5kW Electric Go Kart With VEC300

[Reichen.Schaller]

   Before starting off I want to one, introduce myself, and two, say that I tried making a new topic on my issue before but the website seemed to have an issue and I can’t seem to tell whether or not it was published. I tried checking my profile to see if it showed it or general discussion but it showed up in neither so I am going to attempt to re-post it.

   My name is Reichen Schaller and I am currently a high school student. I am building a 72-Volt 5 KW electric go-kart. I am using golden motor’s VEC300 and their 5kw water-cooled BLDC motor.

   My Equipment
1. VEC300
2. 6 6s 6000 mah Lipo Batteries
3. 5kw Golden Motor Water Cooled Motor
4. A random amazon thumb throttle (https://www.amazon.com/Ebike-Throttle-Scotter-Eletrric-Accessories/dp/B08S3SNWCG/ref=sr_1_5?dchild=1&keywords=Ebike+Throttle+EZKT&qid=1632861451&sr=8-5)
5. Golden Motor’s official programming cable

   My Issue
After connecting the motor and throttle, plugging in the cable, programming it, and disconnecting it. (All with the power on) Nothing happens when I turn the throttle

   What I Know
1. My fuse isn’t blown
2. My controller terminals are getting the batteries full voltage
3. My e-lock is connected
4. I wrote the programming software to the controller (I pressed the button, not sure if you have to do more)

   What I Want to Know
How do I tell if my throttle works
Is my controller programmed correctly
Do all the plugs on the controller need to be connected for it to run (electric brake, cruise
control, etc)

   Important to Note
1. Whenever the controller is connected to my computer via the cable, even if nothing is plugged in, the red light flashes to indicate a motor over-current protection issue
2. My computer is using the newest PI-800 software
3. I am using windows 10
4. If you are having issues getting your computer to recognize the com port of your controller like I did you might need to download the drivers for it. Another post on the forum lead me to this website to get the drivers: (http://www.wch-ic.com/downloads/CH341SER_EXE.html)
5. I will attach pictures of the kart in the next reply to this post, right now I am just trying to get my topic started.

[Reichen.Schaller]

   So I tried attaching pictures of my motor settings and the cart but both times it failed somehow. So, I am going to write out the motor programming settings and hope I will be able to figure out the image/attachment thing at some point in time. Also, some of the data in the motor programming software have weird symbols next to them (I haven’t tried learning the science behind electricity), these are hard to type so I am going to skip adding those.

   Motor Parameters
Hall Electrical Angle: 120
Phase Angle Offset: -120
Number of Pole Pairs: 5
Rated Motor Speed (rpm): 5000

   Voltage Parameter Settings
Nominal Battery Voltage (V):72
High Voltage Protection Value (V): 90.0
High Voltage Exit Value (V): 86.0
Minimum Work Voltage (V): 50.0
Low Voltage Protection Value (V): 63.0
Low Voltage Protection Exit Value (V): 2.0
Low Voltage Protection Enable: 1:Enable
Low Voltage Triggering Current Reducing (V): 66.0
Clear Undervoltage State While Throttle Off: 0:Disable

   Current Parameter Settings
Starting Phase Current (A): 15.0
Maximum Phase Current (A) 280.0
Maximum Phase Current Duration (s) 0.0
Rated Phase Current (A): 280.0
Battery Drawn Current Limit (A): 110.0

   Temperature Settings
Motor Overtemperature Protection Enable: 0:Disable
Motor Current Limit Temperature (Level 1): 120
Motor Current Limit Temperature (Level 2): 130
Maximum Motor Protection Temperature: 150
Motor Temperature Protection Exit Value: 20

   Motor Blockage Settings
Motor Blockage Protection Enable: 1:Enable
Stall Protection Time (s): 2.0

   Throttle Parameter Settings
Throttle Voltage Range Protection Enable: 1:Enable
Throttle Mode Selection: 1:Linear
Throttle Maximum Allowed Voltage (V): 4.0
Throttle Upper Voltage Fault Exit Value (V): 3.5
Throttle Lowest Allowed Voltage (V): 0.4
Throttle Lower Voltage Fault Exit Value (V): 0.7
Throttle Maximum Valid Voltage (V): 3.2
Throttle Minimum Valid Voltage (V): 1.2

   Accel and Decel Parameter Settings
Acceleration (rpm/s): 200
Deceleration (rpm/s): 600

   Warranty Date
Warranty Date: 2003

   Software Version
Software Version: 330

Regenerative Braking
EBS Enable: 1:Enable
Reverse Charging Voltage (V): 86.0
Reverse Charging Current (A): 80.0
Enable EBS Auto-Mode: 0:Disable
EBS Auto_Mode Speed (rpm): 180

   Cruise Control Settings
Cruise Control Enable: 0:Enable
Cruise Control Manual Mode Enable: 0:Enable
Cruise Control Automatic Mode Enable: 0:Enable
Cruise Mode Throttle Minimum Voltage (V): 1.2
Cruise Mode Throttle Minimum Voltage (V): 30 ??
Automatic Cruise Response Time (s): 8.0

   Fwd-Speed-Loop Setting
Forward Speed Ratio (%): 85

   Bwd-Speed-Loop Setting
Backword Speed Ratio (%): 100
Reverse Torque Ratio (%): 100

   3-Gears Func Setting
(Disabled)

   Boost Func Setting
(Disabled)

   Speed Throttle Type
: 0:Hall Effect

[Bikemad]

Hi andto the forum.

I'm guessing that the "6 6s 6000 mAh Lipo Batteries" are connected in a 18S2P configuration to produce a 66.6V 10Ah pack with a fully charged voltage of 75.6V, in which case this should be sufficient voltage for the controller.
The voltage of a 36S1P LiPo pack (133.2V nominal and 151.2V fully charged) would be much too high for the 72V controller. 

I recommend setting the Forward Speed Ratio (%): setting to 100%, unless you intentionally want to restrict the top speed.
I would also Enable the Motor Overtemperature Protection Enable: function to prevent the motor from overheating.
You might want to disable the Cruise Control Automatic Mode Enable: function as this is probably not wanted on a go kart.

You should be able to check if your throttle is working correctly by measuring the voltage between the throttle signal wire (typically White) and the throttle ground wire (Black).
The voltage should vary linearly between ~0.8V with the throttle released to ~3.5V at full throttle.

I'm not sure the battery needs to be connected for programming the VEC300 controllers, but if the battery is connected, you may have to switch the battery power Off, remove the USB programming lead, and then power On again to ensure the controller does not remain stuck in programming mode (which I seem to recall is indicated by the 16 regular blinks).

If the programming is successful you should see the recently altered parameters when you reconnect your PC to the controller.

The motor should run with just the motor, battery, throttle and eLock switch connected to the controller, as the Brake, Reverse and Cruise switches are not required to make the motor run.
However, if a brake switch is already fitted, the motor will not run with the brake switch contacts closed (when the brakes are applied).

If the controller light is still blinking (with the programming lead disconnected from the controller) you will need to count the number of blinks to determine what fault code is being indicated in order to determine the cause.

Alan
 

[Reichen.Schaller]

Thank you soo much! I will go change the settings and test the throttle. The pack is indeed connected in a 18S2P fashion.

[Reichen.Schaller]

I have changed the settings on the kart and that hasn't fixed anything. I went on to test the throttle (while the kart was on) and my multimeter showed nothing when I touched the ground and signal wire. I tried moving the throttle and still, nothing happened. I replaced my current throttle with another throttle that has worked on 72v go-karts in the past and again I received nothing. Is there a way of telling if the controller's throttle cable has an issue? Also, when I turn my go-kart on, should I expect to see the led light flash green or something. So far, the controller has been acting like it isn't even on for all of this. I have tested the contacts on the controller multiple times and they read the appropriate voltage, but it is acting like it isn't on at all.

[Bikemad]

Unfortunately, it sounds like you may have a problem inside the controller which is not allowing the controller to power up correctly.

If the controller is receiving the correct battery voltage but is not powering up when the eLock switch is operated (typically indicated by a single blink of the LED) it is probably not supplying the +5V supply to the Throttle and Motor Hall sensors, hence the lack of voltage measured between the Throttle Ground and Signal wires.

Check out this post for further details of a possible resistor failure that can prevent the controller from working.

If your controller is still under warranty, I suggest that you contact the supplier to see if they will require the controller to be returned for repair or replacement, or whether they will allow you to open the controller to check and replace the resistor.

Sorry for the late reply, but I have just returned from a 1000 mile round trip to attend my son's wedding and I have been unable to access my PC for the past few days.

Alan
 

[Reichen.Schaller]

I thought it might have been a throttle problem and purchased golden motor's own throttle. Upon receiving it, I plugged in one of the two cables it came with into the throttle wire and again received no response. The only thing I have left before going down the faulty controller rabbit hole is the fact that when the controller is plugged in I get an LED response. When it is plugged into my computer, disregarding whether or not anything is plugged into it, I get a pattern of three red blinks, a pause, and then three more blinks. Again and again. This is the only time it seems to respond to any stimulus that I can see. Also, how do I check my warranty?

[Reichen.Schaller]

Also, you said that a single light blink signals the e lock is working. When would this light blink occur? When I turn on the motor or attach the e lock the LED does nothing.

[Bikemad]

I thought it might have been a throttle problem and purchased golden motor's own throttle. Upon receiving it, I plugged in one of the two cables it came with into the throttle wire and again received no response. The only thing I have left before going down the faulty controller rabbit hole is the fact that when the controller is plugged in I get an LED response. When it is plugged into my computer, disregarding whether or not anything is plugged into it, I get a pattern of three red blinks, a pause, and then three more blinks. Again and again. This is the only time it seems to respond to any stimulus that I can see. Also, how do I check my warranty?

If the controller is producing the three blink error code (Motor phase is short-circuit or phase to ground is short-circuit) with the motor disconnected, it would seem to indicate that there is a problem within the controller itself.

Try using a multimeter to check the resistance between the B- connector and each of the U, V & W phase wire terminals on the controller in turn with everything disconnected. If there is continuity between any of the Phase wire terminals and B- terminal it might explain the 3 blink fault code.

I would expect the controller to be covered by a 12 month warranty, starting from the date of purchase.
As long as your controller was purchased new less than 12 months ago it should still be covered under the warranty, so contact your supplier to find out what needs to be done to get the controller repaired/replaced. 

Also, you said that a single light blink signals the e lock is working. When would this light blink occur? When I turn on the motor or attach the e lock the LED does nothing.

The LED should blink once when the eLock switch is turned on (contacts closed) as shown in this video.

Alan
 

[Reichen.Schaller]

So, after tearing my hair out trying to find an issue, I tested the red wire for the e-lock and found out it didn't have continuity. It was as if it was broken inside the cable somehow. I replaced it and the kart worked immediately. I was able to do two test rides and a few problems arose, all having to do with the controller settings. I would appreciate any help with the settings, I understand you are under no obligation but anything would be appreciated.

Problems:

1. The max motor amps are set at 110 and when I try to change it and program the settings to the motor it tells me I'm not putting in a valid entry. (I backspace the 110 and replace it with 200.) By the way, my batteries can indeed handle 200 so that is not the problem.
2. I have to press my throttle down halfway before the wheels start to spin.
3. When I try to fully push down my throttle the power cuts. I have to let the throttle completely go back up before I can press it again and get power.
4. The acceleration seems to be cutting the power, it feels weaker than a 2kw motor.

P.S. I appreciate the help you have given me on my project so much. If it wasn't for you this project would have taken a lot longer.

[Reichen.Schaller]

Also, I am running the motor and the ESC on a full water cooling circuit, so it is going to be kept cold, even if I push it hard.

[Bikemad]

1. The max motor amps are set at 110 and when I try to change it and program the settings to the motor it tells me I'm not putting in a valid entry. (I backspace the 110 and replace it with 200.) By the way, my batteries can indeed handle 200 so that is not the problem.

The VEC300-72 controller battery current is only rated for 100 Amps, So 110A might be the largest value the controller will accept:



If it will accept 111A, you could try increasing it 1A at a time to see what the maximum acceptable value will be.

The advertised Max Current:300A relates to the maximum Phase Current - not the Maximum Battery Current.
This high Phase current is achieved by drawing a "pulsed" high current directly from the controller's capacitors.

2. I have to press my throttle down halfway before the wheels start to spin.

The throttle operation can be adjusted by altering the Throttle parameters to suit the working voltage range of the particular throttle being used:

Throttle Maximum Allowed Voltage (V): 4.0
Throttle Upper Voltage Fault Exit Value (V): 3.5
Throttle Lowest Allowed Voltage (V): 0.4
Throttle Lower Voltage Fault Exit Value (V): 0.7
Throttle Maximum Valid Voltage (V): 3.2
Throttle Maximum Allowed Voltage (V): 1.2

Reducing the Throttle Maximum Allowed Voltage (V): should allow the motor to start turning sooner.

You really need to measure the maximum and minimum throttle signal output voltages and alter the settings accordingly.

3. When I try to fully push down my throttle the power cuts. I have to let the throttle completely go back up before I can press it again and get power.

This is probably because the throttle signal voltage is exceeding the Throttle Maximum Allowed Voltage (V):

Increasing the Throttle Maximum Allowed Voltage (V): should prevent the controller from cutting out when the throttle is fully depressed.

4. The acceleration seems to be cutting the power, it feels weaker than a 2kw motor.

The Acceleration (rpm/s): setting should be set as high as possible for maximum acceleration. (I think the acceptable values are between 50 and 1200.)

I don't know whether the Boost Current (A) is for Battery current or Phase current, but it might be worth setting the Boost current as high as possible and enabling the Boost function.
Also try setting the Boost mode to 1:Auto Mode to see if it makes any difference.

The only other parameter that appears to be incorrect is the Number of pole pairs which I would expect to be 4 not 5 (Unless they have started using 10 magnets instead of 8 on the 5kW motors)

Alan
 

[Reichen.Schaller]

Thank you so much for the advice! I will try out the settings as your mentioned. For the pole pairs, that number set itself automatically so I am going to trust golden motor on that. It has gone well for the first few test rides so they might have started using ten magnets.

[Reichen.Schaller]

I have been able to get everything running and it's great (kinda slow), but, a problem has arisen. I only run this thing for 15 minutes at a time and during so none of the components get warm, if they even increase in temperature at all. I have tried to increase the amperage so I can get a faster cart but the software keeps giving me errors. I currently have the motor and ESC on a complete water-cooling circuit so I know that I can run them hard. I would appreciate any help that anyone can provide. If they have a way to import settings that can go past the software limits that would be ideal. Here are my current settings:

   Motor Parameters
Hall Electrical Angle: 120
Phase Angle Offset: -120
Number of Pole Pairs: 5
Rated Motor Speed (rpm): 6000

   Voltage Parameter Settings
Nominal Battery Voltage (V):72
High Voltage Protection Value (V): 90.0
High Voltage Exit Value (V): 86.0
Minimum Work Voltage (V): 50.0
Low Voltage Protection Value (V): 63.0
Low Voltage Protection Exit Value (V): 2.0
Low Voltage Protection Enable: 1:Enable
Low Voltage Triggering Current Reducing (V): 66.0
Clear Undervoltage State While Throttle Off: 0:Disable

   Current Parameter Settings
Starting Phase Current (A): 15.0
Maximum Phase Current (A) 280.0
Maximum Phase Current Duration (s) 0.0
Rated Phase Current (A): 280.0
Battery Drawn Current Limit (A): 110.0

   Temperature Settings
Motor Overtemperature Protection Enable: 1:Enable
Motor Current Limit Temperature (Level 1): 120
Motor Current Limit Temperature (Level 2): 130
Maximum Motor Protection Temperature: 150
Motor Temperature Protection Exit Value: 20

   Motor Blockage Settings
Motor Blockage Protection Enable: 1:Enable
Stall Protection Time (s): 2.0

   Throttle Parameter Settings
Throttle Voltage Range Protection Enable: 1:Enable
Throttle Mode Selection: 1:Linear
Throttle Maximum Allowed Voltage (V): 4.8
Throttle Upper Voltage Fault Exit Value (V): 4.2
Throttle Lowest Allowed Voltage (V): 0.4
Throttle Lower Voltage Fault Exit Value (V): 0.7
Throttle Maximum Valid Voltage (V): 3.2
Throttle Minimum Valid Voltage (V): 0.5

   Accel and Decel Parameter Settings
Acceleration (rpm/s): 800
Deceleration (rpm/s): 800

   Warranty Date
Warranty Date: 2003

   Software Version
Software Version: 330

Regenerative Braking
EBS Enable: 1:Enable
Reverse Charging Voltage (V): 86.0
Reverse Charging Current (A): 80.0
Enable EBS Auto-Mode: 0:Disable
EBS Auto_Mode Speed (rpm): 180

   Cruise Control Settings
Cruise Control Enable: 0:Disable
Cruise Control Manual Mode Enable: 0:Disable
Cruise Control Automatic Mode Enable: 0:Disable
Cruise Mode Throttle Minimum Voltage (V): 1.2
Cruise Mode Throttle Minimum Voltage (V): 30
Automatic Cruise Response Time (s): 8.0

   Fwd-Speed-Loop Setting
Forward Speed Ratio (%): 100

   Bwd-Speed-Loop Setting
Backward Speed Ratio (%): 100
Reverse Torque Ratio (%): 100

   3-Gears Func Setting
(Disabled)

   Boost Func Setting
(Disabled)

   Speed Throttle Type
: 0:Hall Effect

P.S. My questions are no longer under the topic of an "unknown issue with VEC300." Should I start a new discussion?

[Bikemad]

Are you able to measure the battery current to see how many Amps are being drawn?

As your battery nominal voltage is actually 66.6V, try setting the Nominal battery voltage (V) to 60 instead of 72 and then see if it will allow you to increase the Battery drawn current limit (A) a bit more.

Will the Acceleration (rpm/s) setting accept a value of 1200?

Set the Rated Motor Speed (rpm) to 4000 and adjust the gearing of the kart so that maximum speed is achieved at 3,000~3,500 rpm, as the power/torque available from the motor will decrease as the revs increase.
According to the dynamometer test data, above 3,500 rpm, it will draw less than 110 Amps from the battery.
They obviously haven't used a VEC300 controller for the dynamometer tests, as the current exceeds 157 Amps at the maximum tested load @ 2,871 rpm.

Is it the acceleration or top speed that is "kinda slow"?

What is your current gear ratio and tyre diameter?

All the pictures I have seen of the 5kW motor show 8 magnets (4 pole pairs):



I would try setting the Number of Pole Pairs to 4 instead of 5 and see if it makes any difference.

Alan
 
P.S. I have changed the subject title of this topic to avoid any confusion.