Dead Magic Pie or can I resuscitate it????

[DirtyGinge]

fingers crossed.. , hope ive been of some help... ...remember....KISS, simple rule, so so so many applications ....

[MonkeyMagic]

fingers crossed.. , hope I've been of some help... ...remember....KISS, simple rule, so so so many applications ....

huh?

lol

[robertozm]

fingers crossed.. , hope I've been of some help... ...remember....KISS, simple rule, so so so many applications ....

Sorry but english is not my mother language and I don't get the joke 
But thanks also for your help and to everybody that has replied in this post 

Thanks

[Bikemad]

It's not really a joke Roberto, its just another way of conveying some useful advice:

KISS is an acronym for the design principle "Keep it simple, Stupid!".[1] Other variations include "keep it short and simple"[2], "keep it simple AND stupid" or "keep it simple and straightforward".[3] The KISS principle states that simplicity should be a key goal in design, and that unnecessary complexity should be avoided.

Making things too complicated can sometimes cause more problems than you started with!

Alan
 

[robertozm]

It's not really a joke Roberto, its just another way of conveying some useful advice:

KISS is an acronym for the design principle "Keep it simple, Stupid!".[1] Other variations include "keep it short and simple"[2], "keep it simple AND stupid" or "keep it simple and straightforward".[3] The KISS principle states that simplicity should be a key goal in design, and that unnecessary complexity should be avoided.

Making things too complicated can sometimes cause more problems than you started with!

Alan
 

AHHH  OK So I will try to KISS the bike  
To keep it more simple, if I do forget about regen the battery 2, can I forget about the Diodes, or on the contrary they are extrictly neccesary?

Thanks to everyone

[DirtyGinge]

oops, missing for a day, and ive caused mayhem, thanks alan.....i had stated the meaning further up the forum but apologies all......

[robertozm]

oops, missing for a day, and I've caused mayhem, thanks alan.....i had stated the meaning further up the forum but apologies all......

No need for apologies at all.  That was the idea I have and posted on 2th April, but I didnt know tha "KISS" meant that.  You have improve my vocabulary!!!

...therefore even if it means that I will have to drill new holes and cover old ones I will go for the more "basic" solution of a battery isolator switch.
I have found one at a marine spare part shop, for 17€ but it is quite big and the guy at the shop has told me that on Monday he will speak with his supplier to look for a smaller one. 
I am going to try to keep it as simply as possible as I have done reducing the connectors.  Less electronics/connections = less posibilities of something going wrong.[/size]
 

Roberto

[robertozm]

Hi guys:
Yesterday I finished re rewiring etc...  And went for a ride.  I had to come back home since my rear breaks is the regen of the hub and it wasn´t working.  When I get home, I touched everything to see if they were correctly conected and found out that the diode was really hot, so I decided to take it out of the circuit and leave as as when I had only one battery connected. 

Once done that, I went off again.   Voltage around 39volt, 28amp and 820w max, and the regen working again, I hit full throttle for about 15 minutes, up and down hill also some flat, using the regen a lot, and when going up a good hill the hub just stopped.  
Unlike than in previous fairlures, this time the cycle analist was on and the lights and horn worked.  
Nothing seemed hot except the hub motor that was hot but you could thouch it with out feeling that you were burning...  I decided to go back walking and after five minutes while pedalling I tried and I when of again, but was late and when arrived home I put boht batteries to recharge.

I am going to go again now and I will take a few tools with me, because if the hub motor stopped but the cycle and light where working, that meant that one of the batteries was still working, so if something was wrong now I going to disconect each one including the bms of the circuit...


Does anyone have a clue what might be wrong?  Does the hub motor have a temperature sensor that kills the engine if the limit is reach?  If so, what is that limit temp?  How can I monitor the temp


Roberto
 

[GM Canada]

Hi Roberto,

Is this an internal Magic Pie? If so its probably the "shut down when hot" system kicking in. It shuts down for about 5 mins then will go again. Try timing it to see how long before it goes again. I recall when I ran one pie it used to shut down 3/4 of the way to work. My rolling wieght with myself the bike and the trailor is over 400 lbs. I was driving it full throttle all the way on a gradual climb all the way to work and it was to much for the motor. Once I added a CA and limited the speed to 32k the motor had chances to rest and it went all the way without shutdown. If it shuts down on a regular basis you my need to limit the amperage with a USB cable or Cycle Analyst.

Gary

[robertozm]

Hi Roberto,

Is this an internal Magic Pie? If so its probably the "shut down when hot" system kicking in. It shuts down for about 5 mins then will go again. Try timing it to see how long before it goes again. I recall when I ran one pie it used to shut down 3/4 of the way to work. My rolling wieght with myself the bike and the trailor is over 400 lbs. I was driving it full throttle all the way on a gradual climb all the way to work and it was to much for the motor. Once I added a CA and limited the speed to 32k the motor had chances to rest and it went all the way without shutdown. If it shuts down on a regular basis you my need to limit the amperage with a USB cable or Cycle Analyst.

Gary

Hi Gary:
Yes is an internal controller Magic Pie, and unfortunetly is the version nº1, so I don't have way to change anything in the controller, since I don't have any usb cable.

You mention you added a CA, whats that?? A cycle Analyst? because I have one, and the maximum speed I achieve is 39km/h going downhil, and the maximum amp recorded in the cycle analyst is 42,23amp.

My weight is about 95kg +30kg of the bike wiht the 2 baterries.  I don't know if this is to much.  When I am making the test I don't pedall at all, and I push it quite hard I may recognize, because I take all the hills I find, and most of the time on full throttle...  
Do you know at what temp does the system shuts down?  What amperage limit must I have to establish through the cycle analist?

Thanks
Roberto

[Bikemad]

Is this an internal Magic Pie? If so its probably the "shut down when hot" system kicking in. It shuts down for about 5 mins then will go again.

Gary is right Roberto, the controllers were modified to include a temperature cut out to prevent the internal controller (and presumably the stator windings) from overheating:

As of today, 22/7/2009, the day of the eclipse, all GoldenMotor controllers have a new function to deal with the issue of regen braking burning out the controller while battery is off. Took 2 weeks for project AntiPyro to be completed. Thanks for your support!
The Controller will shut down automatically when a current than higher than a certain value in the controller. (Value to be confirmed)

GM is currently developing another function, a Temperature sensor. If the temperature of the controller goes above a certain value, the controller, again, will be shut down.

I think your original problem my be due to a fault with battery 1. Now you have the second battery connected, there is 50% less load on the original battery and the Low Voltage Cutoff is probably not being activated because of the greatly reduced load.

If you repeat your last ride with the second battery disconnected, I think you may find that your original fault will return again (total loss of battery voltage), before the controller's temperature becomes high enough to activate the automatic shut down function.

I don't think that disconnecting the BMS is a very good idea, as it is probably working correctly and cutting out due to the voltage of a faulty group of cell falling below their lower safe working limit under load.
Removing the BMS would allow the faulty cells to become even more drained, making their poor condition even worse. Also, using the battery without the BMS could cause irreversible damage to the other remaining good cells if they become overdischarged.

Alan
 

[robertozm]

Is this an internal Magic Pie? If so its probably the "shut down when hot" system kicking in. It shuts down for about 5 mins then will go again.

Gary is right Roberto, the controllers were modified to include a temperature cut out to prevent the internal controller (and presumably the stator windings) from overheating:

As of today, 22/7/2009, the day of the eclipse, all GoldenMotor controllers have a new function to deal with the issue of regen braking burning out the controller while battery is off. Took 2 weeks for project AntiPyro to be completed. Thanks for your support!
The Controller will shut down automatically when a current than higher than a certain value in the controller. (Value to be confirmed)

GM is currently developing another function, a Temperature sensor. If the temperature of the controller goes above a certain value, the controller, again, will be shut down.

I think your original problem my be due to a fault with battery 1. Now you have the second battery connected, there is 50% less load on the original battery and the Low Voltage Cutoff is probably not being activated because of the greatly reduced load.

If you repeat your last ride with the second battery disconnected, I think you may find that your original fault will return again (total loss of battery voltage), before the controller's temperature becomes high enough to activate the automatic shut down function.

I don't think that disconnecting the BMS is a very good idea, as it is probably working correctly and cutting out due to the voltage of a faulty group of cell falling below their lower safe working limit under load.
Removing the BMS would allow the faulty cells to become even more drained, making their poor condition even worse. Also, using the battery without the BMS could cause irreversible damage to the other remaining good cells if they become overdischarged.

Alan

 
I bought my pie on octuber 2009, and I hope they have the temp function, but what worries me is that now is not really hot around here we are about 20ºC, but in summer we achieve 45ºC, so I don't know, maybe the temp sensor is broken as well.

About the batery when I said I wanted to disconected even the bms, was to disconect the "batery pack" that is the battery with its BMS, but the batery left should be working with its own BMS.

I hope you are wrong this time with the faulty cells, because to know which ones are the wrong ones is a pain in the ass and because to repair it means spending money, and I don't like it!!!

I will go for a ride tomorrow morning, and make the diferent tests.

Thanks
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