Unresponsive to throttle, MP3 SOLVED!

[Sulanino]

Hello!

I fitted an 48/12 VDC converter on my wifes cargobike. First time I pressed the light switch the controller stopped working.
No response to throttle, wheel very hard to rotate by hand or foot (did not try any other bodyparts).

Disconnected the converter and bought a new controller from GM Canada and fitted it into the wheel (rear).
All LEDs lights up. Battery at 51 VDC. All wires and connections seems OK when measuring ohm (had to make cables longer to fit an cargobike). I have connected pins (http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=4599.msg26581#msg26581) to determin if the throttle is defect. But the wheel wont rotate unless I do it manually. And it then rotates nice and easy.
When braking after being rotated manually it takes a second or so before the wheel reacts to the braking handle being activated.

Any help much appreciated! THANKS!

-Lasse

[Bikemad]

Hi Lasse andto the forum.

Try measuring the voltage between the battery negative connection and the lower socket in the picture below where the paper clip (shown in blue) is inserted:


A reading of ~5V would at least indicate that the 5V output from the controller is not shorted to ground somewhere within the extended cable connections. 

Check to see if the voltage still reads ~5v while the paper clip is touching both sockets.

It is also worth checking that the brake signal wire has not been accidentally shorted to the ground connection within the extended cable connections.

I'm not sure what else to suggest at this stage other than re-checking every joint where the cable has been extended.

Alan
 

[Sulanino]

Thank you!

Did what you suggested. Please see attached file or link.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BxrZtr09lolEa3RTN3NYdU1SWGs/edit?usp=sharing

Extension cable and connectors (6-pin DIN) OK.

-Lasse

[Bikemad]

I have just studied your test results, and all of your voltage readings would appear to be correct.

My next suggestion would be to remove the controller to check that the 6 pin hall sensor connector is properly fitted and that non of the crimped sockets have been dislodged from the connector housing during the recent controller swap:



If the DC-DC inverter had somehow allowed a high voltage pulse to damage the controller, I'm wondering whether the hall sensors may have also been damaged at the same time.

If you connect the battery and then check the signal voltage on each of the Yellow, Green and Blue wires on the 6 pin connector, you should have a reading which regularly alternates between 5V and 0V as the wheel is turned very slowly by hand.

If all three signal wires produce the correct 0V, 5V, 0V, 5V... when the wheel is turned, then the hall sensors are obviously working correctly.
However, if you have a continuous reading within the 0 to 5V range which does not change when the wheel is rotated, this would be a good indication that the hall sensor has failed.

If all three hall sensors are all still working properly, I would say that the replacement controller (or its wiring harness) is faulty.
You could check for continuity between the green throttle signal wire which goes from the  "sb" connection on the controller's PCB to the top hole where the paper clip was inserted on the 8 pin socket.
If continuity on the throttle signal wire is OK, then the problem must be within the controller unit itself.

One more suggestion, as your battery gauge LEDs are lighting up it's easy to assume that the battery is working OK, but I have heard instances where a non running motor problem had been traced to a battery fault, even though the throttle LEDs were all lighting up correctly!
 
I know it seems unlikely, but could the DC-DC converter have somehow damaged the battery's BMS?

It might be worth trying another battery if you have access to one, or even connecting a hair dryer (or mains voltage electric fire etc.) to you battery and checking you have current flowing.

Please let us know what you find.

Alan
 

[Sulanino]

Thank you.

Extension cable (CAT5 UTP LAN cable): OK The 6 colours at the wheel ends up being connected to the same colours at the other end. No cross connections on the way.

Hall sensors: OK (i think) Measuring between the RED +4,7 VDC and each of the 3 signal wires makes the reading shift between 0,65 VDC and 4,65 VDC (approximate readings).

Battery: OK. I only have one and I do not know of others in Denmark (www.denmark.dk) riding Golden Motors. I took 4 bulbs (12 V, 21 W) in series and connected them to the battery. At the time the battery had a voltage of 58,6. Judging from the light and heat coming from the bulbs I would say the battery can deliver some power.
EDIT: I did not measure I (A). The fuse in my ampere meter seems to be defect.
-Lasse

[MAGICPIE3FOCUSPOWER]

Have you try with hall sensors conector disconnected.

[Sulanino]

Have you try with hall sensors conector disconnected.

No, not yet! 

-Lasse

[Bikemad]

As all of your wiring seems to be correct and the hall sensors appear to be working correctly, I am reasonably sure that the controller itself must be at fault, but I would suggest one final check to eliminate all possible wiring problems:

Double check that the three phase wires are correctly attached to the correct screw terminals on the controller.
(The yellow wire is connected to terminal marked YELLOW etc...)

If the phase wires are correct, but the motor still does not run, then I think the controller will need to be replaced.

Alan

P.S. I forgot to mention that if the battery is supplying enough current (1~2 Amps) to light those bulbs then it should allow the motor to run.
 

[Sulanino]

All three phase (AC motor?) wires are connected to the correct terminals.

Thank you.

-Lasse

[Sulanino]

Have you try with hall sensors conector disconnected.

No, not yet! 

-Lasse

Will not turn without hallsensors.

-Lasse

[MAGICPIE3FOCUSPOWER]

Also settings are right for the new controller?
I mean phase angle setting.

[Sulanino]

Also settings are right for the new controller?
I mean phase angle setting.

Angle set at 120. I believe that is correct. Right?

-Lasse

[MAGICPIE3FOCUSPOWER]

Yup.
Have you also checked if your thumb/twist throttle is working properly?

[Bikemad]

MP3FP, Check out the initial post in this topic and you will see that Lasse has already carried out a simple test to completely bypass the throttle, brake switches and the complete front harness and multi connector assembly, so the fault is most likely to be the controller (or motor harness wiring attached to it) and not the throttle.

Lasse, have you contacted Gary (GM Canada) regarding the suspect replacement controller?

Alan
 

[Sulanino]

MP3FP, Check out the initial post in this topic and you will see that Lasse has already carried out a simple test to completely bypass the throttle, brake switches and the complete front harness and multi connector assembly, so the fault is most likely to be the controller (or motor harness wiring attached to it) and not the throttle.

Lasse, have you contacted Gary (GM Canada) regarding the suspect replacement controller?

Alan

I did so yesterday.

""You could try the trouble shooting area of my faq
 
www.goldenmotor.ca/FAQ
 
Let me know if you still have no luck.
 
Gary Salo
Golden Motor Canada""

-Lasse