Much More Powerful Pie Now!!!

[o00scorpion00o]

Hi again everyone, I'm typing this in a much happier mood. I soldered an extra shunt on the pie controller and holy Jesus! Does she fly, the beast of a pie!!! I could feel the whole bike lift off the ground as she wanted to fly! The torque is amazing. I could not believe the difference. It's got WAY more torque than my old kit, my friend Pat couldn't believe it too as I left him standing, the acceleration is amazing!

Once you hit 24-25 mph the pie starts to relax, so that leads me to believe there is a speed limit too as well as a current limit! Around 24-25 she pulls around 700-800 watts, But max 2000 watts on acceleration!!!!
I can live with those speeds as the torque is so much fun and climbs hills so much easier. Now all I have to do is make a much stronger torque arm as the old one is starting to give already. So if anyone attempts to do this mod, make sure you have a VERY strong torque arm and dump those torque washers that came with the pie if you are using them I wouldn't trust them! Speaking of torque arms, does anyone know why GM don't offer them as an extra with the kit? Those torque washers don't fit every bike, and didn't fit mine!

I can understand GM taming such a beast because maybe they want to make sure it's reliable with the internal controller especially.
I would love to see them offer different kits, one for people like me who love power, and others that are road legal. For power users the limit should be taken off the internal controller so that people can actually turn it up or down as they wish.

I know my warranty is gone now, but I really wasn't happy the way it was. The pie will be good enough for most people and as a first kit it's really easy to install, The long cables are a pain, maybe a short cable option in the future?

I will keep you posted as to the reliability of the motor and controller and hopefully it will not die! It would be very nice to be able to install thermistors, one for the motor, one for the controller so I know when to relax the throttle.
 
Anyway here are the pics of the mod.

[windego]

That is really interesting. Thats how my pie is now but not as juicy as yours for sure. But it rocks ups to 25 and then stops hauling. My batteries are 16s life so 55vish.


Stan

[gf3]

yes that is interesting. If they have limited the speed in some way I wonder if you used the controller out of a smaller pie if it would go faster assuming they would want the small pie to go as fast as a large one.

[o00scorpion00o]

ya it's all very interesting stuff. Could I be so cheeky as to say that maybe GM want us to buy the dual pies to make up for the low torque.
They might not like me saying that. And maybe it isn't fair as I have not tested out the pie at all long enough. But on my 4 mile spin today it was barely warm. I know that is not an indication of the temp of the controller, or the windings for that matter. But I have felt hot motors before. My old 1000w motor got hot at 1100 watts, The pie was pulling 1kw - 2kw for short bursts. I really  unleashed a beast that's for sure!

It would be really cool if there was some way I could install a wireless thermistor, one for controller and motor and power it off the controller and send it to a display on the handlebars! If it does heat up too much than I will try install some better heatsink. 

I know from other forums of phase wires melting and people having to join thicker wires at the axel, but the beauty of the pie is they are so short between controller and motor!

Anyway my friend pat is making the torque arms, one for each side. He is good at that kind of stuff. I will post more when I get a good few tests done. I hope I don't burn my pie!

[MonkeyMagic]

Hey scorpion

Awesome post mate.... Gets me thinking -- I'll be trying this in the near future but probably have mine switched via a fet as I believe the additional power consumption will greatly reduce range.. Do you know what sort of range you are getting now?

Sending a wireless signal through the hub could be a problem due to the magnetic field the motor generates.. Thanks heaps for putting pics up, I'm tempted to do this to my 16" cast which will probably flip my bike over!!

Thanks pal

[o00scorpion00o]

Hey scorpion

Awesome post mate.... Gets me thinking -- I'll be trying this in the near future but probably have mine switched via a fet as I believe the additional power consumption will greatly reduce range.. Do you know what sort of range you are getting now?

Sending a wireless signal through the hub could be a problem due to the magnetic field the motor generates.. Thanks heaps for putting pics up, I'm tempted to do this to my 16" cast which will probably flip my bike over!!

Thanks pal

Hi MonkeyMagic. No no idea of range yet really. I'm dying to get out on it again. But I have to wait for my torque arms. So hopefully pat will have them ready later. Acceleration was fantastic, once I reached about 25 mph the power backed off to about 700-800 watts, So that would help with range, I wonder if the pie will go faster as there seems to be some limit to it?

I don't know much about controllers, shunts etc, But from looking around on the net I kinda figured out that adding an extra shunt can increase the current, so I just installed another and it worked! It shows the potential this motor has, so hopefully I can get to do a few reliability tests today or tomorrow.

I must say I am very unhappy that GM decided to hold back the controller so much. Why bother with the usb cable at all? In the software it says 30 amps continuous, 50 max. Why don't they have 14 or 15 max showing up. As I said before it would be really cool to have the option to make it as powerful as I have it now, or be able to turn it down. Or let GM offer the kit as legal only, or send it out the way I got it, with the limit!

I'm just thinking wouldn't it be nice if they offered a control panel for the handlebars that would let you turn the amps up or down, or to adjust speed limits, monitor temps etc. I and I'm sure many others would pay good money for that!!! 

[o00scorpion00o]

Just went for a 8 mile spin no problems, 8 miles I used 4 amps. That was throttle only, between 17-20mph couldn't stand to go faster way too windy. There was a few hills along the way. even though the top speed is between 24-26mph, it's able to hold the speed better because of the extra torque. I love the cruise option, being able to set it around 14mph then peddle and watch the watts drop! I didn't peddle much though. I don't know if I will reach the 20-25 miles throttle only as on the old motor, but it sure is a lot of fun feeling the acceleration. It puts a smile on my face every time. The only thing I have to watch is the front wheel lifting off the road!  This is sure a monster of a motor, hopefully it will prove reliable for me. The motor was only luke warm. If you live in a hot climate or do miles of uphill riding, then there might be heat issues, then again you could set the cruise and peddle along I'm sure the pie would like the rest!
 

[vapid2323]

Whoa I need to do this with my dual pie bike

[o00scorpion00o]

Whoa I need to do this with my dual pie bike

Hi vapid2323, I think you are mad if you do this to 2 pies LMAO. you will fly!    I'm not even crazy enough to do this mod on front forks, Just remember to have some VERY strong torque arms on each side. Front or back. Try it on the rear wheel first. If your axels spin and you are going fast you will be hurt, that or you will have a pain in the ass fixing cables!

Also make sure your battery is capable of supplying the current, I would use two with dual pie mod.

Anyway good luck if you try this, and be careful! And don't burn the pie! 

Let me know how it goes.

[vapid2323]

Yah I plan to find some damn good torque arms, I might need them custom >.<

[Leslie]

Hi

Interesting thread about the shunt bypass.

And take the time to program your controller to meet the BMS and motor specs.


The internal controller is design is to stop the heat from motor going into the Fets and heat sink paste and the like. watch out! be sure you know which direction the heat is dissipating if youre considering improving thermal pathways from you PCB.

Pushing the amps like you are you may want to consider removing the internal controller all together.

Enjoy.  

[Pandy]

Hi scorpion, I'm a little confused whether you've bypassed the existing shunt or have parralleled up with another shunt.

If you've parralleled up then a proportion of the current will still be sensed by the controller and you should be able to limit the current level with the software by bringing the maximum current level proportionally lower.

Can you do this ? It would be great if this mod would still allow us current control but at a higher level.

[Leslie]

Hi scorpion, I'm a little confused whether you've bypassed the existing shunt or have parralleled up with another shunt.

If you've parralleled up then a proportion of the current will still be sensed by the controller and you should be able to limit the current level with the software by bringing the maximum current level proportionally lower.

Can you do this ? It would be great if this mod would still allow us current control but at a higher level.

Its a bypass by parallel.  There is a current feeder with the red arrows.  I think its important to define the meaning of shunt and bypass in this situation.



As you can see there is a current feeder or shunt to the fets already marked in red.  He has just made the currnet pathway phat where I marked this in pink.

A shunt is designed to limit a circuit in this case, anything used to pass more current to the fets is a bypass IMHO.


Pictures are hard to tell how fat that original track actually is.  It is a relief to know that the current isnt limited by deeper code than the program controller cable software can alter.


PS:

Scropion

I did noticed you fixed that blob there on the positive input.

Just a little bit of moisture could cause heat around the varnish coat between it and the phase track and burn the varnish off the track and result in a failure.

[Leslie]

It could be the picture just showing an extrusion that we can not see the trace behind.

But!



You may have made it worse with the solder over the phase track here.  The solder heat when soldering will weaken the varnish.  Youve been lucky here.  I would go back and fix it.

[o00scorpion00o]

well spotted 317537. I'll fix her up before I go out today. thanks.

I wonder what the heat is like inside? The outside of the motor only gets Luke warm, God knows how hot the controller gets. The old motor got very warm after a few miles full throttle.

Pandy, I have not adjusted the settings in the controller as I broke my usb cable and it's beyond repair. So I will have to buy a new one. Also It might be worth buying an external magic controller in case I fry the internal one! Does anyone know any other controllers that would work with the pie? I like the magic controller but it's a real pain to hide the wires, I would prefer if they were like the old ones, they were easier mount, and you could hide the wires easier by the way the cables came out. It would be a real pain getting  phase wires and hall wires through the axle.

One thing I noticed on the first controller I had on my old kit before the magic controller was the relay, when you connected the battery there was no spark. I think that was good. It would be so nice to have an on off switch at the handlebars. I hate having to pull apart anderson connectors to kill the power. And I find it impossible to find a high current switch!

Ok I'm off to re solder talk later