Dead Magic Pie or can I resuscitate it????

[robertozm]

Hi everyone
I hope someone can help me AGAIN.  And I say again because this is my third goldenmotor hub motor with problems...

At the begining of last summer I started to have some problems with 1st version of the Magic Pie, it has been running
for NO more than 100 km, and there was some strange noise wich grew up in dB under load (small hill, stop pedalling, etc),
and sometimes (when less expected) the motor stops.  Everything went dead; the motor stops running, the cycleanalyst off,
the battery meter in the throttle off, so I had to turn off the key, wait 10-20 or 30sec and open the key again. 
Sometimes the motor did run for another 5 meters or if lucky 100meters, and then again key off- key on.
Another thing that happened was, that the lights of the baterry meter only lite 2 of them, even though the battery was
completely charged, the batterymeter tells me that is only half full, and that happens always.
Due to the strange noise inside I thought maybe a ball bearing migth be broken (I weight about 93kg, the bike 23kg
and laptop books etc maybe another 7 kg) and maybe those broken bearings were making some mess inside the motor or
something like that.

By that time I got sick and I didnt have the will and spirit to cope with it, so I left the bike against the wall
until last Monday.  I went to the shop near my house (300m) to buy some bread, and everything seemed right. 
There was some strange noise but not very loud, I thought it would be the spokes... but nothing of stoping every
5 meters or on the smallest load as before, so I was really happy.  But yesterday I went for a ride and I had to
come back walking because this time the key off-on didn´t work.

Today I opened the motor and I found these:
1.- This capacitor or condensator (or something like that) 63v 470uF (see picture attached) was loose between the cables, and I am not sure
were it should go because in the "dark side" there is another condensator as this one  so I am not sure if this one is
in this side like the one showed by BikeMad in this post... http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=2103.msg10472#msg10472,
or not since I miss the beeper and my pcb is mx312, and Bikemad is  mx315.  I also don't know if the cappacitor/condensator...
it is broken or how to check if it is.
2.- There are a lot of scratches in the magnets, and where the copper coils are, there is a lot of rust. Is this normal or may I do something
like use some smooth sand paper.?
3.- When I spin the cover (the side with out the freewheel) it is not well centered and it is touching something (I can hear it)
but I don't know what (I hope is is not the coils) and I don't know how to take it off to check it out.

Please can anyone help me??

[robertozm]

Another pics...

[robertozm]

+ pics

[robertozm]

This is of the other side of the inner controller (as much as I can see..) where you can see the same capacitor/condensator or what ever, so I don't know if the loose one comes from this side???

[DirtyGinge]

where the holes are, is a very safe bet

I would also check all the other soldering connections for good work, ( i.e. not short circuit)

your phase wires ( green yellow blue) have the look of a pretty poor solder job, and maybe they are touching the other phase wire traces on the board intermittently, worth checking out

Do you have solder skills for that, or know anyone ?

The capacitor, if you are not sure is not damaged, is pretty common, refit another one of similar spec ?

Regards

[DirtyGinge]

sorry, forgot to mention

goes on same side as other large capacitor ( opposite side of small red one)

p.s. im drunk, so pay no attention , but I looked at my recently removed internal controller

regards

[Bikemad]

Roberto, I hope you're feeling much better now.

The capacitor should be fitted right next to the other one as shown here:




You will need to ensure that you have the polarity of the capacitor correct before soldering it back into place.

To clean off all that corrosion, it might be better to remove the stator completely to prevent getting any more debris on the magnets.
A wire brush should clean most of the corrosion from the stator's laminated core, but be careful not to catch the windings with the wire brush, as you could well remove some of the insulation material from the wires, which could result in a short circuit.

Once cleaned, brush some thin oil or use spray grease on the stator to try and prevent further corrosion.

Good luck, and keep us updated with your progress.

Alan
 

[robertozm]

Roberto, I hope you're feeling much better now.
The capacitor should be fitted right next to the other one as shown here:

You will need to ensure that you have the polarity of the capacitor correct before soldering it back into place.
To clean off all that corrosion, it might be better to remove the stator completely to prevent getting any more debris on the magnets.
A wire brush should clean most of the corrosion from the stator's laminated core, but be careful not to catch the windings with the wire brush, as you could well remove some of the insulation material from the wires, which could result in a short circuit.
Once cleaned, brush some thin oil or use spray grease on the stator to try and prevent further corrosion.
Good luck, and keep us updated with your progress.
Alan

Hi Alan:
Thanks for the pics, BUT,( there is always a but...)
How do I get the cover plate of this side, because I have try but I cant!!!

How do I know the polarity of the capacitor and the polarity of the place I have to solder it to??

Do you think as DirtyGinge about the phase wires??  Do you think I should resolder them?

What about the phase wires touching the wires traces on the board??  What are the wire traces on the board?
Because when he says it might be touching them intermittently, that will answer why sometimes it works and others dont.

And the last one, as I can see in the pics you attached your stator and magnets looks pretty clean, not as
mine that are full of debris and cracks, marks, scratches...  is that normal. 
Do you think the problems I had, stops, noises and lights in battery meter could be a result of a poor soldering in
this loosen component?

Thanks for your reply

PD: I am feeling better, but now we have really good weather around here I would love to take my camera and my bike and going for a ride...
Thanks for asking  

[robertozm]

sorry, forgot to mention

goes on same side as other large capacitor ( opposite side of small red one)

p.s. im drunk, so pay no attention , but I looked at my recently removed internal controller

regards

Thanks for your quick reply, I will start looking for a new capacitor today

Ps.  Have a nice hangover

[rollin76]

Could inside of motor and magnets be painted to prevent this?

[robertozm]

To clean off all that corrosion, it might be better to remove the stator completely to prevent getting any more debris on the magnets.
A wire brush should clean most of the corrosion from the stator's laminated core, but be careful not to catch the windings with the wire brush, as you could well remove some of the insulation material from the wires, which could result in a short circuit.

Once cleaned, brush some thin oil or use spray grease on the stator to try and prevent further corrosion.

Good luck, and keep us updated with your progress.

Alan

I have brush it with lot of care not to damage the windings and this is the after and before...  and afterward I have sprayed very mildly TF2 manufactured by WeldTite, is the lubricant with teflon I use for the chain.  I hope it will work.  Now it looks a little bit more like yours, but not as clean
 

[Bikemad]

That looks much better Roberto, now you need to try and remove the particles which are stuck to the magnets inside the hub.

Alan
 

[robertozm]

That looks much better Roberto, now you need to try and remove the particles which are stuck to the magnets inside the hub.

Alan
 

Hi Alan:
Could you tell me how to take the cover plate of the other side??  Because today I have taken the allen srews that hold the controller but I don't have enouhg room to solder the components, so I have to do it from the other side, but I cant figure out how. without taking out the "open washer" (I don't know how to say it in spanish so I have no clue the name in english) that is at the bottom of the axle...  Because I don't know with tool to use for this.

Here are the before-After of the magnets

[Bikemad]

Hi Alan:
Could you tell me how to take the cover plate of the other side??  Because today I have taken the allen srews that hold the controller but I don't have enouhg room to solder the components, so I have to do it from the other side, but I cant figure out how. without taking out the "open washer" (I don't know how to say it in spanish so I have no clue the name in english) that is at the bottom of the axle...  Because I don't know with tool to use for this.

Roberto, those pictures were from Hyena's original review of the Magic Pie prior to its release, which is why it is so nice and clean.

You should be able to remove the cover without having to remove the circlip (Open Washer) as it is only there to prevent the wires from rubbing against the inside of the moving hub cover.

Just so you know, this is a pair of external circlip pliers, which is the correct tool for removing the circlip:

 
The bearing, wires and circlip should remain on the axle as the cover is removed, but be careful that the bearing does not try to move on the axle, as excessive movement of the bearing could trap and damage the wires.

Check out this post for some useful pictures which should help.

If you clean up the pins on the old capacitor, it should solder back into the circuit board. There is a little "+" sign on the circuit board where the positive pin should be. Your pins will probably both be the same length, but the marking on the capacitor's casing should identify its polarity:



As far as the phase wire connections are concerned, I suggest you look closely with a magnifying glass to make sure the soldered wires are not touching anything they shouldn't on the circuit board.

I think that the cutting out may be due to a battery problem, unless an obvious short is visible on any of the soldered phase connections.
Can you recall what the highest Amp reading was on the Cycle Analyst?

Alan
 

[robertozm]

Roberto, those pictures were from Hyena's original review of the Magic Pie prior to its release, which is why it is so nice and clean.

You should be able to remove the cover without having to remove the circlip (Open Washer) as it is only there to prevent the wires from rubbing against the inside of the moving hub cover.
 
The bearing, wires and circlip should remain on the axle as the cover is removed, but be careful that the bearing does not try to move on the axle, as excessive movement of the bearing could trap and damage the wires.

Check out this post for some useful pictures which should help.

If you clean up the pins on the old capacitor, it should solder back into the circuit board. There is a little "+" sign on the circuit board where the positive pin should be. Your pins will probably both be the same length, but the marking on the capacitor's casing should identify its polarity:

As far as the phase wire connections are concerned, I suggest you look closely with a magnifying glass to make sure the soldered wires are not touching anything they shouldn't on the circuit board.

I think that the cutting out may be due to a battery problem, unless an obvious short is visible on any of the soldered phase connections.
Can you recall what the highest Amp reading was on the Cycle Analyst?
Alan

HI Alan:
I don't know where do you live but if you are near Seville (Spain) I must invite you to a beer or something like that because you are always saving my bike!!!  and also thanks to improve my vocabulary "Circlip"

Finally I managed to take the cover of and I found :
1.- The external jacket of the wires are dammage but it didnt get to the core, so I think a little duct tape will be enough.
2.- The bearings have a "little" bit of rust and dirt, but seams ok. I was thinking to change it but I wont.
3.- The polarity indication you said is this one in the pic attached.  There is a + signal, so I supposed is that.  I have already buy new condensator and if you say that it is I will solder it tomorrow morning.

On the other hand, yesterday I said I heard a noise like if something was brushing against the cover but there are no signal of that, so maybe it was just the dirt and rust.

About the phase wires, I have been looking but as I don't know what I have to look for, herewith I send a closeups hoping you (or anyone) can see if there is something wrong.  I think they are ok, but you tell me.

And finally about the cutting out, this morning I was looking another post talking about dead cell, so I have checked out what voltage do the cells have, and all of them except one have 3.3v and 1 has 3.4v.  So apparently they are all right arent they???  Is there other
way to check out the cells???
I don't remember the higest amp reading on the cycle analyst, but tomorrow if I finish the soldering and mounting back the will I will look at it and post it back, but Why it is important that data?  I can tell you that even my battery is rated 16 amp, when the cycle
ananlyst says I have consumed 10 amp the bike wont run , and I never figure out why.

Last May I installed a relay because I always burnt the key swicth so I decided to intall a relay of 24v 100Amp, and to feed this relay I solder I wire to a negative of the 4th cell, so when I measured the voltage it give me the 24v I need.  I think this can not cause
the problem because the bms will compensate the discharge diference between the 36v for the motor and the 24vlt for the relay, isnt it??  Or do I have to instal something that will lower the voltage from 36 to 24 even though I will have a less efficient power consumtion and
a heat "problem" (because the voltage is lower because is dissipated as heat, isnt it?)  Do you think this could cause the problem?

I am thinking to change all the feeding of the relay with an external battery array of 3x9volt battery, but I have to look for a cheap 9v rechargable battery on ebay o something like that because here I only found them at 13€ and I think that´s expensive...

Again thanks for your patience and your help

Roberto