Edge wiring for PAS usage and android app settings

[Yka]

Hello,

Got no wiring info for Edge on delivery, but found some MP5 wireing that seems to match. I have motor, BT dongle, break switch and PAS sensor installed. In final build I do not have throttle, but had to build button throttle to debug. Current status is that throttle button works, breaks work, but PAS does nothing.

Android app has some open/close options for PAS & Throttle should those be set some how to PAS only ( have not found any effect by changeing )? Do I need some throttle & other signal in addition to PAS signal to make PAS working? Found in other thread that PAS should be on off pulse and will check the signal next, but expecting it to be ok.

Android app pairing is hard ( no throttle and no movement seems to be must at motor side, but even thenI need to pair twice and kill app and again pair twice to make connection ). Any tips how to pair easyer and how to set  BT PW?

Thanks
Aki

[Bikemad]

Hi Aki andto the forum.

The wiring on the Magic Pie Edge should be the same as the Magic Pie 5:



I don't know whether the throttle is required for the PAS to work, but I seem to recall that the BAC-601 LCD smart display unit would continually display a throttle error if no throttle was plugged in.

I'm wondering whether it may need a throttle signal voltage of between 0.8 and 1.2V before the controller will allow the motor to run, because when the system is powered up with the throttle partially applied (throttle voltage is above 1.25V) there is a failsafe function that prevents the motor from running.
However, as your "button throttle" appears to be working, this may not be the cause.

I suggest that you slip the chain off the chainwheel and raise the wheel off the ground and see if there is any motor response when you spin the pedals in both directions, as you may find that the motor will operate when the pedals are spun backwards if the magnet ring has been fitted with the arrow pointing in the wrong direction. 

Increasing the PAS Ratio value can sometimes help if the pedals are not turning fast enough to activate the PAS at slower speeds.

Are you using the latest version 1.9 of the Android App?



I haven't tried changing the default password as it could be a major problem trying to regain access if you forget or incorrectly enter a new password. 
Anyway, it is very unlikely that someone will have the GM App installed on their phone to enable them to access your controller while you are riding the bike, and it cannot be accessed when the bike is powered off.

Alan
 

[Yka]

Thanks Alan.

PAS:
Did build 1V throttle button to get rid of  "Throttle protection" text in app. Build also higer voltage button to test that motor works. "Throttle protection" text in the app makes me quess that I need to have dump throttle while useing PAS I would appriciate if some one could verify throttle and possible other signals and settings in the app that might be needed to make PAS to work. Moving pedals either way does not cause any reaction on motor ( even with 1V throttle signal ).

Android AP BT:
Did not find version number in the app, but installing 1.9 did not change the behavior.
My motor bt name seems to be "LingBo" when I connect to it in app motor bt adapter led goes from blinkin red to solid red, but on firstime app shows bt icon red and has no motor info etc. When I kill GoldenMotor app bt adapter led starts blinking and usually second round works, but first round newer works. Additionaly  some times app bt icon goes blue, but screen information like speed does not change, even some initial values are shown. And to connect again succefully I need to power down the motor and start again.

[Yka]

Got PAS working. There was no need for dummy throttle afterall.

In android app settings I have ( no idea why options are open / close when enable/disbale would make more sense )
 Throttle enable: Close
 PAS enable: Open

And those settings where shometing I did try first, but it was not working then. I presume Andoid app is doing what ever when ever ( might wirite something to contoller in some time and some value changes do work more often than other and some need controller reboot ).

For new buyers be noted that I did not get correct wiring diagrams at all via sales even after pushing it via pay pal. Got diagram after two weeks wait for wrong motor. Motor it self seems very usable, but support is nightmare ( and would not have made it without experience on other motors ). And do not relay on andoid app ( it's mostly useless ).

[JJ]

So, if I understand correctly, you can use PAS without a throttle???

Please let us know exactly what wiring changes you had to make (if any) and settings in both the Windows and Bluetooth apps.

[Yka]

Yes. PAS works without throttle.

My likely android app setting in my previous message ( my bike BT did die later and my android app issues might have been due bad BT in bike, but I try to not but my hand to that sh!t again - thus trying to find out working way to configure the controller ). It's pretty hard to say what settings and when where in use as android app did what ever when ever and half of it's output was just wrong most of the time...

But in basic idea level the PAS works with PAS sensor (signal, 5V, GND), and motor power wires connected ( it's good to have break connected via break to GND and likely BT / serial for config ).  Other wires are not connected (by my memory) in my setup.

Correct PAS sensor for EDGE seems to be one with pulse signal type going on at magnet and going off at next magnet. There is also PAS pulse sensor  which go on at magnet and off without magnet, but those do not seem to work with this one (uneven pulse time on high and low).

Golden Motor PAS algo is quite bad and hangs time to time very badly to full throttle ( connect the break wire .

[Yka]

Did try Windows app for config. Win app it's missing throttle and PAS enable settings. Is there config app for PC with all relevant settings?

Did use old HC-05 BT modulle at bike to connect it to PC, but android app did not find that one. Any ideas how android app would accept HC-05 ( some other ( BT serial ) as it finds quite a lot other random BT devices?

[Thingamajig]

my experiences with the bluetooth dongle and the edge have been temperamental at best, but I think I know why;

From my observations, the 5v circuit that powers the bluetooth dongle isn't strong enough to provide a consistant power feed so it works correctly/reliably. This is made considerably worse if you have a PAS connected (Throttle, PAS, and BT dongle all operate on this circuit) as anything else connected to the 5v output causes voltage sag and makes the BT dongle misbehave.

I found this out because, my first controllers 5v circuit crapped out after a weeks use and, as my throttle wasn't getting the 5v it needed, it only output around 30% throttle/6mph ish when twisted to full - basically, the 5v circuit was dying. At first I thought my bike had entered some sort of "limp home" mode - nope, the throttle just wasn't getting the power it needed to actually operate.

Needless to say the BT Dongle also didn't get the power it needed to operate effectively.

Unfortunately the only solution was a replacement controller.

So, I got a replacement controller and investigated further. I noticed a similar behavior on the new unit; throttle, PAS, bluetooth dongle all connected, my speed dropped slightly (say by about 2mph ish - again because throttle isn't getting the 5v required to work 100%) and bluetooth became less reliable if I had PAS fitted. This is with a brand new, 2020 version controller for the EDGE (Previous was a 2016 model, according to sticker. The new one seemed to have a second 80v capacitor attached to it).


TL;DR, the Bluetooth dongle only works reliably if you disconnect your throttle and/or PAS, do your programming, then remove it. basically, reducing the load on the 5v circuit makes it work correctly. This circuit is just not adequate enough to power that + PAS + Throttle for the bike to function properly which is quite a disappointment considering the cost these motors are.


Really, GM aught to fix this major issue as it also robs us of usable power via the throttle.