My Magic Pie went dead (Pairing Magic pie with ecrazyman 1500w controller)

[Avantgarder]

Hi All,

I bought my Magic Pie directly from Golden Motor 2 months ago.
I can't tell how I adore it. It's green and ...it's mean.
I even sold my car since.
Unfortunately today it suddenly stopped working.
Battery is full but throttle has no response. What really worries me is that the wheel seems to rotate with vibrations and resists rolling as if an aggressive regenerative braking is activated.
1. How can I tell if the motor is dead/burnt ?
2. If the motor is dead, do I send it back to the company ?
3. What is the reason for such a thing to happen ? It happened in a very cold weather while riding on a plane.

Please help

[Avantgarder]

I started removing the motor caps.
I read that there is no need to remove the cassette.
The cover on the side of the cassette went loose  in a second and there is a few mm gap.
The other side where the cable comes out seems to be super glued. No movement what so ever.
I read in some threads in this forum that I need to hammer it with a wooden or rubber mallet. I could not understand where exactly to hammer.
On the stubborn cover ? On the tip of the axis on the cassette side ? I'm afraid the aluminum case will brake

[Bikemad]

Hi andto the forum.

I suspect that your speed controller has probably failed, but you didn't mention whether you have an internal or external controller.

If it's an external controller, you can simply unplug the three thick Green, Blue and Yellow phase wires from the controller to see if the wheel turns more easily again. If it does, the speed controller will need to be replaced.

Unfortunately, with the internal controller you cannot easily perform the same check, but I'm guessing that the controller will have failed and will need to be replaced anyway.

Send an email to David at GM (wyh@goldenmotor.com) explaining that your motor has stopped working and is now stiff and notchy to turn, and ask if he can send you a replacement controller. Make sure you give him your purchase details so he can confirm that it is still within warranty.

There is no need to remove the cover on the brake disc side to access and replace the internal controller.
If the cover is already loose on the freewheel side, you should be able to gently pull on it and wiggle it from side to side until the bearing and casing eventually slide off the axle (or sometimes the bearing stays on the axle and the cover comes away without it) exposing the controller as shown below.





To replace the controller:
Take a decent photo, or draw a diagram showing all of the wire colours and exactly where they are connected on the controller's Printed Circuit Board (PCB).
De-solder all of the wires connected to the controller's PCB, but try and keep them roughly in the same place.
Then remove the three Allen headed bolts securing the heatsink plate to the stator.
Then gently slide the old controller out from under the wires and slip the new controller back in under the wires into the required position.
Replace the three Allen headed bolts and then carefully solder each of the wires onto their correct contacts on the PCB.
Refit the side cover and replace the fixing bolts ensuring the machined lip on the cover locates correctly inside the machined face of the magnet-ring assembly before finally tightening the fixing bolts.

Please keep us informed of your progress.

Alan

[Avantgarder]

There is no need to remove the cover on the brake disc side to access and replace the internal controller.
If the cover is already loose on the freewheel side, you should be able to gently pull on it and wiggle it from side to side until the bearing and casing eventually slide off the axle (or sometimes the bearing stays on the axle and the cover comes away without it) exposing the controller as shown below.

I have an internal controller and I actually consider buying an external one.
It would be great if anybody can recommend a brand that can be purchased outside the US, considering I only care about reliability. The performance of the stock Magic pie is more than enough for me. An external controller would give me the ability to handle it easily without having to disassemble the wheel.

As for opening the motor, lets go step by step:
1. The cover on the freewheel side is loose and shows a gap of 4mm.
     It doesn't go completely off because the cassette is blocking it.
2. You say that there is no need to remove the cover on the disk brake side (I actually have no disk brake but it doesn't matter).
    This is kind of strange because the cables go in on this side...

I conclude from 1+2 that the cassette needs to be removed in order to access the controller which is on the cassette side. Right ?

By the way...
Amazing forum you've got yourself.
Nice to know that there is a green caring Golden Motor community 

[Morgen 3Eman]

As a retired equipment engineering manager, I must warn you:  Disconnect the battery before you do anything to the motor. 
 
TTFN,
Dennis

[Avantgarder]

As a retired equipment engineering manager, I must warn you:  Disconnect the battery before you do anything to the motor. 
 
TTFN,
Dennis

Sure ! You can't work on the bike with the heavy beast on it anyway

[Andrew]

if you cannot get a replacement internal controller from GM I have one here in the UK that you can have, if you are up for the job of fitting it. When I removed it from my PIE it still worked.

There are tutorials on this site somewhere showing(i think) how to change from internal to external, but the external controllers can fail as well. 
Andrew

P.S when my external GM controller died the wheel did exactly what you have described above.

[Avantgarder]

Thanks Andrew for your offer. I'll keep it in mind.
By the way... I loved you photo !

[Avantgarder]

I took controller off the motor.  The motor is now smooth as silk.
It has the quiet electrical hum resistance but there is no notchy feeling anymore.
It was actually very easy to take the controller off:
You just take the Allen bolts on the flywheel side and strike with a rubber mallet on the tip of the axis on the same side ( flywheel side).
So the bottom line is :  I need an external controller.

Now the question is whether I can settle on the one below or should I buy a more fancy one.  Again, reliability is all I care about.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/72V-1500W-brushless-controller-E-bike-scooter-/260847229409?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cbbb4d9e1

[Leslie]

You wont get much fancier then this for the price.  I own one and its a dream come true.


If you buy this, you can send a message to Ecrazyman and for a little extra cost, Ecrazyman can install a few extra customized features and make setting for you to make this easier or look online for the Ecrazyman mods.  There is plenty to be had.

I beileve it interfaces with the latest Cycle Analyst, it can do both braking form regen and Back off from accelerator regen. Speed limit , there is a means to interface and change the settings with software, there is even a speed setting upto 120% which can behave a little umm on some bikes.  Has proven in the feild low resistance 100v fets. Can handle up to 4000 watts.  Any-volt-able from 36v up to 72v anc can be modded easily to hanle up to 86v but some extra modding is needed to get regen to work above 48v as this limits regen voltage to 60v.


The Magic controller are by software in some areas more advanced, quite ingeniuos and is perfect for most uses, but this controller you post is for people who might want to go that little bit further, it is a very solid design and tested by many users, rich with hidden little features people seem to keep finding mods for..  Ecrazyman has a very good user reputation at Ebay and among the larger Ebike community.

For 48v system this is an near to ideal off the shelf controller.  I had to cut a shunt out of it as my bike was popping wheelies it was so powerful, and it might hurt your battery because it's too powerful., to fix this took me a few minutes.  The Magic Pie can and had handled everything this controller has put to it.

There are bigger controllers with 18 fets but this isnt need for the Magic Pie. 

For me and my 48v pack, all I did was enable both throttle and brake switch regen, pull a 20 amps shunt out of it, (cut it) and installed the thing and it has served me very well.

[Avantgarder]

OK Les. I'll buy it.
What really got me is that you end up with hardware capable of delivering twice the current you actually deliver =  reliability.
Do you know if he sells chargers too ?

[Leslie]

He sells a lot of things that is not on his Ebay web site you an ask him on the ebay ask seller question.

Us simple questions, and maybe in number for, Keywin Ecrazy does speak english but he may fail to respond to walls of words not unlike GM..

State what you want.  You could even ask him to limit the current via software too but this is rather hard to change back.

He sells the interface connection to the software and may install a CA connector if you ask nicely..  It will cost you extra for added stuff, but his work is good and neat.

[Leslie]

I just took it appart just now to inspect how this single shunt was performing under heavy loads. I thought the resistance may be a little high for the weights I drag in my trailer and maybe I would find signs of heat around the traces or shunt.



It seems to be a worth while post and picture even though this was a very simple to do modification.

I'll call it the Pussy Ecrazy mod. I thought I cut the shunt it seems I totally removed it. I know I cut the shunt on the old sensorless controller, it's been a while since I did this.

No sign of heat on the other side either. This Controller has been used a lot and towing heavy loads in trailers. I even tow adults on 20km rides in my trailer up hills down hills using the regen for added braking power.

I will warn, this controller without the above modification will eat most batteries under 20ah-25ah alive and leave them useless in no time at all. unless you have very good more expensive batteries

Recommendation off shelf no modification.

20ah 36v battery
25ah 48v battery

With mod.

36v 10ah battery
48v 15ah battery

Best use, is with shunt removed with 48v 20 ah (cheap cells.)

The GM LiFePo4 cells prolly perform a little better under load than my pouch cells. The 10ah pack would last 800 cycles under normal rider conditions.



^^^Pouch cells ^^^ 


I give no promises nor will GM give warranty.

[Avantgarder]

Regarding the Ecrazy Pussy-Mod (should be marketed in pink ?) ,You say...

"With mod.
36v 10ah battery
48v 15ah battery"

1. My 48V LiFePo4 is rated 10AH. Seems that even after the mod my Battery will be too weak to handle this controller...
2. In the picture you uploaded, in the circle there is a curly wire leftover. What is it ?

[Leslie]

Yes 10ah is a little on the small side.  But I would guess because they are canister cells and not pouch cells like mine they would be more robust.  The cells are rated at 800 cycles. My recommendations are a rough guess and conservative. There are people running much higher currents to 40 amps from 10 ah headway cells..  At 2.5C you just shorten the battery life a little.  Say from 1000 cycle life to say 800 cycle life MAYBE.. ;-D  You can pull the old shunt from your ole controller and mybe install that in place of the Ecrazt controller or build and external shunt from it and add.. 

The best test is to run the bike up some hills and feel the batterys if they get more then a warm or make more resistance shunts to be very safe if they get hot youre in trouble..

Where you will find big errors are when people put a 40 amp controller straight onto a 10ah GM pack.  This is too much.

That curley wire left over is black marker ink.  It is not a wire.  It looks a bit like a wire.