3kw Non-hub Moped Conversion help

[Bikemad]

I tested the hall sensor wires without the throttle plugged in and got these values when I moved the motor.
Blue - 2.86vDC
Yellow - 2.86vDC
Green - 2.86vDC
Red - 4.95vDC

This might sound like a stupid question, but did you have the Hall Sensor connector plugged into the controller while you were checking the voltages and moving the motor? 

If the Hall Sensor connector was definitely connected, then those fixed 2.86V readings would seem to indicate that all three Hall sensors inside the Motor may have also been damaged in addition to the original Throttle Hall Sensor, and if they are no longer working, they will also need to be replaced. 

The Hall Sensors in the motor are not the same type as the Throttle Sensors, and Honeywell SS41 (or equivalent) should be used for the motor.

I soldered the hall sensor back into the throttle and tried to reassemble the throttle again. Some good news is that it appears that my throttle is not making the voltage go down anymore in the red hall sensor wire was 4.95vDC after I plugged in the throttle to the controller and hooked up the batteries.

Did you check whether the throttle output varied between 0.8~1V with the throttle released and >3.25V at full throttle?

Does anyone know if I would have to take the new throttle apart again to remove the LED power display so that it doesn't short the hall sensor again?

The LED power display should not be able to short the Hall sensors, running a 48V LED power display on 72V should only cause problems with the power display circuit board components or the LEDs.

If the new throttle has a separate unterminated wire to power the LED Battery Gauge, then you simply insulate the end of the wire and leave it disconnected:

All that aside I still get 5 Blinking lights when I plug in the throttle... hence why I am frustrated. I guess I have to keep playing with the software till it doesn't blink when the throttle is connected?

You "still get the 5 Blinking lights" because the Hall Sensor input from the Motor is still abnormal (or the Hall sensor connector is disconnected), and you will continue to see the 5 blinks until the problem with the Motor's Hall Sensors has been rectified. Changing the software settings will not affect this particular fault code.

As the Hall Sensors were obviously all working correctly originally, something has subsequently killed all four Hall Sensors (Three in the motor and one in the throttle unit):

I hooked everything up yesterday and it worked!... for 3 seconds. Now every time I turn on the switch on the throttle grip the contactor turns on but the motor doesn't turn over at all.

Apart from a common ground connection, the only other thing the Four Hall Sensors have in common is the +5V feed. So I am guessing that the +5v supply has somehow been subjected to full battery voltage, which would explain the death of the Hall Sensors. Although, I am surprised that the 5V regulator inside the controller has survived the ordeal, perhaps it has some form of diode protection on its output for this very purpose. 

I suspect that either your throttle was subsequently wired up slightly differently (supplying battery voltage to the Throttle signal wire instead of the battery gauge wire) or exposed wires/connections have been allowed to touch against each other causing a short circuit between a battery voltage (Brown and Yellow switch wires?) and the +5V wire.

If the throttle has never been connected incorrectly, then I suggest you carefully check inside the throttle unit to see if there are any signs of damaged or uninsulated wires that could have touched against each other,

Make sure that your new throttle is definitely wired up to the controller correctly, as I'm sure you won't want to experience all these problems again.

Alan
 

[Tommycat]

As far as the throttle is concerned... why go with something with unusable LEDS? How about something capable of showing your actual battery voltage, with a nice key switch?   




http://www.electricscooterparts.com/throttles-72-volt.html

Or if you prefer, just a regular switch, or full length twist throttle, ETC...  Lots of different types out there. (of course it has to fit the handlebars...  )

[Knightgreider]

Hi Tommycat,
I should have specified that I was turning the motor and weren't fixed to those values. I got values from 0-2.86ish... when I turned the motor for the Blue Yellow and Green cables.

I am going to wait and see if this new throttle makes a difference, if not, I do like that one from the Electric Scooter parts website. Since I screwed up reassembling the old throttle I didn't get to see if the throttle output varied between 0.8~1V with the throttle released and >3.25V at full throttle. So I will hopefully be able to do that when I get the new throttle. When I test the new throttle, would I just put my voltmeter into the plug as I did with the hall sensors like before to see the voltage of the throttle?

You "still get the 5 Blinking lights" because the Hall Sensor input from the Motor is still abnormal (or the Hall sensor connector is disconnected), and you will continue to see the 5 blinks until the problem with the Motor's Hall Sensors has been rectified. Changing the software settings will not affect this particular fault code.

As the Hall Sensors were obviously all working correctly originally, something has subsequently killed all four Hall Sensors (Three in the motor and one in the throttle unit):

Apart from a common ground connection, the only other thing the Four Hall Sensors have in common is the +5V feed. So I am guessing that the +5v supply has somehow been subjected to full battery voltage, which would explain the death of the Hall Sensors. Although, I am surprised that the 5V regulator inside the controller has survived the ordeal, perhaps it has some form of diode protection on its output for this very purpose. 

I did a visual inspection of the throttle when I took it apart and found a slightly burned white wire which could have happened before I opened it. However, it also could have been when I unsoldered it from the original hall sensor as I am unsure about this there is hope. After explaining that it was a range of 0-2.86v would that still mean that the hall sensors are dead? Do you think the hall sensors could still be screwed up even after I resoldered the throttle? I am really hoping it is just the throttle that is the issue.

If the throttle has never been connected incorrectly, then I suggest you carefully check inside the throttle unit to see if there are any signs of damaged or uninsulated wires that could have touched against each other,

I triple checked to see if it was all hooked up correctly the first time when I turned it on, the contactor turned on and then it turned over for a sec as I said. I am really hoping it was something dumb that I didn't do.

Coming up: Hook up the new throttle, test all voltages, see if there is the hall sensor LED blinks, (as they only appear now when I hook up the throttle.).

If there is still a problem buy the electric scooter parts throttle. Hook it up.

If working, look for chargers that charge a 10s Lithium ion pack and hook it up to an Anderson connectors (as that is what I have on my plugs).

[Bikemad]

I got values from 0-2.86ish... when I turned the motor for the Blue Yellow and Green cables.

I presume you mean the Blue, Yellow and Green Hall Sensor Wires (not the Blue, Yellow and Green thick Phase cables) but were these readings taken with the throttle plugged in or unplugged?

When I test the new throttle, would I just put my voltmeter into the plug as I did with the hall sensors like before to see the voltage of the throttle?

Yes, measure the voltage between the Throttle Signal wire and the Black ground wire.

After explaining that it was a range of 0-2.86v would that still mean that the hall sensors are dead? Do you think the hall sensors could still be screwed up even after I resoldered the throttle? I am really hoping it is just the throttle that is the issue.

If they are all switching high and low they are probably OK, but I'm puzzled as to why they are not switching higher than 2.86V.
Perhaps this is just a quirk of the VEC-200 controller. 

Hook up the new throttle, test all voltages, see if there is the hall sensor LED blinks, (as they only appear now when I hook up the throttle.).

It is not a "Hall Sensor" LED, it is there to give visual feedback from the controller for a variety of possible errors:



If you are still getting just 5 blinks (but only when the throttle is connected) you should re-check the voltage going to the +5V Red Hall Sensor wire on both the Throttle and the Motor to see if it either has dropped significantly from the previous 4.95V.

However, if you were getting 12 blinks (but only when the throttle was connected) it would make a lot more sense. 

Also, if you don't have chargers for your battery packs, what is the battery voltage reading when connected to the controller?

Alan
 

[Knightgreider]

Hey Bikemad,

I presume you mean the Blue, Yellow and Green Hall Sensor Wires (not the Blue, Yellow and Green thick Phase cables) but were these readings taken with the throttle plugged in or unplugged?

Yes, the hall sensor wires with the white plug coming from the controller into the black cable into the motor.

If they are all switching high and low they are probably OK, but I'm puzzled as to why they are not switching higher than 2.86V.
Perhaps this is just a quirk of the VEC-200 controller. 

Maybe they might be around 3vDC but from what I see I couldn't keep the motor turned that way to get that value. I think I might have seen 2.95vDC at some point?

It is not a "Hall Sensor" LED, it is there to give visual feedback from the controller for a variety of possible errors:

Right. I didn't know the proper word to say, sorry about that. 

If you are still getting just 5 blinks (but only when the throttle is connected) you should re-check the voltage going to the +5V Red Hall Sensor wire on both the Throttle and the Motor to see if it either has dropped significantly from the previous 4.95V.

However, if you were getting 12 blinks (but only when the throttle was connected) it would make a lot more sense. 

I will check the voltage tonight. 12 blinks would make more sense for the throttle error. I get the new throttle tomorrow so I will definitely check the voltage then as well.

Also, if you don't have chargers for your battery packs, what is the battery voltage reading when connected to the controller?

I should have specified earlier I charged the 18650s with an individual cell charger. Right now the voltage going into the controller last week was 79.9vDC. I have been researching but will continue to research. Reddit recommend https://www.amazon.com/Schumacher-SE-1010-2-Manual-Battery-Charger/dp/B0002YR83Q

[Bikemad]

Reddit recommend https://www.amazon.com/Schumacher-SE-1010-2-Manual-Battery-Charger/dp/B0002YR83Q

That 12V automobile charger is no good for a 36V lithium battery, you'll need one (or two) like this 36V 5A lithium charger.

You can either connect both packs in parallel for charging with a single 36V charger as shown here:



Or use a separate charger for each pack.
Charging time will probably be 4~5 hours on a single 5A charger, and approx 2.5 hours with a pair of 5 Amp chargers.

If your batteries do not have any form of BMS, I would suggest using four cheap battery monitors (along with a 10A diode in series with the charger positive output wire to drop the voltage slightly to help reduce the likelihood of overcharging the weaker cells.

I presume you are using 3500mA 18650 cells, but what make of cell are you using and what is the maximum continuous current that they (or their BMS) are capable of delivering?

Alan
 
EDIT: Series/Parallel connector diagram added.

[Knightgreider]

Bought another throttle and it worked!!!! Hooray!

Now, I don’t know if I should hook the contractor back up? If I do, do you think it will short the throttle again?!

Thanks everyone for all your help!! You guys rock!

[Bikemad]

It's good to hear that it is now working again.

The Brown and Yellow switch wires should be completely separate from the throttle Hall sensor, so it should not be able to "short the throttle".

But if you're really concerned about killing another throttle control, you could use a separate key switch (instead of the throttle switch) to energise the contactor. 

Alan
 

[Knightgreider]

Here's my Instagram video of it starting.

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bqnaow0no4Q/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet

I did buy a keyed switch and will add the contactor. I am currently waiting for my 72v-12v converter so I can start building the preferals into the bike, like lights.

Where does the brake light lead come from when I hit the brakes? Does the controller plug need to be spliced? I am totally lost on how to add that.

Thanks again everyone, so excited!

[Tommycat]

Glad to see your making progress in the forward direction! 

If your going with a contactor, perhaps this is a good time to bring up a pre-charge resistor and spike suppression diodes. Seems like reasonable precautions withsuch a powerful system. Read this and see what you think...

http://zeva.com.au/Tech/ContactorJewelry/

Just thought I'd bring it up while your building. Your system will work with-out them, but like the article says... they will increase the longevity and add a level of protection for components.

[Knightgreider]

Hey everyone,
I hooked everything up today with a turnkey elock instead of the throttle elock. I think my contactor is broken, because nothing happened when I turned the key. No click on the contactor like last time and the motor didn't turn over. I tested the voltage to the contactor and got around 79v. I wired a switch that is a closed loop, to make sure it wasn't the turnkey and still nothing. Does anyone know if I should buy another contactor and what the specs of it are? When I bought the kit, it wasn't very specific that I see on my receipt. Would I be able to exchange that even though I bought it in August?

Another question I have is, I am wiring up a 72v to 12v step-down converter. Would I just put that on the cable after contactor that goes into the controller? If so, how would I wire it up? The pictures are attached.

Thanks again for your help!

[Bikemad]

If you can measure 79V across the two small contactor terminals (thick Black and thin Red wires) and the contactor does not click, then the contactor is likely to be faulty.
Check with your supplier regarding the warranty on this item.

Also, the exposed terminal of the thick black wire on the contactor appears to be very close to the main positive contact. If these were to touch each other, it would effectively cause a direct short across the battery supply wires when the contactor switches. 

Regarding the step down DC-DC converter, connect both the thin and thick Red wires to the battery + on the controller and connect the thin black wire to the battery - on the controller.

The thick Black output wire will be the common ground connection for your 12V system, while the thick Yellow wire will be the supply for your 12V system.

Alan
 

[Knightgreider]

Thanks BikeMad!

I will be hooking that up after I figure out where and what all the components are going to be. In the meantime, here is my build from yesterday. I got to ride it! Despite not having any brakes or a seat. Haha.


Happy new year!

[Knightgreider]

Hey everyone, what has everyone else made for a graphic user interface for speed, voltage, and other stats while riding?

[Knightgreider]

Hey everyone, trying to figure some nitty gitty stuff as the project approaches completion.
So, I think when I was testing my initial build with my contactor I might have had the wires in the wrong order. Now I am putting it together, hopefully for the second to last time, I am concerned about the contactor shorting out the system like last time. How can I separate the positive and negative terminals of the contactor shown below? (The first pic with the orange object) Also, do you think I should buy rubber grommets to separate the contactor from the frame?

I also attached an overall image of the bike. Do you guys recommend trimming the hall sensor cables? How would you attach the cables to the frame?

I don't really have access to anyone who can build a custom cover for all my components, so I cut out the old gas tank and am trying my best to let it fit over the batteries. I want to make all the cables as clean as possible as some of them will be exposed.

I also need to custom build a seat.

Thanks for your help!