Sun Traditional Trike - Recommendations for Steep Hill Climbs?

[Zaphod2019]

Hello, everyone

Here's my situation and setup:

I bought a 24" Sun Traditional trike about a year ago, intending to try to get some exercise and rebuild some leg strength.  After having had two heart attacks, I have balance issues which preclude me from riding a two-wheeler (had to sell my nice 21-speed MTB... ) and have been diagnosed with diabetes and peripheral artery disease (among a host of other ailments!), and have had all but three toes amputated.  The amputations make it difficult to walk, and the decreased blood flow makes the strength in my legs laughable at times.  After several months I've come to the conclusion that I'm probably not going to be able to build up any serious riding stamina, and have begun to look into electrifying this three-wheel beast.

I've looked at front hub solutions, and while they would be the most cost-effective way to go, I worry that it would not provide enough torque to pull me up steep(er) hills.  The trike weighs about 50 lbs., then add my (currently) 230 lbs., and then another, say 50 lbs of 'cargo' (groceries, mostly), and I have a bit of weight to pull.
I live in a downtown area, with mostly flat routes, but there are some railroad viaducts with pretty steep inclines, and two very steep (to me, anyway) hills between me and the grocery stores to which I need to get to.  I need to know with at least a bit of certainty that the motor will be able to handle it, without cutting out, overheating or breaking.  I've tried to determine the grade of the two hills that I know will be impossible for me to peddle up (manually), but the numbers that a couple of online calculators gave me just didn't sound right...

According to Google Earth, the one hill is approximately 1,950 feet (594 m) long, with a bottom elevation of 460 feet, and a top of 493 feet.
The other is 985 feet (300 m) long, with a bottom elevation of 453 feet, and a top of 495 feet.

I'm obviously not that concerned with speed, as I don't see myself going over perhaps 10 or 15 mph on a straightaway, and probably only 3-5 mph in turns, so as not to tip the trike over.  But I am concerned with travel distance, as I'd like to get a range of at least 10 to 15 miles round trip from a single charge.

I really don't want a purely throttle-driven setup, preferring to pedal as much as I am able to most of the time, but having that power on demand for the hills, or getting through intersections quickly, etc.

I've researched mid-drive kits like Luna Cycle's BBS02 and BBSHD packages, as well as the ones that Golden Motor sells, but there's still a lot of concern/confusion over whether I could make such a system work with the old-style American one-piece bottom bracket on this trike (also my limited mechanical skill set), and whether I'd face issues with drivetrain failure (broken chains, etc.)

So, my basic question is, given my above criteria, would any of the Golden front hub motors be powerful enough to pull me up the hills I've described (with a minimum of manual peddling)?

Thank You in advance to any who can give some guidance on the issue

--Zaphod

[JJ]

I am not an expert by any means, but I'll throw my $.02 in here.

My front hub Smart Pie with a Luna '52v' 14s5p battery will get me up hills like those you speak of without pedaling at about 8-10 mph and will carry me (pedaling) over 60 miles (if I keep the speed down to 20 mph, the speed limit for an 'electric assisted pedal bike' here in Minnesota). I think an Edge or Smart Pie would be a good choice for what you described or even the smaller motors might work (I never looked into them because of my Need For Speed - described later).

If you do go with a Golden Motor (GM) Edge, MP or SP package, I would suggest NOT buying a battery from Luna (like I did) or any inexpensive Chinese Lithium Ion battery, as their Battery Management Systems (BMS) aren't proven to handle the regeneration capacity of the GM offerings, and many of the less expensive ones can't even provide the power the motor can demand. Instead buy a genuine GM battery, like those that GM Canada sells.

I would also suggest springing for the USB programming cable & the Smart Display, or, if you use an Android based phone, a Bluetooth dongle. You might also want to buy the PAS and lights from GM Canada when you buy the motor, otherwise you get some bare wire ends that can also cause problems. The whole package may end up being over $1000, but the parts will all work together, which is something you can't say about the cheap $249 batteries & $199 "kits" on Ebay or Amazon. Just stress to Gary at GM Canada that you want a complete kit. Oh, and be sure to get Torque Arms for that front hub motor.

Lastly, when choosing a battery, remember that higher voltage corresponds to higher (potential) speed, while more amp hours can mean longer distance. I wanted high speed (I need to pass over a narrow 2 lane bridge with a speed limit of 40 mph near the end of most of my rides, so I wanted enough juice left in the battery to get me up to somewhere close to the speed of traffic at the end of a 50-60 mile ride -- my Smart Pie will do about 28 mph over that bridge with me pedaling as hard as I can in my highest gear), so I opted for 52 V, but other than that particular quarter mile, a 36V system would suit me just fine, and for the same amp hours would have weighed less (or, for the same weight, I would have even more distance).

PS. I just checked out lunacycle.com and they don't even offer the kind of battery I bought from them, or any Golden Motor products, either. Maybe their new batteries will work with GM kits better than those they were selling 2 years ago, when I bought my SP and battery from them. I don't know and wouldn't want you to limit your choices based on my experience with a product that is now unavailable from my supplier. However, they bill themselves as Lunacycle Fast E-Bikes, and if you intend to go fast, be sure to check them out, if not, well... BTW, on their forums they pretty much advise to go the GM Canada for support for all their previous GM offerings.

[Zaphod2019]

Thank You so much, JJ, for the thoughtful and detailed reply!

Let me take it point by point:

I am not an expert by any means, but I'll throw my $.02 in here.

Believe me, when we're talking about $1000+ Every Penny Counts! 

My front hub Smart Pie with a Luna '52v' 14s5p battery will get me up hills like those you speak of without pedaling at about 8-10 mph and will carry me (pedaling) over 60 miles (if I keep the speed down to 20 mph, the speed limit for an 'electric assisted pedal bike' here in Minnesota). I think an Edge or Smart Pie would be a good choice for what you described or even the smaller motors might work (I never looked into them because of my Need For Speed - described later).

First, I was told by Luna that I should not pair a 52v battery with the Golden Pie V5, as "The Golden Pie v5 is capable of 52v but yes, you do risk the chance of blowing the fetts if you put the motor under too much strain." - And I would think that the hills that I have to get up would constitute a 'strain' on the motor. I have to admit, though, that I have zero experience with any type of electrified motor on a cycle, so perhaps I'm being overly cautious...?
An uphill speed of 8-10 mph would be -quite- satisfactory for me.  I'm imagining probably 4-6 mph with a load of groceries on the back, but that would still be fine.
"if I keep the speed down to 20 mph" he says!  Were I on a two-wheel bike, I'd love that kind of speed, but on this trike the slightest wobble at those speeds would see me in the hospital (or worse).  I am very interested in that much (potential) power, though, for the two reasons I outlined above, hills and getting through intersections quickly.

If you do go with a Golden Motor (GM) Edge, MP or SP package, I would suggest NOT buying a battery from Luna (like I did) or any inexpensive Chinese Lithium Ion battery, as their Battery Management Systems (BMS) aren't proven to handle the regeneration capacity of the GM offerings, and many of the less expensive ones can't even provide the power the motor can demand. Instead buy a genuine GM battery, like those that GM Canada sells.

Well, GM's highest capacity battery is only a 48V10AH - I was really hoping to get something like Luna's 52V13.5AH Wolf pack with the Panasonic GA cells.  The GM 48V isn't going to get me as much top-speed, and the 10AH isn't as much range (and no offense to GM, but theirs is $396 while the higher-capacity Luna is on sale right now for less than $100 more ($490)). Plus, from what I can see, GM's is a rack-mount, and I'd really rather have a downtube-mount, if possible.

I would also suggest springing for the USB programming cable & the Smart Display, or, if you use an Android based phone, a Bluetooth dongle. You might also want to buy the PAS and lights from GM Canada when you buy the motor, otherwise you get some bare wire ends that can also cause problems. The whole package may end up being over $1000, but the parts will all work together, which is something you can't say about the cheap $249 batteries & $199 "kits" on Ebay or Amazon. Just stress to Gary at GM Canada that you want a complete kit. Oh, and be sure to get Torque Arms for that front hub motor.

It doesn't look like the Smart Display is available for the Golden Pie 5, only the MP4/SP4...  I'd really like a more colorful display, anyway (ideally, something like Luna's upgraded Bafang display, the DPC-18 (which, unfortunately, I've heard has problems, despite its good looks)) - I really don't like the idea of having to mount my $1000 phone on the handlebars of the trike, but the Android app looks quite nice, though
PAS is almost a must, because I really don't want a 'mobility scooter,' but something that I can peddle (as musch as I'm able to, anyway).
As for lights, I don't see myself riding much after dark, because of the area I live in, but lights can always be added later, if needed.
No, I almost immediately decided against the super-cheap kits I saw on eBay and Amazon, remembering the two old adages, "You get what you pay for" and "If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is!"
I didn't see the torque arms on GM's (US) website Never mind, I switched over to the Canadian site and everything is available - It also might make some of my above comments nonsensical...
I've read some comments from others that suggest having two torque arms is a good idea, but I'm not sure.

PS. I just checked out lunacycle.com and they don't even offer the kind of battery I bought from them, or any Golden Motor products, either. Maybe their new batteries will work with GM kits better than those they were selling 2 years ago, when I bought my SP and battery from them. I don't know and wouldn't want you to limit your choices based on my experience with a product that is now unavailable from my supplier. However, they bill themselves as Lunacycle Fast E-Bikes, and if you intend to go fast, be sure to check them out, if not, well... BTW, on their forums they pretty much advise to go the GM Canada for support for all their previous GM offerings.

Luna still offers the GP5 kit: https://lunacycle.com/golden-pie-v5-golden-motor-hub-kit/, although with not nearly the amount of choices of accessories that GM offers.

I still have much contemplating to do, but your tips and suggestions have helped a lot! - Thank You again

--Zaphod

[Tommycat]

Hi Zaphod,

I ride with a rear Magic Pie 5, on a Huffy 2 wheel, with 52 volt11.5 AH.   My first and only Ebike. (at this time... 

As stated in the Luna link you reference, and what I've been led to believe, and read, and use, the MP5 is compatible with a 52 volt battery.
That said I have de-rated the motor to 750 watts and a maximum speed of 20 MPH to adhere to the laws of the state.
Out of the box with a 24 inch wheel I think it would easily do what you ask torque wise. As stated earlier the amp hours of the battery will determine distance.
A smart display is indeed available for the MP5. (BAC-601) But just a heads up... the one for the MP4 IS NOT compatible with the MP5 so get the right one.
I also wanted a straight forward kit. I'm pleased with the harness and connectors. I do not use PAS. As far as reliability it seems the controllers biggest issue is being killed with regeneration. Due to either a accidental battery disconnect during. Or excessive voltage feed back with to much speed during. I like the regeneration and use it turned down as to not be to aggressive and an aid in stopping. Don't get it just for the reclaiming of battery energy as it's regeneration is a minor percentage.
 
Two torque arms on a front fork are a MUST! Especially if you use regeneration!

But just wanted to mention also that I've seen a Dual Geared Hub motor. That with your desire for more torque and lesser speed might be a good fit.

https://lunacycle.com/double-gear-double-torque-motor/   and

https://electricbike.com/forum/forum/knowledge-base/motors-and-kits/new-channel/26466-double-torque-double-gear-hubmotor


Haven't viewed the videos, but I see there is one with a trike. I've heard that geared motors may be a bit noisier, require a bit of maintenance and correct use, or not as bullet proof as a Pie. But as always, opinions vary from one side to the other.    You can't use regeneration on a geared hub if that is important to you.

Keeping the battery as far forward to give some downforce on your drive wheel I think is a good idea.

Check the link in my signature to see my build.

Best of luck with yours!


T.C.

[GM Canada]

First, I was told by Luna that I should not pair a 52v battery with the Golden Pie V5, as "The Golden Pie v5 is capable of 52v but yes, you do risk the chance of blowing the fetts if you put the motor under too much strain.

The fetts should be fine. Even though a Lithium ion battery charges to 58.8 and liFePO4 to 58.4, the LifePO4 batteries have a nominal voltage of 52.8v and the 52v Lithium Ions are 51.8 nominal. The voltage will be in the nominal range the majority of the time.
 

The GM 48V isn't going to get me as much top-speed, and the 10AH isn't as much range

Since the nominal voltage of the liFePO4 pack is higher then the 52v Lithium Ion so the GM pack should go faster. Also keep in mind since liFePO4 like to be fully charged the cells balance perfectly every time giving you a great range per AH. People with lithium Ion cells tend to only charge to 85% and that doesn't balance the cells well. So even a slightly unbalanced pack goes lest distance.

It is a tough decision I know.

Either way we sell both types and I do understand both sides of the fence.

Just thought I would throw in my 2 cents as well

Gary

BTW I already answered this once and after re reading I deleted it as I sounded horribly tired and grouchy. Sorry for anyone that witnessed that   

[Zaphod2019]

Thanks for your input and observations, Tommycat

I ride with a rear Magic Pie 5, on a Huffy 2 wheel, with 52 volt11.5 AH.   My first and only Ebike. (at this time... 

Sounds nice

As stated in the Luna link you reference, and what I've been led to believe, and read, and use, the MP5 is compatible with a 52 volt battery.

I'm beginning to see that...

That said I have de-rated the motor to 750 watts and a maximum speed of 20 MPH to adhere to the laws of the state.

I've read that before.  I don't foresee my state's laws being a problem with me, as I don't plan to (couldn't really, anyway!) ride daredevil-style on this trike. I don't know how much bike path riding I'll be doing, but even then I'm sure I'd keep it well below any speed limits there are
My main concern is just having that power and torque available for short spurts or hill climbing when I really need it.

Out of the box with a 24 inch wheel I think it would easily do what you ask torque wise. As stated earlier the amp hours of the battery will determine distance.

Well, I'm certainly leaning towards this solution, as it's much simpler than a mid-drive kit.

A smart display is indeed available for the MP5. (BAC-601) But just a heads up... the one for the MP4 IS NOT compatible with the MP5 so get the right one.

After looking at the displays available from GM, though, I believe I'd rather go with the bluetooth dongle and my smartphone.  I've checked out several bike mounts on Amazon and have found an inexpensive one that sounds like it will be sturdy and provide enough protection for my expensive phone.  I also greatly like the fact that I will be taking it off when I park the bike and go in somewhere - I live in a less than perfect downtown area, and fear for the safety of any display fixed to the bike.

I also wanted a straight forward kit. I'm pleased with the harness and connectors. I do not use PAS. As far as reliability it seems the controllers biggest issue is being killed with regeneration. Due to either a accidental battery disconnect during. Or excessive voltage feed back with to much speed during. I like the regeneration and use it turned down as to not be to aggressive and an aid in stopping. Don't get it just for the reclaiming of battery energy as it's regeneration is a minor percentage.

I'm still a little fuzzy as to the usage of regen braking.  I imagine I'll go whatever the safest route is, to prolong the life of the motor.

Two torque arms on a front fork are a MUST! Especially if you use regeneration!

Heh heh - I've already budgeted in two torque arms

But just wanted to mention also that I've seen a Dual Geared Hub motor. That with your desire for more torque and lesser speed might be a good fit.

https://lunacycle.com/double-gear-double-torque-motor/   and

https://electricbike.com/forum/forum/knowledge-base/motors-and-kits/new-channel/26466-double-torque-double-gear-hubmotor

I looked at this solution, and even back-and-forthed with Luna about it for a while.  The problem was, first, they had no 24" rims to lace it into, suggesting that I find a local bike shop to do the job, then, suddenly, they ran out of stock on the motor and at last check had no idea if they would ever get more in or not...

Haven't viewed the videos, but I see there is one with a trike. I've heard that geared motors may be a bit noisier, require a bit of maintenance and correct use, or not as bullet proof as a Pie. But as always, opinions vary from one side to the other.    You can't use regeneration on a geared hub if that is important to you.

Yes, Eric made a couple of videos showing the pulling power on a trike - These were what really spurred me to think of embarking on this adventure.

Keeping the battery as far forward to give some downforce on your drive wheel I think is a good idea.

Yeah, I've even considered mounting the battery on one of the front forks, giving additional weight to the front end, hoping for more traction going uphill.  Still don't know if that will be necessary or not.
As I've said before, I have NO practical experience with e-bikes, and all my worrying and planning may turn out to have been in vain, as the motor might be more powerful and torque-y than what I think, and the hill(s) not as much of a challenge as they seem to me, now.
I just don't want to sink a large chunk of money into this, only to find that it will not do what I need it to do...

Again, Thank You for your reply

--Zaphod

[Zaphod2019]

Thank You so much for weighing in, Gary! - I was hoping to talk to you

First, I was told by Luna that I should not pair a 52v battery with the Golden Pie V5, as "The Golden Pie v5 is capable of 52v but yes, you do risk the chance of blowing the fetts if you put the motor under too much strain.

The fetts should be fine. Even though a Lithium ion battery charges to 58.8 and liFePO4 to 58.4, the LifePO4 batteries have a nominal voltage of 52.8v and the 52v Lithium Ions are 51.8 nominal. The voltage will be in the nominal range the majority of the time.

Well, the problem with the LiFePO4 batteries (other than being a bit more expensive, initially) is the case size and shape - With the Shark/Wolf Packs, they're easily mounted to a downtube (or perhaps front fork), whereas the LiFePO's would need to ride in the back basket, either meaning I'd have to cut out a space for it and install new hardware to hold it in, or go with some sort of battery bag (which I really don't like the looks of). Plus, either of those solutions mean that the battery would take up room in the already-less-than-generous basket.  Also worried about banging the battery case with 12-packs of soft drinks, etc....

The GM 48V isn't going to get me as much top-speed, and the 10AH isn't as much range

Since the nominal voltage of the liFePO4 pack is higher then the 52v Lithium Ion so the GM pack should go faster. Also keep in mind since liFePO4 like to be fully charged the cells balance perfectly every time giving you a great range per AH. People with lithium Ion cells tend to only charge to 85% and that doesn't balance the cells well. So even a slightly unbalanced pack goes lest distance.

It is a tough decision I know.

Yes, the charging routine was a concern to me.  I originally intended to go with Luna's 52V Advanced 300W Ebike Charger, for its ability to charge to 80- 90- or 100% but it's been out of stock for over a month, now
So you're saying that the LiFePO's built-in BMS more or less automatically balances the charge each time?  Hmm... 
So do you really think that the 48V10AH LiFePO4 would be a better choice than the 48V13.6AH Panasonic Shark Pack?
I also just noticed that it's rated at '1000 to 2000' charging cycles - I didn't know that...

I'd still have to figure out some form of mounting the thing, though.  This trike isn't 'normal,' so many solutions that work with a 2-wheeler can't be used with it.

Just thought I would throw in my 2 cents as well

Much appreciated

BTW I already answered this once and after re reading I deleted it as I sounded horribly tired and grouchy. Sorry for anyone that witnessed that 

I read your previously deleted post yesterday, but didn't have time to reply, then.  I appreciated your candor and didn't find it to sound 'grouchy' at all, but just truthful.
Much of what you stated about Luna, I agreed with, BTW

--Zaphod

[Bikemad]

Keeping the battery as far forward to give some downforce on your drive wheel I think is a good idea.

Yeah, I've even considered mounting the battery on one of the front forks, giving additional weight to the front end, hoping for more traction going uphill.  Still don't know if that will be necessary or not.

The battery should (ideally) be placed centrally over the wheel using a front mounted rack, rather than on one of the front forks.
This will provide the best traction for hill climbing, as a front wheel drive Magic Pie can spin very easily on slippery inclines if you don't have sufficient weight acting upon it.

A suitable heavy duty front mounted rack would also allow a larger battery (like the 48V 15Ah pack shown below) to be fitted if a longer range is required:





Please note: The motor, battery and rack shown in the above pictures may not be to the correct scale, as they were digitally added for illustrative purposes only.

Alan
 

[Zaphod2019]

Keeping the battery as far forward to give some downforce on your drive wheel I think is a good idea.

Yeah, I've even considered mounting the battery on one of the front forks, giving additional weight to the front end, hoping for more traction going uphill.  Still don't know if that will be necessary or not.

The battery should (ideally) be placed centrally over the wheel using a front mounted rack, rather than on one of the front forks.
This will provide the best traction for hill climbing, as a front wheel drive Magic Pie can spin very easily on slippery inclines if you don't have sufficient weight acting upon it.

A suitable heavy duty front mounted rack would also allow a larger battery (like the 48V 15Ah pack shown below) to be fitted if a longer range is required:

Please note: The motor, battery and rack shown in the above pictures may not be to the correct scale, as they were digitally added for illustrative purposes only.

Alan

Wow!  Thank You for the suggestion and the keen bit of digital manipulation, Alan!

I'd not considered a front rack solution, but that just might solve both the problem of taking up room in the basket, and additional weight on the front end.

Just had a quick look on Amazon and I don't see any heavy-duty racks that seem suitable - I'll do some more digging, though

Thanks again

--Zaphod

[GM Canada]

Thank You so much for weighing in, Gary! - I was hoping to talk to you

I read your previously deleted post yesterday, but didn't have time to reply, then.  I appreciated your candor and didn't find it to sound 'grouchy' at all, but just truthful.
Much of what you stated about Luna, I agreed with, BTW

--Zaphod

The pleasure is mine   

It started out as a light hearted comment on the misinformation machine out there pumping "fake news" in circles among related entities. Sound familiar Should I even use a phrase like that? lol sorry...

Problem is once I start correcting the misinformation where do I stop? it just ends up sounding like a bashing session which was not my intention. Life is great, there is room for everyone. I understand people trying to make themselves look better. That's business. Honestly we have never been busier and grow every year bigger than the year before. We are way to busy to even pay attention what anyone else is doing. But I do get a lot of phone calls and I liked to respond to them. When I popped over here I saw the comments and got caught up in it.

Anyway, I love the forum. I use to spend hours every night here years ago. Now a few minutes here and there is all I can spare. The expertise and opinions of people here like Alan and Tommy Cat and others really is amazing. I have always said that Alan deserves a round of applause when he enters any room. The stuff he researches and creates to answer any question is mind blowing

Ooops.. I'm babbling now. Did I answer any questions? I don't think so lol... Oh well, back to packing boxes   

Enjoy the Ride!

Gary

[Zaphod2019]

Thank You so much for weighing in, Gary! - I was hoping to talk to you

I read your previously deleted post yesterday, but didn't have time to reply, then.  I appreciated your candor and didn't find it to sound 'grouchy' at all, but just truthful.
Much of what you stated about Luna, I agreed with, BTW

--Zaphod

The pleasure is mine   

It started out as a light hearted comment on the misinformation machine out there pumping "fake news" in circles among related entities. Sound familiar Should I even use a phrase like that? lol sorry...

Heh heh - Well, despite our U.S. political administration erroneously and overly using the phrase, I think it is apt in this situation

Problem is once I start correcting the misinformation where do I stop? it just ends up sounding like a bashing session which was not my intention. Life is great, there is room for everyone. I understand people trying to make themselves look better. That's business. Honestly we have never been busier and grow every year bigger than the year before. We are way to busy to even pay attention what anyone else is doing. But I do get a lot of phone calls and I liked to respond to them. When I popped over here I saw the comments and got caught up in it.

Sometimes it's hard for folks to find good, authoritative information about certain subjects, so when voices --which appear to know what they're talking about-- are heard, we tend to latch onto them...

The expertise and opinions of people here like Alan and Tommy Cat and others really is amazing. I have always said that Alan deserves a round of applause when he enters any room. The stuff he researches and creates to answer any question is mind blowing

Although a newcomer here, I have read several of Bikemad's quite thorough replies and have to agree with you! - Bravo, Alan

--Zaphod

[Zaphod2019]

Well, I think I'm nearly ready to 'take the plunge' and get the Black Pie 5 Vector (either this month or next, depending on battery choice).

Wondering about the 52V 17.5AH Panasonic pack and how (if at all) it would affect the throttle and/or the display (Bluetooth Dongle)?

Here is my current Shopping List - Does anyone see any glaring omissions that I might be forgetting?

Black Pie 5 Kit + 2 Torque Arms
Battery (either 48V 10AH LiFePO4, or 52V 17.5AH Panasonic)
Pedelec
Bluetooth Dongle


I'm thinking seriously of changing out the handlebars on the trike, for some sort of North Road, Soma Oxford, or some similar swept-back style.  I'd like to get an adjustable quill stem so that I could set the bars to the best feel (I've never been happy with the ones that came with it...)

--Zaphod

[GM Canada]

Hi Zaphod,

If you are looking at hill climbing be sure to put the motor on the back as that is where the traction is 

Both batteries will give the same feel and power. The 48v10ah willl have a longer lifespan, the 52v17.5ah longer rides.

The 48v10 ah heavier and mounts on the back rack. The 52v17.5ah lighter and mounts on the downtube.

I's a tough decision for anyone. 

[GM Canada]

Hi Zaphod,

If you are looking at hill climbing be sure to put the motor on the back as that is where the traction is 

Both batteries will give the same feel and power. The 48v10ah willl have a longer lifespan, the 52v17.5ah longer rides.

The 48v10 ah heavier and mounts on the back rack. The 52v17.5ah lighter and mounts on the downtube.

I's a tough decision for anyone. 

Haha, strike that !

Gary

[Zaphod2019]

Hi Zaphod,

If you are looking at hill climbing be sure to put the motor on the back as that is where the traction is 

Both batteries will give the same feel and power. The 48v10ah willl have a longer lifespan, the 52v17.5ah longer rides.

The 48v10 ah heavier and mounts on the back rack. The 52v17.5ah lighter and mounts on the downtube.

I's a tough decision for anyone. 

Haha, strike that !

Gary

Heh heh - I'd love to have it in the back, but... 

I'm still conflicted over the battery choice.  The lure of longer lifespan is very strong, especially with the prices of battery packs, but the thought of longer rides is tempting, also.

In all honesty, I'll probably never travel over 10 miles total (5 out and 5 back), but it would sure be nice to know I could go farther if I wanted to.
Again, I have no experience with eBikes so could very well be pleasantly surprised by the range of the 48V 10AH LiFePO4.

Any words on the 52V packs and the throttle and (Bluetooth) display?  I've read that 52V might cause the throttle to either stop working or 'misbehave,' giving you over-powerful spurts at times, and also that the higher voltage messes up the accuracy of the display (speed, range, battery percentage display).

--Zaphod