Author Topic: My Magic Pie went dead (Pairing Magic pie with ecrazyman 1500w controller)  (Read 50650 times)

Offline Avantgarder

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Re: My Magic Pie went dead
« Reply #45 on: March 20, 2012, 11:58:33 AM »
I wonder how these cable are.  They are used to carry high Amps inside power amplifiers.
http://www.partsconnexion.com/wire_hookup_cardas.html.
They improve the sound and bass delivery by allowing bursts of currents.

Offline Leslie

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Re: My Magic Pie went dead
« Reply #46 on: March 20, 2012, 01:19:36 PM »
I really can't remember my gauge. I think I  I think I got 12 or 14awg through.  See GM make theirs with much thinner insulator and it's stronger.

You would be better to go local for this and see and feel and ask. I see some great marine wire on eBay but it is tinned.  Can I ask WTH with? 

I really didn't do this part online.  See in Australia we speak kangaroo, meaning our standards and language differ.  And sometime I don't think internet sites know what they talk about never offering enough information. 
« Last Edit: March 21, 2012, 02:53:17 AM by spellchecker »

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Offline Leslie

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Re: My Magic Pie went dead
« Reply #47 on: March 20, 2012, 01:43:42 PM »
http://www.dave-cushman.net/elect/wiregauge.html

My wire is 4mm diameter by insulator and maybe 2.8mm wire diameter. 

I lost my glasses, and I'm lost without my glasses.  :o

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Offline Leslie

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Re: My Magic Pie went dead
« Reply #48 on: March 20, 2012, 01:52:15 PM »
Because we don't have the outter shield and we insalling our own hall sensor wire we cab do better than an external gm hub phase wire.  The USB wires are thinner than GM and seem to work just fine so we can get a couple more mm in their..

The you need moderate flex for shock and weather resistant insulator able to do +60v  Usually inslators isnt a problem, lots over 600v+.

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Offline Morgen 3Eman

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Re: My Magic Pie went dead
« Reply #49 on: March 20, 2012, 07:02:48 PM »
Hi Avantgarder, 

The wire you linked to was a good choice.  It has multiple strands for flexibility, and a thin insulator for reduced diameter to thread thru the axle.  BUT,  (caps on purpose) there is no info on insulation breakdown voltage.  I previously stated you can use a smaller wire to carry a high current over short distances.  You should NEVER select an insulation breakdown rating under or even near your applied voltage.  IMHO  you should not "carefully reduce the diameter of the insulation".  This is just asking for trouble.  Get some wire with physically thinner insulation. 

Hi Les. 

If English is not your native language, let me apologize for what I'm about to say.  Your use of the math on Ohms law shows a general understanding of its importance. 

But, if your think this quoted information is correct, you have a severe misunderstanding of electricity, or you are trying to BS the kind folks on this board.


Begin quote:


There are 3 different effects that damage wires. 

1: Electron- hole pressure ionic break down

2: Electron-hole resitance, thermal break down .

3: physical damage.

1: High voltage pushes deeper into the conductor strands, and if too thin the electron pressure vs electron ionic bonding coherence of the strand conductor does bad things.

Where as voltages, the pressure shoves electron current into the conductor paths, and this is where ohms law comes into play. 

2:High current (I) and less strands = more resistance. The voltage has to divide into less current pathways.  V/I=R

However if your conductor strands are up to the task, the higher the voltages actually aids current as more electrons and holes is pushed through a single strand because of higher pressure, this causes lower resistance to current naturally..

1:So say if your wire is rated at 40v 100 amps and your pushing 50v through it at 1 amp.  Not all conductors are going to be used efficiently each strand being utilized to max potential becomes bombarded by energy and slowly each strand will break down and react with its environment..  Slowly each conductor strand fails until you have next to none left.  Slowly cutting current pathways until the last few remain, the resistance raises at 50v.  Not after too long you wont get 1 amp through this wire little only 100 amps.

2: Say your wire is rated at 60v 10 amps.  And you're pushing 50v @ 50 amps. There isn't enough voltage to interfere with the ion bonds in the conductor, but the current will be forced through all the strands less efficiently as the electron are not being pushed so deep into conductor and the strands are resistance resisting both the pressure and current permitted to flow though the conductor from point A to B .  Current (I) is multiplied by the resistance equals voltage.  I*R=V

End quote.

This level of explanation is dangerously wrong.

You also described stranded wires as being blackened by the voltage pressure.   What you saw was really common corrosion induced by the chemicals of the insulation. 

Again, if English is not your native tongue, it is entirely possible that the erroneous BS was merely an artefact of translation from your native tongue.  And if so, I apologize for my rude comments. 

Sincerely, with no malice intended,
Dennis



 
« Last Edit: March 21, 2012, 02:48:23 AM by spellchecker »

Offline Leslie

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Re: My Magic Pie went dead
« Reply #50 on: March 21, 2012, 04:53:02 AM »
No I said the energy levels get to a point it makes the conductor react with it environment.  We are talking about 50v 4awg handling no more than 20 amps and failing with in months, compared to 10 awg being able to handle the same indefinetly.  There only can be one explaination.

Electricity skims along the conductor surface, more surface the more current, this is called skin effect.  The higher the voltage the deeper you push into the skin until it start to bounce in and off the conductor and even arc if you really push the volatges..  This is such damage I explain over a longer term. 


I saw one exoperiment where they pummped 10,000' amps through a thick metal plate, 10cm long @ 1v and the plate just lights up an awesome bright white for as long as you apply the currrent.   10,000 watts. 

Now reverse the situation 10,000v @ 1 amp.  Heheheheh  Kapow.  Learning anything here. 

Explain why 1.2v @ @ 1000 amps wont kill you  but 1200 volts a 1 amps will kill you dead. 

The difference between a bullet and a truck going 1km per hour..

Maybe they or who ever, don't understand something I do, I suggest this is the case.  Are you one of these people that think it's current that kills?

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Offline Leslie

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Re: My Magic Pie went dead
« Reply #51 on: March 21, 2012, 05:56:44 AM »
Voltage pushes jumps and current infiltrates floods. 

I used to love playing with plasma balls, the arc from the single strand conductor, that is a lot thicker than most stands in the wire we use, etchs out conductors, causes corrosion,  oxdization, and builds nano partcles, all those nasties I mention all from a power pack lucky to delivers 12 watts.  Virtual electrolysys in mid air.  We are not talking about vaccume.  Air, particles, works as an electrolyte at high voltages and there is only so much electrical pressure that an atom can take before it's usuall properties and behavior changes dramtically. 

All electro chemistry, revolves around changing the energy level of one atom to take on a different signature.  What they can do with fusion we can do everything with electricty.  The saying there is more than one way to skin a cat is not untrue.

To make an atom behave as if it was another, just add or take power.  Simple H O2 generater, by adding enegy to water, we can make make H and O2 stable appart and behave differently to its original form.  By burning oxygen and and hydrogen you remove that energy and it returns back into water.  Yeah Fukashima should of been an energy implosion, it looked more like weaponized uranium to me.

Material and environment has everything to do with voltage rating as well.  I was just correcting the OP about his assumption thick strands are good for current.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-YwbgXpnkA

Check this out.  By errecting an ultra high energy electrical field around the iron bar with enough current to contain the moles, we can manipluate solid Iron with another direct energy field..  I guess what happens here is he turns the atomic bonding within the Iron to a semi non newtonic state with the static field, and with a little directed energy jiggles the atoms as to warp the Iron, mind you, with out much controll over the manipulation.  Still it's a good start. 

These experiments are old and done through a home power outlet..  Hutchison is just a hack hwo got his hands on some old military expermental equipment, he thinks he is on to some free energy thing. A wall outlet can indeed provide the energy to warp this Iron bar many different ways, you just need to look at it in perspectve.

Over a longer period, say a month or two, 10 watts could turn this iron block into dust, just by using ultra high voltages.

It is my belief this technology is much more advanced under the cloak of secrecy.  Only one could imagine the implications.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2012, 06:02:29 AM by Les »

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Offline Morgen 3Eman

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Re: My Magic Pie went dead
« Reply #52 on: March 21, 2012, 05:52:08 PM »
Explain why 1.2v @ @ 1000 amps wont kill you  but 1200 volts a 1 amps will kill you dead.

Hi Les,

You asked for an explanation in the line I copied.  As an attendee or lecturer for close to 40 years of electrical safety training, this is very easy.  You have framed the question parameters wrong.   

For the sake of argument, lets assume the resistance of the human body is 1K Ohm, and we have two voltage sources that can easily push 1000 Amps.   It is easy to see that 1200 volts across 1000 Ohms will yield a current through the body of 1.2 Amps.  And the owner of the body will probably die.  (Most medical guys put the 50LEL at 350 mA. )  Now take a similar body, ('Cause that one is dead) and apply 1.2 volts across it.  The current will be 1.2 mA, and almost no one will notice any effect.  In other words, you can't get 1000 amps to flow through the body at 1.2 volts.  The parameters of your statement were not valid.  If you don't agree with the 1KOhm value, please substitute any reasonable value you like.  The first guy will wind up dead, and the second guy will never notice it. 


Regarding your Hutchinson link, since Photo Shop became available, you cannot believe anything you find on the internet.  For instance, I am much taller, younger and better looking on the net than I am at home.  I suspect the same for you. :) 

Have a good day!

TTFN,
Dennis






Offline Leslie

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Re: My Magic Pie went dead
« Reply #53 on: March 21, 2012, 07:12:56 PM »
Explain why 1.2v @ @ 1000 amps wont kill you  but 1200 volts a 1 amps will kill you dead.

Hi Les,
.  You have framed the question parameters wrong.   


No I have not.  I could provide 1000 amps potential @1.2v but will only draw 1.2ma due to the resistance.  Your answer was right but my question was not wrong. 

To ask you such a question in the right context that you say I should ask, I would have to provide the answer too.

Let me rephrase the question 

Why can we survive 1.2v @ 1.2ma where as  1200v @ 1amp kill you dead.  LOL the question doesnt even make sense now. :o

And if someone showed us they could cook a chicken with no fire 200 years ago through thin air I think id turn to science for an explanation, would you cry witch craft and burn them? 

I don't live in a bubble where I just have to reproduce what I am told to just to conform.. 

We have an imagination that can look beyond what is already there.   

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfPeprQ7oGc

Watch this through.

Im sure I'm not the only person that can explan why this is so, well I hope so.  There is a reason why the answer hasnt came out now, similar to why nature is guarding this secret. Like spliting atoms  Some secrets are best kept a secret. But seeing the hutchinson effect is out there well why not discuss it.  I can understand how this works.

But to think there is so much out there yet to discover.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2012, 07:16:44 PM by Les »

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Offline Morgen 3Eman

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Re: My Magic Pie went dead
« Reply #54 on: March 21, 2012, 07:42:34 PM »
Hi Les,

I think you and I have fundamentally different views of how the universe operates.  So, unless you tell someone something that will cause harm, I'm going to let you enjoy your world.

TTFN,
Dennis

Offline Leslie

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Re: My Magic Pie went dead
« Reply #55 on: March 21, 2012, 07:56:11 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3U0kLgKWoo

Watch.  I don't see any photoshop. And no hanky panky spinning the camera around with the room.   This is just a handheld super 8 cam dated as far back as 1988.

Sure a lot of this could be trick photgraphy, but some of it is difficult to do, if they are such hoaxes the video would be in perfect quality or the outcome of the hutchinsons effect would look fake.


By tuning into the resonant frequencies of a particular element you can effect that elements.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejHXMqPfytw

Burning salt water with radio waves.

His original Idea for cancer was much more brilliant than his salt water burning.  I agree you can not escape the laws of thermodynamics.  But you can find new energy, a source that is untapped.  EG the energy that holds rock together can be harnessed.

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Offline Leslie

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Re: My Magic Pie went dead
« Reply #56 on: March 21, 2012, 08:10:19 PM »
Hi Les,

So, unless you tell someone something that will cause harm, I'm going to let you enjoy your world.

TTFN,
Dennis

Like Im some person that is going to kill someone.  Watchout

The GM safety officer is here we are safe now. 


It was my cable turning black then green before my eyes. running all the way into the cable under the insulator.  I have seen it more than once.   

It was capable of exceeding 200 amps.  The only spec was out on the cable was the voltage. 

You don't have to explain, I already did.  Thanx for the troll.


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Offline Avantgarder

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Re: My Magic Pie went dead
« Reply #57 on: March 26, 2012, 11:50:30 AM »
The good news :
1. I managed to squeeze the three 2.5mm^2 cables + the haul sensor cables via the tiny axis notch .
2. Instead of the horrible snap rings I coiled a solid copper wire to attache the cables to the notch. It feels and looks solid, secure and much healthier to the cables than the stock solution.
3. I verified that there is no shortcut or disconnection in any of the squeezed cables.
4.  I assembled the motor back to the wheel and everything is now in its place. The wheel rotates beautifully...
5. I downloaded the exact parameters (per specific setting sent to me) to the controller via USB cable
6. I connected the ecrazy 1500w controller to my bicycle exactly per instructions which included "cross-connecting yellow and blue power cables".

The bad news :
After everything is connected something is still wrong. When I open throttle I hear a vague sound as if the motor starts to move but then it cuts power.
I'm 100% sure I connected everything correctly . I'm very skilled with soldering and I work very carefully and systematically.

What do I do now ?
Any  idea how to troubleshoot ?
What should I measure where in order to isolate the problematic area or problematic connection ?
« Last Edit: March 26, 2012, 11:53:08 AM by Avantgarder »

Offline Avantgarder

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Re: My Magic Pie went dead
« Reply #58 on: March 26, 2012, 05:20:24 PM »
Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeha !    ;D
The problem was that haul sensor cables were not cross-connected in the same way as Power cables.
Now that both power cables and haul sensor cables are crossed everything is fine.
Blue->yellow
yellow->blue
green->green

I'll take care of all the finish and report how the bike is :-)


Offline Avantgarder

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Re: My Magic Pie went dead
« Reply #59 on: March 26, 2012, 07:06:34 PM »
I went out for a ride and it seems that the power is not fluent. As if I'm running a step motor.
Significantly better then yesterday and a prove that nothing was damaged but not perfect.
Could it be an issue of motor settings ?
« Last Edit: March 26, 2012, 07:08:27 PM by Avantgarder »