Author Topic: Shopping for new controller, maybe new motor also  (Read 14795 times)

Offline Mistercrash

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Shopping for new controller, maybe new motor also
« on: August 16, 2015, 03:29:38 PM »
Hi,
I ride a Motorino scooter. It is basically a 2010 Yamaha Vino converted to electric. The stock controller finally gave out this week so I want to upgrade to something a lot more powerful. It was a 48V 40amp 120 degree phase controller that was adequate for the limited speed of 32 km/h required by law. I need a top speed of more than 70 km/h with enough torque to get there fast. This is not for public road use by the way.

I am not familiar with Golden Motors products so I need some advice. The scooter is 225 pounds and I am 255. It runs on a hub motor with a 10 inch tubeless rim with disk brake and I'd like to keep that dimension. I was looking at the VECTOR 200 Series 48 Volt Brushless Motor Controller. Would this controller paired with a 5kw hub motor (not a Golden Motors) take me to 70 km/h and more? With enough torque to keep the speed up hills?

Thanks
Ray
« Last Edit: August 16, 2015, 07:20:45 PM by Mistercrash »

Offline Bikemad

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Re: Shopping for new controller, maybe new motor also
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2015, 12:52:50 PM »
Hi Ray andto the forum.

I don't think that the GM vector controllers will work with properly with non-GM motors as the resistance and sequence of the motor windings are very important to allow the controller to operate correctly.

I was told by GM that their vector controllers are only compatible with their motors and "cannot" be used with other manufacturer's motors.

I suspect that if you want increased torque you may also need to upgrade your batteries to cope with the extra current demand.
As you are aiming to more than double your speed, you will require more than ten times the amount of power to achieve this goal, therefore your existing batteries would also need to work at least ten times harder at 70km/h than they used to at 32km/h. ;)

The power required is proportional to the cube of the velocity. Therefore (if my calculations are correct) to increase your speed from 32 to 70km/h, you would need 10.47 times as much power:

(70/32)3 = ~10.47

For example, if it only used 720W of power to maintain 32km/h on the level it would theoretically need 7538.4W of power to maintain 70km/h.
720W @ 48V only requires 15 Amps, but the voltage sag caused by the increased load on the battery at 70km/h could easily result in the battery having to supply over 180 Amps in order to produce the required power. :o

I suggest that you spend some time giving this matter some serious thought and do your own research before you start buying expensive replacement components, or you may be disappointed if you quickly purchase items that are not capable of fulfilling your requirements.

Alan
 
« Last Edit: July 04, 2017, 09:10:36 PM by Bikemad »

Offline Mistercrash

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Re: Shopping for new controller, maybe new motor also
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2015, 04:03:04 PM »
Thanks for the advice. For now, what I need is a new controller. I was hoping I could get a much better one that would help transform this e-bike into a real scooter in the future. This by upgrading the motor and also the battery. My plans for the battery was to make a series of 1S36P cells out of 18650 cells from a Tesla Model S. 51.8V nominal and 108Ah capable of 3C constant discharge.

I am disapointed to learn that GM controllers are only compatible with GM motors. Also a bit surprised about it. I really thought that GM controllers would be compatible with any permanent magnet BLDC 120 degree motors.

Thanks again
Ray
« Last Edit: August 17, 2015, 11:28:58 PM by Mistercrash »

Offline Bikemad

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Re: Shopping for new controller, maybe new motor also
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2015, 12:26:21 AM »
My plans for the battery was to make a series of 1S36P cells out of 18650 cells from a Tesla Model S. 51.8V nominal and 108Ah capable of 3C discharge all day.

If you are going to make your own 14S36P pack, the construction of this 35S30P pack might be of interest.

Alan
 

Offline Lollandster

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Re: Shopping for new controller, maybe new motor also
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2015, 02:24:43 AM »
...
I am disapointed to learn that GM controllers are only compatible with GM motors. Also a bit surprised about it. I really thought that GM controllers would be compatible with any permanent magnet BLDC 120 degree motors.
I'm a little surprised too. When launching the configuration software for the controller (without the controller connected) it has options for Hall effect angle , phase angle offset, number of poles and rated motor speed. It is missing auto hall identification features so finding the correct sequence is probably a hassle. But since GM says it won't work I wouldn't throw money on it hoping they are wrong. It is cheap, but not that cheap.
Disclaimer: I know nothing.
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Offline Mistercrash

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Re: Shopping for new controller, maybe new motor also
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2015, 03:33:26 PM »
If you are going to make your own 14S36P pack, the construction of this 35S30P pack might be of interest.

Alan

I applaud all he did in his battery build, started with good cells, put extra protection on the button side, used a good spot welder to weld instead of solder. He made 1S30P modules that will be joined in series, very modular and exactly what I wish to do. I just don't like the hot glue to hold the cells together. From personal experience, it doesn't work and it's actually the welds that end up holding the cells together. I prefer to use spacers which ad a lot of structure to a battery made of 18650 cells.

I'm a little surprised too. When launching the configuration software for the controller (without the controller connected) it has options for Hall effect angle , phase angle offset, number of poles and rated motor speed. It is missing auto hall identification features so finding the correct sequence is probably a hassle. But since GM says it won't work I wouldn't throw money on it hoping they are wrong. It is cheap, but not that cheap.

I didn't know that all these parameters were adjustable in the controllers. Now I'm even more surprised.