Dead Magic Pie or can I resuscitate it????

[robertozm]

More pics

[Bikemad]

About the phase wires, I have been looking but as I don't know what I have to look for, herewith I send a closeups hoping you (or anyone) can see if there is something wrong.  I think they are ok, but you tell me.

Roberto, the connection from the green phase wire does not look good in the picture, but it's difficult to see from the camera angle whether it is touching the nearby surface area of the blue phase contact.
See attachment below for more details.

I hope it makes sense to you.

Alan
 

[Cornelius]

That's really a good example of 'cold soldering'. Cold soldering happens when the iron are hot enough to melt the tin, but haven't heated the metal properly. The result are poor mechanical connections, and after a time, poor electrical connections.

Now, there wil be an practical exam, so pay attention.

When soldering; one should use the iron to heat the soldering point/wire until the tin melts on the soldering point/wire, NOT on the iron. The tin should then flow like fluid around the soldering point/wire. Also, one should take care to not heat the soldering point longer than necessary.

Larger mass of metal to be soldered requires a more powerful soldering iron, like 40-60W. Small points/component legs etc. are fine with a 15-25W iron. If one have a powerful iron and want to solder small points; try to use no more than 5 seconds. Heating a point too long are also bad, and could damage both component and the copper paths on the printed circuit board.

Class dismissed.

[robertozm]

Roberto, the connection from the green phase wire does not look good in the picture, but it's difficult to see from the camera angle whether it is touching the nearby surface area of the blue phase contact.
See attachment below for more details.

I hope it makes sense to you.

Alan
 

Hi Alan:
Thanks again!!!

Today I will start with the soldering  and I will de-resolder the phase wires, keeping in mind the advice of Cornelius.   I will post some pics when done.

What do you think about my battery configuration with two outputs, 24v for the relay and 36v for the motor? May this cause the problem? 
Why, when the cycle analyst tell me that I have consumed 10 amps the motor stops even though my battery is 16amp?

Or looking at the pics, do you think the phase wires bad soldering might be doing some short circuit and the only cause of the problems?

Thanks
Roberto

[robertozm]

That's really a good example of 'cold soldering'. Cold soldering happens when the iron are hot enough to melt the tin, but haven't heated the metal properly. The result are poor mechanical connections, and after a time, poor electrical connections.

Now, there wil be an practical exam, so pay attention.

When soldering; one should use the iron to heat the soldering point/wire until the tin melts on the soldering point/wire, NOT on the iron. The tin should then flow like fluid around the soldering point/wire. Also, one should take care to not heat the soldering point longer than necessary.

Larger mass of metal to be soldered requires a more powerful soldering iron, like 40-60W. Small points/component legs etc. are fine with a 15-25W iron. If one have a powerful iron and want to solder small points; try to use no more than 5 seconds. Heating a point too long are also bad, and could damage both component and the copper paths on the printed circuit board.

Class dismissed.

Hi Cornelius;
Thanks for your help and your master class   I really need it because I have done a lot of soldering but with no idea if I was doing it right or wrong...
If I have understand you right:  to solder a wire, I have to heat the wire with the Iron (soldering iron), and applied the tin to the wire until it melts?? because what I usually do is to place the tin between the iron and the wire until it melts.
When I will have to solder the condensator, I will have to apply the heat to the legs of the condensator until the tin melts.  My iron soldering is a powerful one so I hope I wont burnt it
Thanks

[DirtyGinge]

Hi All

with regards to the battery, it may be voltage sagging affecting the battery, so that if you travel for 10mph for the full distance, you might get closer to your 16AH, however with increased current demand, the voltage drops much more quickly, hitting your low voltage cut-off much quicker..

With my 48V 12AH battery, at normal use, I can get 10-11AH, but if I absolutely hammer it, can be as low as 7AH

Hood luck with the phase wires, they didnt look right to me, might not be touching, but if any moisture got in there it could cause some issues....just take your time, make sure you have plenty of space etc

regards

[robertozm]

Hi All

with regards to the battery, it may be voltage sagging affecting the battery, so that if you travel for 10mph for the full distance, you might get closer to your 16AH, however with increased current demand, the voltage drops much more quickly, hitting your low voltage cut-off much quicker..

With my 48V 12AH battery, at normal use, I can get 10-11AH, but if I absolutely hammer it, can be as low as 7AH

Hood luck with the phase wires, they didnt look right to me, might not be touching, but if any moisture got in there it could cause some issues....just take your time, make sure you have plenty of space etc

regards

Hi Dirtyginge:
Sorry but the voltage is over 30 volts and when it reach the 10 amp, it goes dead
Another question is it possible to change the low voltage cut off, to a lower one?
Thanks

[Cornelius]

If I have understand you right:  to solder a wire, I have to heat the wire with the Iron (soldering iron), and applied the tin to the wire until it melts??

This is correct.
Both the wire AND the point where the wire are to be soldered to should melt the tin easily.

Edit:
The right position for the tip of the soldering iron should be touching both the leg of the component and the point where it are to be soldered to. When it comes to wires, it's not always easy to do that.
/edit

because what I usually do is to place the tin between the iron and the wire until it melts.

This is not (quite) the correct way to do it. (it's not the completely wrong way either )

It is ok to melt a little tin on the soldering iron when you start, just to make the thermal transfer between the iron tip and the point to solder better. After that, one should make sure that the rest of the applied tin melts on the soldering points.

The main point is to make sure that the tin that melts and fill the soldering point, melts when touching the tin to the soldering points. This way, one knows for sure that the tin have completely surrounded and bonded to the material.

Oh, and do not overdo the amount of tin either; a large round (ish) blob of tin are too much. The result of just the right amount of tin should look something like the Eiffeltower (when viewing the soldering point from the side.)

[robertozm]

If I have understand you right:  to solder a wire, I have to heat the wire with the Iron (soldering iron), and applied the tin to the wire until it melts??

This is correct.
Both the wire AND the point where the wire are to be soldered to should melt the tin easily.

Edit:
The right position for the tip of the soldering iron should be touching both the leg of the component and the point where it are to be soldered to. When it comes to wires, it's not always easy to do that.
/edit

because what I usually do is to place the tin between the iron and the wire until it melts.

This is not (quite) the correct way to do it. (it's not the completely wrong way either )

It is ok to melt a little tin on the soldering iron when you start, just to make the thermal transfer between the iron tip and the point to solder better. After that, one should make sure that the rest of the applied tin melts on the soldering points.

The main point is to make sure that the tin that melts and fill the soldering point, melts when touching the tin to the soldering points. This way, one knows for sure that the tin have completely surrounded and bonded to the material.

Oh, and do not overdo the amount of tin either; a large round (ish) blob of tin are too much. The result of just the right amount of tin should look something like the Eiffeltower (when viewing the soldering point from the side.)

Hi Cornelius:
Thanks for your time:

I have finish with the desoldering and resoldering, I hope I have done it right.  What do you think??

The pic nº 00 is just after I managed to desolder the green wire, I don't know if the pcb is damaged  
It wasnt easy, because it was hard to melt the thin and I had to change the soldering tip (thin one for a much larger one) and placed it over the wire, but when I got it loose, it left a lot of thin over the pcb, and since I don't have nothing to suck the tin I had to remove it by melting it and cleaning the tip, than again and again...

The other ones are how I solder it again, I hope it is ok?  

[robertozm]

More pics of soldering...

[robertozm]

This my Effiel tower for the condensator

Is it ok?

[Cornelius]

I can see that you have a soldering iron which are a little bit too powerful of the job.

You see those wrinkles on the tin? that's a sign of tin that has been heated for too long. The surface of the melted tin should be wrinklefree and smooth...

But do not worry, it's a lot better than those cold soldering that was there. And practice makes perfect.
I'd say that your solders are - electrically and mechanically speaking; much better than the original ones...

Now, notice your Eiffeltower; yours have 'legs' that turn inwards; the real life Eiffeltower does not. In other words; a bit too much tin.
But you're excused, since you didn't have any tool to suck away the old tin, which are a 'must' to make a perfect re-solder.
(Old/used soldering tin tends to wrinkle easy and behave a bit 'stickey/gooey', but does make a reasonable connection; a dab of fresh tin to the old tends to 'freshen it up'. (but are not the best solution.)

Edit:
Do not forget to snip off the protuding legs of that condensator.
(there are two schools of opinions regarding snipping of legs; before or after soldering. (some says that the mechanical force from the plier weakens the soldering point; some say it doesn't matter) )

[Bikemad]

Roberto, I've just had a quick look at your pictures, but I'm concerned about these joints:



With the internal controllers, the capacitor is actually fitted on the wrong side of the circuit board, so the area that the pins would normally be soldered to is also on the wrong side.
It is important that enough solder is allowed to flow down the gap between the pins and the holes to hopefully make a good joint between the pins and the copper tracks on the underside of the board:



Just soldering it to the small circles on the top side of the board is unlikely to produce continuity between the capacitor pins/legs and the correct track on the circuit board. If you take a good look at the soldered resistor wire in the bottom right corner of the lower picture, you should be able to see exactly what I'm trying to explain, it appears to be soldered nicely from the top side, but it looks to me as if it's barely touching against track on the underside, and this is the place where it should have a decent joint.
Although you may have soldered the capacitor securely to the board, it won't be able to function correctly without a decent connection.

I'm rather concerned that a decent joint between both pins and the underside of the board may not be easily achieved, which might account for the capacitor falling off in the first place!  

Alan
 

[Cornelius]

Bikemad:
I believe that these pcb has through-hole connections (most 2-sided pcb has it nowadays), which makes the connection sound, electrically. it also helps transferring tin through the holes to the other pads... Especially since it seems that he has a rather powerful iron...

Edit:
But yes, sound advice. It will be a balance between making sure the tin flows through the hole, and not overheat the point...

Nevertheless, his soldering would be better than original.

[robertozm]

Roberto, I've just had a quick look at your pictures, but I'm concerned about these joints:



With the internal controllers, the capacitor is actually fitted on the wrong side of the circuit board, so the area that the pins would normally be soldered to is also on the wrong side.
It is important that enough solder is allowed to flow down the gap between the pins and the holes to hopefully make a good joint between the pins and the copper tracks on the underside of the board:



Just soldering it to the small circles on the top side of the board is unlikely to produce continuity between the capacitor pins/legs and the correct track on the circuit board. If you take a good look at the soldered resistor wire in the bottom right corner of the lower picture, you should be able to see exactly what I'm trying to explain, it appears to be soldered nicely from the top side, but it looks to me as if it's barely touching against track on the underside, and this is the place where it should have a decent joint.
Although you may have soldered the capacitor securely to the board, it won't be able to function correctly without a decent connection.

I'm rather concerned that a decent joint between both pins and the underside of the board may not be easily achieved, which might account for the capacitor falling off in the first place!  

Alan
 

What???  Did I put it in the wrong side?
Do you mean that I shouldn´t have solder it in the dark side but in the phase wires side of the pcb??

In my defense about the soldering of the condensator, I have to say that I let a little bit of thin to go through the holes and I hope they are alright but Do I have anyway to check it out??  What will happens if it isnt properly solded?  Will the controller burnt or it will just wont work?
I hope you can tell me something about it because I was going to close the wheel... ;(

Can you tell me anythig about the battery questions of the previous post?

Thanks again