Newbie here from Germany expecting trouble

[AllgaeuAndi]

Hello everyone,

new here and in the world of ebikes. I do have the Magic Pie 5 fat wheel conversion in my self made aluminium cruiser and discovering an issue.

During mockup, stupid me, damaged the outside insulation of the main motor cable, which is coming out of the wheel.

After trying the bike for a few times without any problems, I thought lucky me, everything works as it should.
On Sunday things got worse. After a 25km trip, my charging plug from the 48V/30Ah battery pack was coming loose and got stuck between frame and motor cable, right where the insulation was already damaged by me, when welding on the frame.

At home I figured out, that the tiny red and white cable were completely cut ripped. So I soldered it all together and thought being ready for another spin.

But nothing happened at all. The three lights on the twist throttle light up(the green, the yellow, the red), but the motor does not turn.
Is it possible, that the two stripped/ ripped cable where causing a short or something and destroyed the controller?

Sorry for all of the mistakes, no native english speaker...;-)

I hope someone can help me on this topic, since I just started this whole bike hobby thing and not much off an electrician, more mechanic/welder;-)

[Bikemad]

Hi andto the forum.

I am confused as to what the "tiny red and white cable" is connected to, is it part of your battery's charging plug?

Below is the connector details for the Magic Pie 5, which should help you to figure out if the correct voltages are present at the correct pins.

I recommend connecting the negative (-) probe from your voltmeter to the negative battery terminal and then check for the required battery voltage and +5V supplies by touching the positive (+) probe onto the various pins on the connectors:


(Click on picture to see full size)

You must be very careful not to touch adjacent pins with your meter's probe, as this could cause a direct battery short circuit across some adjacent pins.
I use a small piece of wire insulation slid over the end of the positive probe to ensure that it can only make contact with one pin at a time. 





I would suggest disconnecting the main harness from the Motor harness to check if the voltages are correct on pins 3 and 5 on the 10 pin connector before attaching the harness to check voltages on the four small Control harness connectors.

If the +5V and battery voltages are all correct, you may have to remove the controller from the wheel to check the continuity of all of the wires in turn to determine the cause of your problem.

Alan
 

[AllgaeuAndi]

Hi Bikemad,

thank you for your replay. I trie to post a pic of the damaged section, which might help you indicate anything wrong...

What i´ve also done now, is, unbolting the controller from the motor and hooked everything up again, to maybe get any more indications etc.

I discovered the following: Everything plugged in, the way it is supposed to be, switching on the battery, the led of the controller flashes 14 times, stops for lets say a second, flashes 14 times again etc.

I also plugged in the bluetooth device, just for being curious, blue led comes on for less than a second, stays off.

I then disconnected every cable to the motor, so only the controller is wired to the battery, now the controller led´s flash five times in a row...

Hopefully I could explain the issue a tiny bit understandable, as mentioned bevor, no big electrician inside

[AllgaeuAndi]

The pic shows the damaged section of the main cable coming out of the controller.

The thin red and white cable were both completely ripped/separated, when the charging plug of my battery pack was caught between the rear disc and the controller cable....

Since this seemed to be the obvious issue, I thought, soldering those two together again and being back on the road.
Unfortunately now the motor won't spin at all.

All I can hear, when I switch on the battery, is a tiny "click" sound from the controller, that's all there is...

Pretty stupid situation, as I just started to enjoy the new hobby, but being not to familiar with electronic stuff on the inside, its hard
to troubleshoot. And most information on the net is written in english...

[Bikemad]

If your wires are the same as this early sinewave controller, the tiny red wire is for the cruise control signal and the tiny white wire is the +5V supply to the throttle and Pedelec sensor etc.:

 

I discovered the following: Everything plugged in, the way it is supposed to be, switching on the battery, the led of the controller flashes 14 times, stops for lets say a second, flashes 14 times again etc.

The 14 regular flashes indicate that the Throttle (or control harness) is disconnected.
As you had everything plugged in, it looks like the fault is probably somewhere within the tiny green throttle signal wire (assuming the repaired white wire is actually supplying the +5V feed to the throttle).

You will need to check continuity between the soldered connection where the green wire attaches to the controller's circuit board and pin 10 on the controller's ten pin connector.

It may be that the wired has been pulled hard enough to snap the inner metal conductor, but without breaking the outer plastic insulation.

Try gently pulling/flexing the wire to see if it flexes unusually on the exposed section near to where the red and white wires snapped.

I then disconnected every cable to the motor, so only the controller is wired to the battery, now the controller led´s flash five times in a row...

The 5 regular flashes indicate that the Hall sensor input from the motor is abnormal (or the 6 pin connector is unplugged).

Both of the controllers that I have just tested with nothing connected (apart from the battery supply) flash 5 times.
If I then plug in the control harness and the brakes, throttle and cruise/horn switch they still flash 5 times.

If your controller is connected to the motor and the controls, you should just see one single flash when power is applied to indicate that everything is OK.

I hope you can understand enough of my English to locate the fault. 

Alan
 

[AllgaeuAndi]

Thanks again Alan, for your thoughts. So tomorrow, i´ll get my multimeter and see, if I can find another broken cable, or if I have the 5V
you suggested.

My controller is the "new" Magic Pie 5.3.1, but cable wise might be the same...

I´ll post any results and hope to find something easy fixable ;-)

[AllgaeuAndi]

no good news yet, I do have all the required results on the multimeter, the battery voltage, the 5V(4.9V on my multimeter) and the green tiny thin cable also does go through to the twist throttle and all 3 led´s light, as soon as I switch on the battery...

The controller also does the same thing, flashing 14 etc.

Can't find any loose or broken wire so far. Might as well buy a new controller and harness, to be back at stock factory?

[JJ]

14 flashes means a speed control (some people call it a throttle) problem, not a controller problem. It's most likely in your wiring because of the damage, but the hall sensors or the pickup in the speed control might have been damaged due to over-voltage.

[AllgaeuAndi]

ok, so maybe starting with a new speed control thingy and see what happens, as they are a bit cheaper to replace...

Someone else here on the forum was talking about these hall sensors being damaged through a mistake, but just replacing these, will
prolly require an electronics freak:-)?

Thanks JJ for trying to help also, much appreciated

[Bikemad]

You should be able to check if your throttle is working correctly by measuring the voltage on the green throttle signal wire connection on the controller's circuit board.
You can have the black negative probe attached to the battery's - terminal, or simply hold it onto the thick black battery connection's soldered joint on the controller with one hand if you have someone else available to operate the throttle.

You will need to penetrate the protective coating to reach the soldered contacts on the circuit board. If your meter probes do not have nice sharp points, you can simply hold them against a steel needle and use the needle as a probe instead. 

The throttles signal voltage on the green wire should vary from 0.8~1V at rest, to between 3.25~4.5V when the throttle is moved to its maximum position.

If the voltage is correct, then the throttle is working correctly and would not need to be replaced.

Just to be safe, I would disconnect the controller from the wheel while carrying out this test.

The voltage on the blue brake signal wire should be ~3V when the brakes are not applied and 0V when the levers are pulled.
If you have a reading of 0V with the brakes disconnected, there could be a fault on the brake signal circuit that would prevent the motor from running, but it could also be a controller fault. 
Try unplugging the main harness and measuring the Brake signal voltage again on the circuit board, if it is still reading 0V, then the problem is likely to be the controller ora short circuit within the controller's wiring harness.

Replacing the Hall sensor in the throttle unit is a fiddly job with a soldering iron, but dismantling the throttle to gain access to it can be difficult on the twist throttles. Early thumb throttles come apart relatively easily, but I haven't been able to try one of the later thumb throttles, as I don't have one. 

It may be worth checking the Hall sensors in the motor to confirm they are still working correctly, as they could also prevent the motor from running. But as you don't see the five flashes with the hall sensors plugged in, they are probably OK.
You can take a look at this post and this YouTube video for more details on testing the operation of the hall sensors.

Alan
 

[AllgaeuAndi]

Hey guys, its been a while, but other projects took me away from my damaged ebike.

But wanted to give some feedback, which could help others. I ordered a new controller, which was completely unnecessary, as discovered. I installed it and the motor still did not turn at all. The same blink code came on, when I connected it all. So next thing I tried a new twist throttle and voila, the bloody thing did turn again. So finally it seems like all, that was toast, was the tiny little hall sensor in the throttle control.

Hope it'll work now, to enjoy the bike a bit more....

Greets

[Bikemad]

Thanks for the update, it's good to know you've finally located the fault.  But if you had followed my instructions for checking the throttle signal voltage, you should have discovered this over a year ago.   

You should be able to check if your throttle is working correctly by measuring the voltage on the green throttle signal wire connection on the controller's circuit board.
You can have the black negative probe attached to the battery's - terminal, or simply hold it onto the thick black battery connection's soldered joint on the controller with one hand if you have someone else available to operate the throttle.

You will need to penetrate the protective coating to reach the soldered contacts on the circuit board. If your meter probes do not have nice sharp points, you can simply hold them against a steel needle and use the needle as a probe instead. 

The throttles signal voltage on the green wire should vary from 0.8~1V at rest, to between 3.25~4.5V when the throttle is moved to its maximum position.

If the voltage is correct, then the throttle is working correctly and would not need to be replaced.

Just to be safe, I would disconnect the controller from the wheel while carrying out this test.

If you already have the controller removed it is a relatively simple test, and would probably have taken you less time to actually test the throttle than it took me to post the instructions for doing it. 

Never mind, at least it is all sorted now, so you can finally enjoy riding your bike again.



Alan