Damage to VEC500 from contactor???

[Rossfree21@gmail.com]

I bench tested a controller / 10KW golden motor / 48v 20Kw lifepo battery bank. It worked well. I designed an interface between a sail-drive and the 10kw motor and in the process of hooking this up on my boat I added the contactor provided by GM. Following the wiring diagram on their website I connected the red wire of the E-Lock connector to one side of the contractor coil. To the pink wire I added a second wire that was connected to battery +.

When I pressed the power button on the throttle the contactor slammed shut providing power to the system. But the motor did not run. No sounds, no power button light, no hum. I made sure the throttle was in neutral position before I pressed the power button. Then I advanced the throttle forward and back carefully. No sound, no hum, no movement.

I checked all wiring. I checked for power at the contactor and between the B+ and B- poles of the VEC500. I had power. The fuse was good. All connections were tight.

I have two controllers as I will be running two motors. I installed the second controller. I got the same results.

Removing the controllers, and connecting them through the programming cable to my computer, each displayed five LED pulses ( Hall Input Abnormal). This was when everything was disconnected from the controller except for the programming cable so that may be why?

I removed and bypassed the contactor as it was the only thing I could think of that was different from when I bench tested the system. Still, no joy. I double checked, triple checked all wiring to the controller, battery, throttle... all good. All connections tight.

In software, I made only a few changes from the default program. I changed the battery voltage from 72 to 48 volts nominal. And I changed the throttle input to potentiometer. I also disabled over-temperature protection (for the time being), regenerative braking, cruise control, gears function and boost.

Nothing I have done has helped. I have swapped drives over and over as I made changes, pulling the contractors, swapping hall connectors, disabling functions I didn't need.

The only thing I can conclude is the contactor may have damaged the controllers. There are no wiring diagrams showing a reverse bias diode across the contactor coil and no diodes came in the controller kit. But I have since seen other wiring diagrams where diodes were added across contractors or relays.

I have a second 10 kw motor still in it's box. When I finished wiring and testing the first motor assembly on the starboard side I was going to duplicate everything to the port-side of the boat.

Has anyone else had issues with connecting the provided contactor to their system? What can I do that I haven't already tried?

Ross

[Bikemad]

Hi Ross andto the forum.

I do hope that both controllers have not been damaged from the contactor

Here are a few questions/suggestions which might help to locate the cause:

When the controller first powers up, do you get a single blink from the controller's LED?

When you move the throttle, and the motor does not run, is there an error code displayed? (a series of blinks from the controller's LED)

Is your Throttle mode selection set to 0:Hyperbola?

Is your throttle signal voltage (Green and White wire) within the minimum and maximum valid voltage range?
(Measured relative to the Black and White throttle wire.)

If your throttle signal voltage is too low, check the +5V supply on the Red and White wire (measured relative to the Black and White throttle wire.)

Are you sure that the changed parameters are being saved correctly?
Read the parameters again from the controller to check the altered settings have been correctly saved, as the program icons tend to be a bit ambiguous:



I would also set the Speed throttle type back to 0:Hall effect throttle as this should work with most throttle types.

I found out over the weekend what the culprit was: simply setting the throttle type in my settings to 'potentiometer throttle' causes the controller to emit an undocumented error code that the Goldenmotor people interpreted as internal controller damage that needed me sending in the controller, "entirely at my own cost " (up to $400). Setting it back to HAL effect throttle appeared to magically repair the internal damage and everything worked as before (saving me the $400). Everything is working fine now. I am now using a potentiometer with HALL effect as setting, but hey, all the controller input is really interested in is a voltage

Make sure your USB programming cable has been unplugged from the controller before powering the controller up.

I don't know what else to suggest, but I really hope it's something simple to locate and easy to rectify.



Alan
 

[Rossfree21@gmail.com]

Thank you Alan,

I will try all you have mentioned and get right back with my results!

Ross

[Rossfree21@gmail.com]

When the controller first powers up, do you get a single blink from the controller's LED?

No. The only time I see the LED blink is when I connect it to the laptop through the programming cable. It blinks five times and repeats.

When you move the throttle, and the motor does not run, is there an error code displayed? (a series of blinks from the controller's LED)

No. See above.

Is your Throttle mode selection set to 0:Hyperbola?

Yes. Curiously, when I first started to bench test back in Nov/Dec, I believe I was told to change the throttle to potentiometer. I also changed the battery voltage setting from 72 to 48. Once I made those changes it started working. I always thought it was the “potentiometer setting” that got things working. Too long ago to remember at this point.

Is your throttle signal voltage (Green and White wire) within the minimum and maximum valid voltage range?
(Measured relative to the Black and White throttle wire.)

No. I get no voltage across any pins to the throttle control with the throttle power button ‘on’.

If your throttle signal voltage is too low, check the +5V supply on the Red and White wire (measured relative to the Black and White throttle wire.)

Zero volts between red and white. 54v between B+ and B-.

Are you sure that the changed parameters are being saved correctly?

Yes. Loading and saving parameters seems to work fine. Also, the power button light doesn’t illuminate. It did during bench tests.

This is acting like I lost my 5v supply. Is there a fuse I can check in the controller or would that void my warranty?

Thanks for all of your help!

Ross

[Bikemad]

Hi Ross,

It does sound like your Controller's +5V supply has been disabled.

Unfortunately, I don't think there are any user replaceable fuses inside the controller, but the attached picture of the VEC500 circuit board clearly shows a zero Ohm resistor (circled in yellow) which may be designed to act as a fuse, and I'm wondering whether this could have been overloaded somehow by the contactor wiring.

If you are concerned about voiding your warranty by removing the cover, contact your supplier first and explain the situation.

Check out this thread for a similar failure of a VEC300 controller.

My other concern is the way your contactor was wired (albeit exactly as per their "WITH CONTACTOR" diagram). If the pink wire is permanently connected to Battery +, the controller would continually receive battery voltage through the pink wire even when the contactor is switched Off. This does not seem to make sense to me as the pink wire is used to activate the controller, therefore the controller could possibly be permanently activated when it is wired as per the "WITH CONTACTOR" diagram.

I would have thought the pink wire should be connected to the the switched side of the e-lock connector to ensure the controller is completely disconnected from the battery when the e-lock is turned Off.
The diode may be required to prevent any voltage spikes produced by the collapsing magnetic field in the contactor coils from reaching the controller when the e-switch is turned Off.



However, if the VEC controllers do have some form of precharge circuitry which is reliant upon the battery feed to the pink wire, then this configuration may not work properly.

With the original wiring, when the contactor is Off, the main battery + supply would obviously be disconnected from the controller, but I'm now wondering if the controller might be able to pull current via internal circuitry (or possibly an integrated precharge resistor?) connected to the pink wire when the throttle is moved and (if my suspicions are correct) the controller is permanently activated.

Perhaps the zero Ohm resistor has "blown" on both controllers, and is now preventing them from being activated. 
If the controllers are no longer able to be activated, that would explain the loss of the +5V supply.

Alan
 

[Tommycat]

If you are concerned about voiding your warranty by removing the cover, contact your supplier first and explain the situation.

Things I'd recommend testing whilst you wait for the reply... 

Eliminate the contactor for now, wiring and configurations as per your original working set-up.
Jumper the E-lock connector directly, eliminating the switch on the throttle.
With system energized, is full voltage available thru the pink wire to pin #10 on connector? Bottom row, far right. (pins O.K. and sockets seated?) As well as to B+ and thru main fuse.

Still no 5vdc?
Disconnect all peripheral devices, perhaps one has been shorted to ground. (including hall sensor connector...) If 5vdc controller regulated power returns, plug each one in, one at a time till the issue returns.

If a flyback diode is desired, I'd recommend installation as shown below...



This allows the harmful build up of potential overvoltage to freewheel harmlessly back thru the coil when power to coil is shut off.

Is the coil current draw less than 2 amps?


Regards,
T.C.

[Rossfree21@gmail.com]

Thank you both for your suggestions. I have ordered diodes (3A 600V) and will NOT put the contactors in again without one across the coil. Alan, I’m not familiar with putting the diode in series like was shown in your diagram.

There’s not a lot more that I can do to test but I will connect B+ and B- to the battery and look for 5 volts directly on the main connector pins. It has to be present for the power switch to work. If it’s not there then that’s as far as I can go.

Thank you again! It means a lot when people take the time to read your post and make suggestions that may solve your issues. You’ve been very responsive and helped me feel supported through this!

I’ll let you know what I find.

Ross

[Rossfree21@gmail.com]

Problem solved:

It was my error. I was plugging the multi-pin connector backwards into the controller. In my defense, I shouldn’t be able to plug it in backwards but I did.

When I received the controller and wire harness the harness and shrink tubing around the connector was be bent towards the fuse when plugged in.

As installed in my boat, the harness hangs down below the controller as it is mounted on the wall with the multi-connector near the bottom edge.

When plugging in, the connector naturally wanted to hang down flipping the connector over in my hand. I am used to large multi-pin connectors being stiff and somewhat hard to insert so it did not cross my mind that I could be inserting this connector incorrectly. It is unusual that a keyed connector can be inserted wrong at all.

But I did and it was my bad.

I appreciate the help and encouragement. Thank you again!

Ross

Sent from my iPhone

[Bikemad]

Alan, I’m not familiar with putting the diode in series like was shown in your diagram.

I'd had a long and busy day yesterday and my brain obviously wasn't fully awake. My initial thought was that the diode would prevent any back EMF from reaching the controller through the Pink wire, but I neglected to consider the polarity of the induced voltage from the collapsing magnetic field in the relay coil windings.

To avoid any further confusion I have amended the diagram so the diode is now correctly placed across the contactor's coil terminals, just as it should have been in the first place:

I don't know what else to suggest, but I really hope it's something simple to locate and easy to rectify.

Whilst it wasn't as "simple to locate" as I'd initially hoped, at least it was "easy to rectify" when you eventually located it. 

Anyway, I'm very pleased that you've got it sorted as I can now uncross my fingers again. 

I'm very surprised that the pink wire did not melt with the connector reversed, as you would have effectively connected an unfused battery supply directly through the Pink wire to Pin 21 (Hall Sensor Ground connection). 

Presumably, the reversed connector did not plug in far enough for the Hall Sensor Ground pin to actually make contact with the Pink wire's terminal.

Alan
 

[Rossfree21@gmail.com]

Yeah… I don’t want to THINK about what could have happened shoving that connector in backwards. I love the drive! I’m not too enamored with the connector. But we got there in the end.

Glad you got the diode across the coil.

Now I have to figure out a way to reverse the throttle voltage so the motor turns the opposite direction. I want to put two throttles side by side as you would see on a boat. The housings are designed to allow you to move the throttle handle to the opposite side. I’m sure swapping wires is easy enough. I’m just not familiar with hall sensors to do it.

Ross

[Tommycat]

Great to hear you got the issue resolved!

I suspect after researching that connector and pin-outs, that something has changed. In particular, the location of the "electric lock" input pin. And it's associated wire color. This would be a good thing.



Ross if you would have a minuet, see if the PINK wire actually goes to pin #9 which I suspect. (1 before the last one to the right, bottom row) This could explain why your controllers are not damaged, and allow Bikeman to perhaps make corrections with the manufacture's wiring diagrams.
If it's still in the #10 position, go play the Lotto A.S.A.P.! 

As far as leaving the Pink wire connection at the original suggested wiring position. I'd go with the original after checking to see that there is NO current draw thru the E-lock wire with the battery contactor off, or main battery power to controller OFF. This would isolate the E-lock circuit from any potential coil feed back damage.  But I would still install the flywheel diode to protect the on/off switch.

See you over in the throttle thread. 

Regards,
T.C.

[Bikemad]

Hi T.C.

I have studied several of the LingBo pinout diagrams for different controllers (unfortunately, I couldn't find on for this particular controller) and some use pin 9 to activate the controller and others use pin 10.

Nothing is ever straightforward.

Alan