Magic Pie II Updates

[myelectricbike]

Before anyone jumps to the wrong conclusion, I would like to point out that this is a serious reply to myelectricbike's post, and is not a job vacancy being advertised!
 
If you have a problem with the rim cracking around the nipple seat area, then perhaps nipple washers could be used instead of throwing away the rim:


With the correct spoke angle, the nipples should seat correctly in the holes, thus spreading the load more evenly to the rim.
Therefore a correctly tensioned spoke with a properly seated nipple should not cause these localised stress cracks in the rim that you have described.

Using thicker spokes (which are more rigid and have less give), will transmit more shock-loads directly to the rim, and in my opinion, this is much more likely to result in stress/fatigue damage to the the rim or the threaded portion of the spokes.

Alan
 

Where can I get these nipple washers? I've already lost one rim.

[myelectricbike]

Spoke rim and nipple strength needs to suitable to the task  

I ride pretty hard with a lot of weight with no back shock absorber.  If I used a lithium battery and light full suspension frame mtb and rode on a city rode the original GM rim would of survived.

But I built a huge steal bike with no back shockies and decided to lug a ton of lead and shopping on the frame along a very bumpy road.  14 gauge and its nipple width would fail me soon enough.

Single wall alloy rim with 13 gauge spoke.  Failed.  Ding in rim and nipple pulls through rim

Single wall steal rim 13 gauge spoke.  Success.  Occasional spoke failure but was better with a lower tension.

Single wall, deep nipple well, alloy rim, 12 gauge, never had a problem since.

But the 14G spoke non-ebike motor wheel on my front is going fine with front shockies.

Thanks for this information. I can get 12 gauge spokes for a straight hole 26" standard duty bicycle rim but I cannot get a rim with deep nipple wells, or 12 gauge spokes that will fit a 500 watt (or above) electric hub to a standard or heavy duty (trike) 26" rim. Where can I get these deep nipple well rims and 12 gauge spokes you are using?

[Bikemad]

Where can I get these nipple washers? I've already lost one rim.

I found the nipple washers on www.chickencycles.co.uk. They are made by Sapim, so I presume they must be available from other cycle shops also.

Failing that I came across this:

I seem to remember a wheel builder a while back recommending spoke nipple washers in certain
applications. Can anyone enlighten me as to when these would be used and where to get them if
needed? Are they used on rims w/ no eyelets?
That might have been me. I use nipple washers under the nipples on rims without ferrules where I
know spoke tension will be high. It prevents pullout and fine cracks from developing around the
nipple holes. I see this happen a lot. I use aluminum washers with a 1/8" hole. I personally prefer
TRW pop-rivet washers. A box of a gajillion is about $5. Add 1mm to your spoke length calc.

Round washers may work with a single walled rim, but I don't think they'd be much use with a double walled rim, because they wouldn't fit through the larger outer hole.

Alan
 

[malkowski]

Any chance we'll be able to buy a Magic Pie II with motor/hall wiring for an external controller? Barring that, any chance of getting one without controller + wiring, to save a bit of money?

I always had a problem with my Magic Pie overheating and shutting the controller off, once I rebuilt it with an external controller it hasn't happened once.

It's the best motor I've found for providing enough torque for my needs without chewing through batteries, and now that it'll be aligned properly it'll be just about perfect.

[myelectricbike]

Failing that I came across this:

Yes, Home Depot stocks Arrow brand for $5 per 100 online plus shipping. Maybe they are cheaper in the store.

It just occurred to me all the work and down time involved but I probably should not put it off.

[JuanQui]

Hello,

Please, anybody knows the total technical specification of the new Magic Pie II?

How many maximun ampers can work in 24V, 36V, 48V and 72V?
How many maximun rpm can work in 24V, 36V, 48V and 72V?

Thanks

Greting from JuanQui

[GoldenMotor]

[rossasaurus]

Wow!
Look at that Magic Family.

[Leslie]

Spoke rim and nipple strength needs to suitable to the task  

I ride pretty hard with a lot of weight with no back shock absorber.  If I used a lithium battery and light full suspension frame mtb and rode on a city rode the original GM rim would of survived.

But I built a huge steal bike with no back shockies and decided to lug a ton of lead and shopping on the frame along a very bumpy road.  14 gauge and its nipple width would fail me soon enough.

Single wall alloy rim with 13 gauge spoke.  Failed.  Ding in rim and nipple pulls through rim

Single wall steal rim 13 gauge spoke.  Success.  Occasional spoke failure but was better with a lower tension.

Single wall, deep nipple well, alloy rim, 12 gauge, never had a problem since.

But the 14G spoke non-ebike motor wheel on my front is going fine with front shockies.

Thanks for this information. I can get 12 gauge spokes for a straight hole 26" standard duty bicycle rim but I cannot get a rim with deep nipple wells, or 12 gauge spokes that will fit a 500 watt (or above) electric hub to a standard or heavy duty (trike) 26" rim. Where can I get these deep nipple well rims and 12 gauge spokes you are using?

I use a 26" rim with the HBS hub.  I got mine straight off an X5 crystallite.  No it wasnt my x5.   Someone owed me a new charger so he sent me a second hand one and some 12 gauge.  The original GM spoke I have one here in front of me measured 168mm and next to the spar 12 gauge measures 165mm.

I use a deep well and they seem to fit fine.  Prolly cause they don't stretch and they only need to be tight enough to stop the rim from moving around.


It was quite difficult to get them on the hub.  Lots of bending.  the result was a very hard wheel.

Ah Ypedal has a .com and got the spokes up here.  Not sure they are 12 gauge but I think its standard for the x5.

http://www.ypedal.com/Products.htm

He's cool.  Email him.

[Leslie]

I getting a 24 inch pie and hooking it up to a mighty little  24 inch MBT MX thing......  wow they look awesome.  



^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
SICK.

Can we get 100v fets please.  

[Leslie]

Where can I get these deep nipple well rims and 12 gauge spokes you are using?

My bad.

Sometimes I make stuff up.

They are actually called deep v rims.  You may have better luck finding them under the correct name.  Sorry for any confusion.  I got mine out of the trash.



They add much lateral strength when laced taking the stress off everything IMO.

The Pie uses a similar rim.  They are excellent and strong for their weight.

26" deep v rim standard original spoke pattern with 12 gauge 165mm length spoke worked fine on the HBS series.  The angle is a bit weird but I havent even bothered checking since I laced her on.  It just works


Where are you at and I can help you find something local?

[myelectricbike]

LOL... I was referred to round 1/8" ID Arrow brand aluminum pop-rivet washers. Found them online for same price in store but when I got to the store they had four hangers full of 3/16" ID. Local is never the way to go at my location.

Since I'm now checking spoke tension before and after each ride I think I'll be okay until I get a Magic Pie. My only question is whether there has been any corrosion on the controller or the hub since I've already lost 2 regular hubs due to internal corrosion caused by heating and cooling sucking moisture in.  

[Leslie]

LOL... I was referred to round 1/8" ID Arrow brand aluminum pop-rivet washers. Found them online for same price in store but when I got to the store they had four hangers full of 3/16" ID. Local is never the way to go at my location.

Since I'm now checking spoke tension before and after each ride I think I'll be okay until I get a Magic Pie. My only question is whether there has been any corrosion on the controller or the hub since I've already lost 2 regular hubs due to internal corrosion caused by heating and cooling sucking moisture in.  

I had that happen on one hub that I glue gunned the axle conduit hole air tight.  Lucky it didn't go too far and I saved it in time. I think I lost a hall sensor.

I remember it was my first instinct to seal the hub from the evil water.  Boy was that a new lesson learned.

You must live in a humid climate.  I live in tropics of Australia and I was expecting it to happen a lot more.

Best to allow the hub to breath.  I have these circuit board drill bits as thick a pin.  You could drill a couple of drain holes on the outer most part of the hub face and put a cool sticker over it if the weather is really bad.

[Leslie]

Yuan.

If anything I ever ask of the engineers of GM is to use 100v fets.  They can still make the hubs 48v and what not and set the on-threshold accordingly to these voltages.

The controllers will be a lot tougher in the event of a fuse blow or a loose battery connection.  I know the fets you use are fine but us humans sometimes are not so good at things and we loose our gear with some easy mistakes..

[JuanQui]

Please Yao, anybody in Golden Motor could let me know the total technical specification of the new Magic Pie II?

How many maximun ampers can work in 24V, 36V, 48V? and could work 72V?
How many maximun rpm can work in 24V, 36V, 48V? and could work 72V?

Thanks

Greting from JuanQui