GoldenMotor.com Forum
General Category => Magic Pie & Smart Pie Discussions => Topic started by: MonkeyMagic on May 21, 2010, 11:50:02 AM
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Hey just wanted to know who is using PI-200 USB cable.
I just recently rewired my MP back and now everything is working but cannot seem to connect to the MP from PC now !
I didn't receive any info with the cable and the software has some warning when started in Chinese I think might be important...
Anyone have any tips of connection? I'm still not sure if I need to have the battery connected or not.
Thanks !
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Hmm so nobody is currently using/used the PI-200 MP USB controller cable?
I'm still having trouble connecting, I've had success before though !
Cheers
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Hmm not trying to bombard the post... But does anyone know what this reads?
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Thanks !
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Hmm not trying to bombard the post... But does anyone know what this reads?
...
Thanks !
No idea! But it looks like you computer is missing the font needed to display what it is trying to say. Probably in chinese.
Muzza.
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I posted a video of the software, it's really short but you can see it in action:
CLICK ME (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jovvc9sTX8E)
This is a link from my iPad so I don't know if it will work lol
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BTW
When working with the software I only had the USB connected and it worked just fine.
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I have also some problems to connect the MP to the software
The link is supposed to be OK cause I have the message in the bottom "connect success"
then, I supposed that I could retreive the existing values from my MP but nothing.
I also tried to change some values then pressed the store/save button. nothing has changed in the MP...
please some tips??
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I have also some problems to connect the MP to the software
The link is supposed to be OK cause I have the message in the bottom "connect success"
then, I supposed that I could retreive the existing values from my MP but nothing.
I also tried to change some values then pressed the store/save button. nothing has changed in the MP...
please some tips??
I was only able to tell when I changed some settings, others, like putting it in reverse I was not able to get working.
I would say to lower the amps down to 1 and see if the pie spins up slower... That will tell let you know if it worked.
Also the settings for 24v-48v seemed to only uncap the speed limit (20mph-30mph)
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Got mine working, a while back I set my regen to 25% and it was too low so put it upto 70% (another easy way to see if changes have worked).. Here was the process:
-Connect only USB cable to 8-pin connector
-Load software
-Click Connect [Should say 'Connect success' on bottom of form window]
-Click 'Get Config'
-Make your changes in form window
-Click 'Store/Save' [Should say 'Store/Save success' on bottom of form window]
-Disconnect. Done.
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-Connect only USB cable to 8-pin connector
-Load software
-Click Connect [Should say 'Connect success' on bottom of form window]
-Click 'Get Config'
-Make your changes in form window
-Click 'Store/Save' [Should say 'Store/Save success' on bottom of form window]
-Disconnect. Done.
thanks for that. Do you mean that the battery connector is not fitted during this procedure?
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-Connect only USB cable to 8-pin connector
-Load software
-Click Connect [Should say 'Connect success' on bottom of form window]
-Click 'Get Config'
-Make your changes in form window
-Click 'Store/Save' [Should say 'Store/Save success' on bottom of form window]
-Disconnect. Done.
thanks for that. Do you mean that the battery connector is not fitted during this procedure?
For me if I have anything connected other than the USB it will fail, so make sure the only thing you have hooked up is the USB.
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^^ ditto ;D
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so I tried again and here is what I get:
-I connect the usb cable to the MP (not the battery)
-I start the program
-I click "connect" and get "connect success" message
when I click on "get config", nothing happens except that it goes immediatly to "factory setting" but I do not get the values from the Pie IN the software
Then when I click "store/save" I have a mesage 'do you want to store or save", I click yes but nothing more
no message: store/save success?????
any idea
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so I tried again and here is what I get:
-I connect the usb cable to the MP (not the battery)
-I start the program
-I click "connect" and get "connect success" message
when I click on "get config", nothing happens except that it goes immediatly to "factory setting" but I do not get the values from the Pie IN the software
Then when I click "store/save" I have a mesage 'do you want to store or save", I click yes but nothing more
no message: store/save success?????
any idea
Change a setting like the amps and save it, if you the click 'get config' and it stays the same everything is fine.
I think you are getting the settings from the pie, they just happen to be the defaults.
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Then when I click "store/save" I have a mesage 'do you want to store or save", I click yes but nothing more
no message: store/save success?????
any idea
I suspect it might have something to do with your yellow wire being connected to the reverse connection "d" on the controller instead of the data receive "rx" connection.
Check out this post (http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=2171.msg11789#msg11789).
Since we have made changes to controller software, therefore only new version of Magic Pie and External Cruise Controller are programmable.
If your Pie was produced prior to the middle of March 2010, it's unlikely that the USB interface cable will be able to program it.
Alan
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It looks like the connection is OK as I have the message "connect success"
also I have the external cruise control button and it is working.
the values of max current in the boxes are both at 1A and this is obviously not what I have in the Pie. ??? ???So I don't understand
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So you’re saying that you changed the values to 1A for both boxes?
If that’s the case when you click 'Get config' do they change? If it’s not changing, click the 'factory default' option and then 'get config' see if it sets them back to 30A/50A.
I have to be honest; I don’t think you have any issue... All the symptoms you’re giving me are the exact same I get when programming my Pie, the only difference is that you think something is wrong when quite honestly I don’t see an issue.
Try to be more detailed in what you’re doing, for instance:
I click connect > Change the amps to 1 for both boxes > click save/store > then click get config > Nothing Changes
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I've got it ;)
In fact, I had the message "connect success" but No real communication, so that I was unable to read the existing values in the Pie by the "get config" button or to store my mods in the Pie. The values I was reading were just the default data file from the programming software.
the reason was that my pie was set-up for Reverse button and so the yellow wire was already used.
I changed the place of the wire and now I can read the values and change them 8)
Thanks
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I don't think GM wants anyone to tx their software, so no data out. Only change software setting that the programming calls to from another storage memory area more likely or maybe on a different level on the processor.
This software is designed to fetch the low level programming but it is not enabled through this USB cable.
Not sure about all of this but it seems we are uncovering these things slowly.
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After having my first burned controller replaced and successfully connected it the config software, I´m interessted to know the best and save configuration. Has anyone experience in the best config for the best range for the 48 volt system? What is recommended for peak Amps? Regen brake on 100 is to much. What value do you have?
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I set my max amps to 11 to set it to 500 watts max. It works perfectly and I get a max speed of 39kph. I'm going to reset it soon so higher amps to see if I get a higher max speed.
Setting it to lower amps is nice because it makes your battery last longer, and I get quite acceptable acceleration despite the low setting.
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I set my max amps to 11 to set it to 500 watts max. It works perfectly and I get a max speed of 39kph. I'm going to reset it soon so higher amps to see if I get a higher max speed.
Setting it to lower amps is nice because it makes your battery last longer, and I get quite acceptable acceleration despite the low setting.
You do realize that the max volts for the Pie is rated at 60v tops. This does not mean 5 SLA's it means 60v max.
Meaning if you can isolate the controller from batteries when charging you can get another 6v SLA in there.
Your SLA's fully charged should be around 52v at resting and a 6v SLA no more than 7.5v The caps are rated at 63v and fets 75v so there is a little head room. And they do overrate the caps by 5%~10% but don't trust that..
If you rig up a switch so you cant have a charger on and the controller on at the same time the inrush and resistance of the regulators should pull any surface standby charge off and your controller will accept these voltages. any more than 63v and the controller caps will break down.
You should get another 5~6 kph and about 4 km more range.
If I can get a good look at the circuit I would like to trace a wire I have noticed that is called soft off. This just may allow a resistor on it and if you replace the 63v caps with 100v caps you can have a much safer overvolt. After cap mod and soft off mod no more than 70v and maybe a little less.
But alas! These are drastic measures "I" would definitely try, but those who like a "whine" with their Pie and just about everything else stay away from modding.
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That's a great idea... I wonder if there's something I could put between a 5th SLA and the Pie to ensure it never goes over 60V (or under ;))
I did some more testing, and against the wind the Pie really is terrible with the 500 watts - or even 650 which is about the highest I ever got. It needs to have way more power for that, and unfortunately the power is very restricted. I expected to see power matching my scooter when it's using 1000 watts because the Pie is supposed to perform like a 1000 watt motor...
For now, I'll just keep on peddling along with it when it's windy. I've noticed ducking really low helps a lot too hehe.
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Hey magneato
what settings are you running man?
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I've tried lots of settings - 11A, 12A, 15A, 25A, 30A. I just finished with 12A and put it up to 25A - which runs the same as 30A based on current experience.
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And the same or different voltage settings?? ie. 24/36/48v
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I have been using 48V settings the whole time.
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Hey mate
Change the setting to 24v even if you are running 48v, and then go for a ride, then come back and post what you think :)
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Hey mate
Change the setting to 24v even if you are running 48v, and then go for a ride, then come back and post what you think :)
And make sure you keep checking the motor temp after you change the settings each time. Warm is OK and hot is not.
Look for differences in torque improvements at high RPM too.
I will confer the 24v setting made my MP's function more powerfully.
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Okay an update here... And thankfully my cable still works!!
I have been toying with port listening and a few bits and pieces trying to decipher the comms. to the controller from the USB cable.
The following has been established:
-Communication is 5v serial to the controller.
-There are 4 wires going from the USB connector to the controller - red, black, yellow and GREEN
-Method is hexadecimal, I can communicate with 9600bps, 8Data bits, No parity and 1 stop bit, no flow control but I am still not 100% if this is the correct throughput values.
-When connecting to the PI-200 software, it pulls TX to gnd, the controller then pulls the cruise control signal high - which feeds back to the USB connector. I think here if that input pin is HIGH it allows the programming, as this happens when the software reads 'connect success'
I'm still not 100% sure of the accurateness of the data, but I'm sure with a bit of practice I can work this out.
Example of connect string:
55 55 55 55 55 55 55 55 55 55 55 55 55 55 55
Disconnect string:
2A 2A 2A 2A 2A 2A 2A 2A 2A 2A 2A 2A 2A 2A 2A
Get Config string
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
The attached text file was just some quick notes I made. Top part showing a note from a save file from the PI-200 software (read this with a HEX edit program) then the 'output to controller' part is from listening to a serial port monitor.
LOL also - did you know there is 2 LED's inside the USB connector housing, haha a RED one for power, and a amber one that shows ready status. They should have put a window in that thing!!
From what I can tell, the software sends the data in 3/4 lots
>Current, voltage & regen
>PAS on/off, PAS direction, Reverse on/off, Reverse Immediate/from stop
>Motor type (DC/BLDC) / PHASE, FWD speed, REV speed
>Lastly it looks be part of lot 3 but it seems to be power duty settings
TOM - if you read this can you please confirm how I would program the MagicPie with my own portable microcontroller ?
1. Do I first need to apply 5v to the controller, then bring TX to ground to enable programming?
2. Can you please confirm the baud rate and serial parameters?
3. Is it possible for you to provide an example here? --> Apply 5v to controller, use these settings to communicate, then send this string... ??
The reason I'm doing this is for many reasons, but I can build a graphic touch screen, basically a custom CA that will show everything a CA does but allow me to change settings (legal mode) etc. hehe
We can then make the Pie a snail at the touch of a screen or enable/disable various functions.
I personally want to adjust the current on the fly, so when a big hill approaches I can have a half second delay while the PIE reconfigures to POWER mode, then after the hill I can change back to limit the current etc so its smooth riding :)
Thoughts anyone? I'm close !!
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I thought I read earlier that you can only communicate when the battery is not connected, how can you change parameters on the fly.
Pete (Newbie sorting out my son-in-law's twin pie)
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I'll forgive you for being a newbie :D
Well basically - you switch the power off first. Duhh ;)
Haha techincally - you do this via solid state/latching relays that are pulsed or switched with a lower voltage.
I run 48v + 12v lithium pack. 48v for the wheels and 12v for the accessories.
I'll be using a pair of latching relays. They are beginning to become a part of mine and Les' family I'm seeing haha
Having the secondary power source allows me to wire in remote start, alarm etc.
Anyway the plan is to make a GUI touchscreen that can control parameters on the fly as well as log other data.
I'm expecting the total delay will be no more than 1 second. I'm getting closer with the comms though!!
Give me a week and I will have a basic circuit to switch the pie power connector off, apply 5v to the signal wires via a circuit, then spit some strings at it to see if I can change regen, total speed and currents on the move.
I feel it's really unnecessary to nearly fall off the bike when applying throttle at speed when I can make a circuit that has 'take off' , 'hill' and cruise mode.
yay
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Woooooo who's a clever boy then !!!!!
The only thing that would worry me would be the massive feedback from the motor when you switch off the power???
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Hey mate
I'm not sure what you mean by feedback! Anyway will be good to get this happenin :)
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Good morning
By feedback I meant when the MP suddenly changes from a 48volt motor to a three phase AC generator with no battery to absorb the load. Is the protection circuitry in the controller up to the job???
Just a thought !!!!!!!
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Oh I see, and yes you are 100% correct, apart from the motor spontaneously turning into an AC motor, its a brushless DC motor :D
I know if I ride my bike at speed without the controller on, I can get throttle lights and even power LED's from the power output of the wheel....
What I don't get is, any action from the controller - and with the controller 'not on' then I assume I can still program it, if I can do that. hmmmm
So there is some signs that point to NO here but I'm still gunna try !!
Hey you have been playing around with the cable - have you had any luck on connecting? Or were you using the GM cable
Cheers
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He said AC generator not AC motor, AC is what comes from a coil that passes a N and S orientated magnet. What he was talking about though is when the connection to the battery is severed the rider may induce the brakes and trigger regen. At high RPM if there is no path to the battery and regen is left unchecked and starts firing away at you caps. Magnets and coils in regen induction can generated hundreds of volts in the milliamps if they have no load to keep the sharp voltage tail of rapidly expansion and avalanche magnetic field moments from opposing polarities.
The 63v cap and field effect transistor is sensitive to high voltage spikes and begin to fail either ultra fast or over time.
In essence you need an AC compatible circuit to pass current in two directions.
A spike can be so fast and small in width, as magnetic resolution and energy transmission is subatomic and IMO can effect the ion bonding of barrier materials in electronic components abroad. Where as digital resolution of most microprocessors again IMO is not up to the task. For the short term the EM sensor may give some protection but the end result will always be the same.
Analogue sensors would be faster but still you have to have a spike to trigger it and in this situation the egg always comes before the chicken.
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Could not have put it better myself.!!!!!!!!
in other words BANG.
Pete
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Hello,
sorry for my bad english.
I have a problem, I have the BAC-02?? controller and PI-0200E
external interface.
My Question: where do I socket for PI-0200E in the BAC -02?? Controller.
Have a picture or a guide?!
best regards
chris
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My Question: where do I socket for PI-0200E in the BAC -02?? Controller.
Have a picture or a guide?!
Welcome to the forum Chris.
The lead should plug straight into the controller as shown in the attached picture below.
The picture quality is pretty poor, but the connection will hopefully be obvious.
Alan
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Could not have put it better myself.!!!!!!!!
in other words BANG.
Pete
Geeez okay well I'll install 3 transistors inside the hub casing, there's plenty of room in there anyway. That will stop any exclamation marks flying around ;) You could even put 3 latching relays in there if you want to get clunky.
Quick thought of code to go like this:
1.switch off controller battery power
2.delay
3.switch off fets
4delay
5check for voltage on fet emitter
6.if voltage exceeds X then goto 5. else continue
7.program wheel with desired settings
8delay
9.switch on fets
10.switch on battery power
go baby go
I'll connect the base signal wire to my unused PAS wiring. BANG
I can always just set my bike to 'power/economy' mode before commuting anyway. Or I can ride and think "hmmm my regen is not strong enough" then next set of lights or stop I can adjust it. I don't adjust it that often, but would be good to have this option with a weekend worth of work once I understand the comms.
If/when I get pulled up by the cops I can also set it to snail mode at the push of a button via an interrupt, when if I had a push on/off switch somewhere that could be found it may be a different story.
Not really sure what the worry is, I'm sure you have ridden your bike with the battery connected/disconnected to the wheel at speed. It's still connected to the controller right?
You guys and your AC scare tactics trying to put a stick in monkeys spokes!
hehe
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You could even put 3 latching relays in there if you want to get clunky.
If you used 6 latching relays you could then switch the windings between Delta (high speed), Star (high torque) and Neither (100% disconnected from the controller to allow programming).
Although it could cause a major problem if one of the relays became stuck in the closed position, because you could end up shorting together two of the phase wires on the controller, and I'm guessing that would encourage really big exclamation marks to start flying around in there.:o
Alan
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Ahhh cool yes good thinkin that can be thrown into the recipe too
You could also check the state/configuration of the relays through the code, but knowing my initial testing experiences I would have that happen for sure lol
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Hey, I am from germany, new in this forum. Who can exlain me "reverse mode"?Isn´t that the same as "regen brake"?
Thank you! :)
ramses
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Hi Ramses and(https://i.imgur.com/evDSMvT.png)to the forum.
Reverse is not the same as Regenerative Braking, Regen can only be used while moving, and it's usually operated by the switch on the brake lever while braking to give an additional electromagnetic braking effect which also recharges the battery at the same time.It can be wired to the horn button as well as the brake switches, to allow Regen to be used without touching the brakes
The Reverse option simply allows the direction of the motor to be changed by simply operating a switch, which would then allow the throttle to be used to power the bike in reverse to assist in manoeuvring the bike backwards up slopes etc.
The software setting for the reverse scale speed should be set reasonably low to ensure the bike does not try to go too fast in reverse should you accidentally apply too much throttle.
A suitable switch would need to be wired up and Reverse would have to be enabled in the software settings before the Reverse function can be used, some Magic Pies with internal controllers were pre-configured in the software (and also pre-wired) to allow Reverse to be operated using the square red switch on the throttle body, but not all of the internal controllers were wired to allow the Reverse function to be used. :(
I think it should be possible to use reverse with all of the external cruise controllers if a switch is wired between the "R" and "Z/0V" connections on the controller.
Alan
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Thank you Alan : :) :)b now I kwow A bit more. What parameters would you propose (36V,12Ah)
But more question: about PAS, what means "low,middle,high":
What about "anti Theft" I hear no "no beep" ???
What about PAS? I wait for 2 beeps but there4 was no beep!
Thank you
ramses
j
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The parameters will depend on which motor you have. If you have the HBS or the Magic Pie, try the following:
- Max Continuous Current = 30 Amps (9 Amps @36V should give ~250Watts continuous output power @ 77% efficiency for legal requirements)
- Max Peak Current = 50 Amps
- PAS = Low (can be increased if assistance is too low)
- Motor Voltage = 24V (This sometimes provides more torque than the 36V setting)
- Forward Scale Speed = 100% (you may need to reduce this to comply with legal requirements)
- Reverse = Enable, mode = Unimm (The wheel must be stopped before reverse will operate) and set Reverse Scale Speed to 25% to start with
- Regen Brake = 50% (This can be increased or decreased to suit your personal preference)
I think the Low, Mid and High for the Pedal Assist will set the amount of assistance from the motor in relation to the pedal speed.
The Pedal Assist Mode should start automatically on the later controllers, so don't expect to hear the 2 beeps.
I don't think the Anti Theft Function does actually work on the later controllers, but if anyone has managed to get it working on a later controller, please let us know.
Alan
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Hi,
I started a new topic Self-made PI-200I cablehttp://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=2870.msg17442#msg17442 (http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=2870.msg17442#msg17442)
perhaps seomebody can help me.
Thanks