have to do it at the same time or first change phases wires, do test

change the hall sensor wires, do test or...

change both and do test?


Have a nice day.

Maya

[Bikemad]

Hi Alan:
sorry , I have a doubt about this:
 

If you find that the motor runs properly, but is spinning in the reverse direction with the reverse switch OFF, then you will need to swap the Green and Yellow Hall sensor wires and the Blue and Yellow Phase wires too.

I did understand the swapping of phases wires, but the green and yellow sensor hall wires, do you mean put the yellow with the blue wire from the pedelec ( which has 3 wires black, red and green) , instead with the green? ( see pictures)   please, tell me.

No, I mean swap (transpose) the Green and Yellow Hall Sensor wires so that the Green wire coming from your motor goes to the Yellow wire coming from the Black Hall Sensor connector plug, and the Yellow wire coming from your motor goes to the Green wire coming from the Black Hall Sensor connector plug:

The unused Blue wire on the motor harness reverses the direction of the motor when it is connected to the Black ground wire.

The Blue wire on the motor harness is nothing to do with the pedelec and must only be used for the reverse function.
This unterminated Blue wire must be properly insulated if it is not connected to an optionally installed "Reverse" switch.

And I have to do it at the same time or first change phases wires, do test

change the hall sensor wires, do test or...

change both and do test?

You must make the changes to both pairs of wires (Phase and Hall) before testing.

Alan
 

[Maya]

Hi Alan:

well, I did what you told me ( swap the green and yellow hall sensor and swap the phases wires)  this is the facts:

the option 5 of the phases wires works,( see picture) I mean when I push the speed throttle that goes forward, but when I plug the 3 wires from the pedelec
sensor ( black, red and green wires ) with the 4 wires (black, yellow, red and blue wires, I don't know how is named this. see picture) that goes forward when I pedaling backward and there is not assistance, of course now I know that my screen led doesn't work well with my new controller, so that would mean that's why I have no assistance , because I can put the assistance in the screen led (1,2,3,4,5) but that don't send the order to the pedelec?

So, Now the problem is how to do for have pedaling assistance, you can see a picture where is located the magnet from the pedelec and the old pedelec sensor that the technician cut when he installed the new pedelec sensor but he left the old magnets as you can see in the picture.


I was wondering if I could re-plug the old sensor pedelec ( see the picture) do you think it would works?

the cruise speed and horn botton it is necessary, because I never used?

Maybe we are near to find out the solution! I hope so!

Thank you so much.

Maya

[Maya]

hi again:


I was wondering if the broken springs have to do with the fact I have assistance problems?
Just in case I put a picture of my lastest controller setting ( I disable the reverse) by the way the others setting are ok?



Thank you so much.

Maya

[Bikemad]

To avoid any further confusion, please answer the following questions:

• Does the motor run properly in the correct forward direction when the throttle is used?
• Does the motor run properly in the correct forward direction while pedalling backwards?
• Has the replacement sensor been moved (or relocated) during (or after) the original "accident"?

I understand that the motor does not run at all while pedalling in a normal forwards direction. 

As the display unit is not compatible with the controller, I would leave it disconnected to ensure it doesn't affect the controller operation until the Pedelec has been sorted so that it works when pedalling forwards. The controller should default to the pedelec assistance level set in the controller with the display disconnected.

I was wondering if the broken springs have to do with the fact I have assistance problems?

The broken springs will not have any effect on the pedelec when pedalling backwards, as they are only compressed when a load is applied to the chain.
When pedalling forward, the broken springs will simply allow the magnets to move closer to the sensor at a lower pedal pressure than it would have before the springs were broken.

The original sensor would have allowed the motor power to be varied in relation to the amount of pressure on the pedal, but as the original sensor is no longer being used, the springs should not really affect the operation of the replacement sensor.

If the replacement sensor was supplied by Golden Motor, I would expect it to be a "pulse" type which connects to the pedelec signal wire.
The other type of sensor a "Variable Voltage" type, and that type would need to be connected to the throttle signal wire, which is why I previously asked:

Are you certain that the pedelec sensor wiring was originally connected to the pedelec wires on the motor harness before the "accident" occurred? Or could the wiring have been previously modified to allow the Green sensor lead to connect into the throttle signal wire instead of the Yellow Pedelec signal wire?

Perhaps a brief explanation of the "accident", and some more details of the actual damage caused to the wiring and switches etc. may give us a clue as to what could have happened that might have caused this particular problem.

With the Golden Motor Pedelec Sensor, if the motor works when pedalling backwards, the magnet ring is usually fitted incorrectly and needs to be turned around. See this post for more details.

Your setup appears to be using the original magnets from the original pedelec system, unless the plastic magnet ring was fitted but has somehow broken off during the accident.

It is difficult (from your photo) to see how the new pedelec sensor is attached, but as the magnets are not able to be reversed easily, I think you may need to reposition the new sensor (somehow rotate it 180 degrees?) so that the magnets move across it in the opposite direction.

I also see from your settings that the "Battery drawn current" is only set at 18 Amps, which is the default setting for a Smart Pie, the default setting for the Magic Pie is usually 25 Amps. If you have not changed this setting, I am wondering whether the controller has the Smart Pie firmware installed instead of the Magic Pie Firmware, which might explain why the wheel ran backwards with the standard Hall/Phase wire configuration. 
The Smart Pie, Magic Pie and Magic Pie Edge all use exactly the same controller, but they all use different firmware!

Alan
 

[Maya]

Hi Alan:

Thank you very much for your help.

To avoid any further confusion, please answer the following questions:
Does the motor run properly in the correct forward direction when the throttle is used?
Does the motor run properly in the correct forward direction while pedalling backwards?
Has the replacement sensor been moved (or relocated) during (or after) the original "accident"?

1= yes
2= Not, it runs in a jerky way.
3= well , when I was inspecting what was wrong with the bike  , I pushed the sensor but only a few centimeters ( 1 or 2)  because  there wasn't  place .

I understand that the motor does not run at all while pedalling in a normal forwards direction.

it's correct, there is not assistance, I pedaling I a normal way.

Are you certain that the pedelec sensor wiring was originally connected to the pedelec wires on the motor harness before the "accident" occurred? Or could the wiring have been previously modified to allow the Green sensor lead to connect into the throttle signal wire instead of the Yellow Pedelec signal wire?

Perhaps a brief explanation of the "accident", and some more details of the actual damage caused to the wiring and switches etc. may give us a clue as to what could have happened that might have caused this particular problem.

I Think there were connected to the motor harness, because the throttle have a  plug in the harness , no modifications.

The accident was  when after change of a tire in the from wheel a friend forgot to put a security brace in the wheel and when I was riding the wheel took off of the bike and the wires were ripped, like in previously pictures.

Your setup appears to be using the original magnets from the original pedelec system, unless the plastic magnet ring was fitted but has somehow broken off during the accident.

Yes, I'm using the original pedelec system, the goldenmotor pedelec is to small. I don't know if I can do something to install this.

Just in case it's impossible to change the position of the magnet that I'm using because they are fixed ( it's like a cap and bigger than the goldenmotor product not flat, see picture)

I also see from your settings that the "Battery drawn current" is only set at 18 Amps, which is the default setting for a Smart Pie, the default setting for the Magic Pie is usually 25 Amps. If you have not changed this setting, I am wondering whether the controller has the Smart Pie firmware installed instead of the Magic Pie Firmware, which might explain why the wheel ran backwards with the standard Hall/Phase wire configuration. 
The Smart Pie, Magic Pie and Magic Pie Edge all use exactly the same controller, but they all use different firmware!

Can I get the firmware for Magic Pie 5 somewhere. How can I know the firmware installed on my Magic Pie5?
Can I  change that in the settings( from 18 AMPS to 25 AMPS) in the software PI-800?  there won't be problems?
If you need more information please let me know.

Have a nice monday 

Maya

[Bikemad]

It sounds like the sensor may have been accidentally moved enough to upset its correct operation.
If you are unable relocate the existing sensor correctly, then fitting the GM sensor on the left hand side of the bottom bracket might be an easier solution, but make sure that the three arrows on the magnet disc are pointing in the forward direction of rotation as shown here:



Hopefully the jerky pedelec operation is due to the distance between the magnets and the sensor, which should reduce when it is being pedalled in the forward direction.

Can I get the firmware for Magic Pie 5 somewhere. How can I know the firmware installed on my Magic Pie5?
Can I  change that in the settings( from 18 AMPS to 25 AMPS) in the software PI-800?  there won't be problems?

Reset the the Battery drawn current to 25 Amps, and if the motor runs correctly then it probably has the correct firmware installed.

If you find it is not as powerful or as smooth as it was before, it might be the wrong controller/firmware, but don't worry about that now.
My original MP5 controller had a sticker on the outer cover clearly stating it was a MP5 Vector 25 Amp controller:



But yours does not appear to have a sticker. 

Unfortunately, there is no way of checking what version of firmware has been flashed to your controller, the software for reflashing the firmware simply overwrites the existing firmware that is already in the controller, but I believe the flash update is only supposed to be used on Magic Pie 5.3.1, Smart Pie 5.3.1 and Magic Pie Edge controllers, so you would need to check your controller version before attempting to overwrite the existing firmware.

As this is a new controller, you would also need to check with your supplier whether the firmware needs to be updated.
If it does, they should be able to supply you with the required software and files to reflash the firmware using the USB programming cable.

Alan