Author Topic: Braking of HBS-48V1000W Solid 16" wheel  (Read 57248 times)

Offline kent1956

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Braking of HBS-48V1000W Solid 16" wheel
« on: August 29, 2010, 07:08:40 AM »
Hi all,

I hope someone here can give me some information on this wheel/motor. It is a 16" solid cast wheel with a HBS-48V1000W hub motor. I bought it from a seller on ebay that was selling to off as a clearance item. Got a good price and it will fit my recumbent bike.

My question is, How do I brake this wheel? There is no mounting for a disk brake, and not enough rim for rim brakes. Is this supposed to be used with a regen/braking controller?


Offline Leslie

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Re: Braking of HBS-48V1000W Solid 16" wheel
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2010, 09:00:25 AM »
http://www.e-mtb.com.au/screw-thread-to-is-brake-boss-adapter-p-221.html

Would this be what youre after?

Look at the hub case is there a thread on the disc brake side?


Bring it on

Offline kent1956

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Re: Braking of HBS-48V1000W Solid 16" wheel
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2010, 04:57:57 PM »
No, I don't see anything where a disc brake mounting boss would thread on.

Only the axle bolts.

Offline Leslie

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Re: Braking of HBS-48V1000W Solid 16" wheel
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2010, 06:18:35 PM »
If its got no thread there like my the two hbs hubs I bought then I guess you have answered your won question.  Regen should be the only way.

The 16 inch wheel should give you plenty of braking power.


These are called the 12 fet GM black regen controllers.



If you can get one of these it would be handy as it has variable regen off the throttle.  It has no freewheel unless you disable it.  But as you decelerate the regen increases.  Which is what you would want to have no breaks.


Its not very wise to just use regen and we take no responsibility for your safety if regen fails to stop you when you most need it,

However those controllers if the controller fails or a hall sensor fails they usually slow to a stop pretty fast anyway. 



I don't unserstand because all GM HBS motors have the housing there witht the thread, I cant see it wothout it there.  Is it easy to provide pictures?

 

Bring it on

Offline Bikemad

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Re: Braking of HBS-48V 1000W Solid 16" wheel
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2010, 12:50:40 AM »

The wires should exit from the left hand side.

Check out this post for some more useful information on a scooter conversion.

Alan
 

Offline Bikemad

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Re: Braking of HBS-48V1000W Solid 16" wheel
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2010, 02:08:14 AM »
wire comes out the left hand side when siting on the bike facing forward, is that right?

That's correct!

You can see it clearly on Wayne's front wheel, picture taken from the left hand side of the bike:



Alan
 
« Last Edit: June 30, 2017, 08:05:19 PM by Bikemad »

Offline TOM

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Re: Braking of HBS-48V1000W Solid 16" wheel
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2010, 08:06:24 AM »
Hi all,

I hope someone here can give me some information on this wheel/motor. It is a 16" solid cast wheel with a HBS-48V1000W hub motor. I bought it from a seller on ebay that was selling to off as a clearance item. Got a good price and it will fit my recumbent bike.

My question is, How do I brake this wheel? There is no mounting for a disk brake, and not enough rim for rim brakes. Is this supposed to be used with a regen/braking controller?


Could you take a photo with your motor?
Our GM have disk brake can be intalled this motor.
My email address:tom@goldenmotor.com

Offline TOM

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Re: Braking of HBS-48V1000W Solid 16" wheel
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2010, 09:16:43 AM »
My email address:tom@goldenmotor.com
Email to me and you can get more information.

Offline karen

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Re: Braking of HBS-48V1000W Solid 16" wheel
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2010, 08:21:24 AM »

Offline vapid2323

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Re: Braking of HBS-48V1000W Solid 16" wheel
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2010, 04:55:11 AM »
Just so you know you have the CapsLock key pressed

Offline MonkeyMagic

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Re: Braking of HBS-48V1000W Solid 16" wheel
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2010, 11:24:38 AM »
Ouch my ears!

Sounded like a really loud ebay plug :)

Offline Bikemad

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Re: Optimistic figures
« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2010, 12:48:00 PM »

Ear plugs are no longer necessary as the SHOUTING has been sorted. ;)

Quote
Now with this 1000 watt rear wheel motor upgrade, plus the extra 4 batteries I fit under the seat. Now total 8 / 12ah batteries my range will be approx. 100 km on a single charge. With a max. Speed of 60 km per hour.

I suspect the figures may be slightly optimistic, especially if you are using lead acid batteries.

After charging 64V 60AH I did a testdrive with a lot of acceleration. After 75 km the battery was almost empty.
The topspeed is 65 km/h (GPS speed) .


If your running @ 96V 12Ah with a suitable controller, then 60km/h should be attainable, but a 20-25km range might be more realistic.
If your running @ 48V 24Ah then I think you would be lucky to get 45Km/h and a range of 40-50km.

Alan
 


Offline Leslie

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Re: Braking of HBS-48V1000W Solid 16" wheel
« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2010, 03:46:15 PM »
A 96v @ 60 kph if he had the amps flowing he should get faster than this.  Try 70 kph.

Say his motor is shunted at 20 amps due to internal resistance, 70/60 ratio depicts he is only drawing say 17 amps.  12ah at 17 amps = 42 mins running time.

42 mins at 60kph = 42kms.  This is just the quick math as we would need the true watts per km to define the true range.

See the SLA series battery can work as a shunt limiting the amount of current at the expense of a small loss of energy but past the battery divider it more open..  Still entire circuit resistance will be much higher and less efficient with SLA's but E is larger than R always until the batteries are flat.

Much more involved than trying to work it out with guesstimations.

100 kms.  Not even close.  25kms nahh not enough range.   38 kms  Hmmm a little closer.

Bring it on

Offline Bikemad

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Re: Estimated range continued
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2010, 01:26:28 AM »
100 kms.  Not even close.  25kms nahh not enough range.   38 kms  Hmmm a little closer.

Maintaining a constant 60km/h would require around 1500 watts. If the motor was 70% efficient, you would need to supply 2150 watts to the motor in order to achieve the required output.

2150 watts / 96 Volts = 22.4 Amps.

12Ah at 22.4Amps = 32 minutes.

Now you also need to take into account the fact that most 12Ah lead acid batteries are not able to supply 12 Amps continuous for 1 Hour.
They are rated 12.0Ah @ 20hr-rate to 1.75V per cell @ 25°C (77°F), meaning it should supply 1/20 of its rating (0.6Amp) for 20 hours continuous if you're very lucky!

Quote from: www.batteryuniversity.com
One battery that does not perform well at a 1C discharge rate is the portable sealed lead-acid. To obtain a reasonably good capacity reading, manufacturers commonly rate these batteries at 0.05C or 20 hour discharge. Even at this slow discharge rate, a 100% capacity is hard to attain. To compensate for different readings at various discharge currents, manufacturers offer a capacity offset. Applying the offset to correct the capacity readout does not improve battery performance; it merely adjusts the capacity calculation if discharged at a higher or lower C-rate than specified.

If it was discharged at a steady 12Amps, it would reach the Low Voltage Cutoff point (10.5V/battery) in less than 35 minutes (see attached graph), never mind 60 minutes!

If it was discharged at a steady 22.4Amps, I would anticipate it lasting 20-25 minutes maximum if you were lucky, which is why I estimated 20-25km range. ;)

A 12Ah lithium battery with a continuous 2C rating (24Amp) should be able to supply 22.4Amps for just over 32 minutes (32km range @ 60km/h).

Upon reflection, I think my estimated 20-25km range for a 96V 12Ah lead acid battery pack, is probably far too generous.
                     
Alan

« Last Edit: June 30, 2017, 08:13:02 PM by Bikemad »

leo1

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Re: Estimated range continued
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2010, 02:51:33 AM »
100 kms.  Not even close.  25kms nahh not enough range.   38 kms  Hmmm a little closer.

Maintaining a constant 60km/h would require around 1500 watts. If the motor was 70% efficient, you would need to supply 2150 watts to the in order to achieve the required output.

2150 watts / 96 Volts = 22.4 Amps.

12Ah at 22.4Amps = 32 minutes.

Now you also need to take into account the fact that most 12Ah lead acid batteries are not able to supply 12 Amps continuous for 1 Hour.
They are rated 12.0Ah @ 20hr-rate to 1.75V per cell @ 25°C (77°F), meaning it should supply 1/20 of its rating (0.6Amp) for 20 hours continuous if you're very lucky!

Quote from: www.batteryuniversity.com
One battery that does not perform well at a 1C discharge rate is the portable sealed lead-acid. To obtain a reasonably good capacity reading, manufacturers commonly rate these batteries at 0.05C or 20 hour discharge. Even at this slow discharge rate, a 100% capacity is hard to attain. To compensate for different readings at various discharge currents, manufacturers offer a capacity offset. Applying the offset to correct the capacity readout does not improve battery performance; it merely adjusts the capacity calculation if discharged at a higher or lower C-rate than specified.

If it was discharged at a steady 12Amps, it would reach the Low Voltage Cutoff point (10.5V/battery) in less than 35 minutes (see attached graph), never mind 60 minutes!

If it was discharged at a steady 22.4Amps, I would anticipate it lasting 20-25 minutes maximum if you were lucky, which is why I estimated 20-25km range. ;)

A 12Ah lithium battery with a continuous 2C rating (24Amp) should be able to supply 22.4Amps for just over 32 minutes (32km range @ 60km/h).

Upon reflection, I think my estimated 20-25km range for a 96V 12Ah lead acid battery pack, is probably far too generous.
                     
Alan


48 volt 12 Ah / 4 large batteries SLA gelled batteries with stock 350/500 watt motor. 40 to 60 km riding range all day long on a single charge. 32 km per hour max. speed. thats a fact! I ride it every day! All you people first just check out the Gio scooter specs. sla glass matt batteries are the best bang for your buck at this time. all the others are still far to expensive. gel and glass matt sla batteries are super reliable, dirt cheap to buy, atbatteries.com , totaly memory free, and good for up to 4 years or 500+ recharges. how do you beat that? /peter
« Last Edit: July 04, 2017, 10:22:44 PM by Bikemad »