New Test 16S LiPo

[o00scorpion00o]

Al right Chaps,

I fried the halls in my mac, poor thing. I did a stupid thing by plugging the halls into the cycle analyst plug of the controller! oops! 

How did I do that? well I like jst sm connectors and the only one I had left for the mac was a 6 pin and of course the cycle analyst is 6 pin so ......

I won't make that mistake again as I have a 5 pin jst for the mac now! 

Anyway my friend Pat kindly allowed me to have a loan of my old pie (he now has a mac) so I decided to test it on 16S lipo that's 66.4 hot off the charger and around 60 volts nominal!

33 mph on an infineon with 120% speed setting. 40 amp battery and 70 amp phase, it flies and has tonnes of torque. Running 2kw up a steap hill for a few miles full throttle 2kw constant the phase wires were cool (12G alfa eco wire ) and the motor was barely warm at 28-30 mph up the hill.

I'm confident the motor will take 5kw constant and 7kw or more peak, but that would probably  break your bike frame 

Think of it like this 16S will do 33 mph on flat hot off charger that's 3kw peak on acceleration and around 1200-1500 watts on flat to maintain 32 mph.

So 21S  LiPO, 87.15 volts would do around 40+ mph that at 40 amps battery would be 3100 and around 4.6kw peak, that's about 6hp peak! 

I really think 33mph is more than fast enough, however I might test with higher battery and phase current for faster acceleration, it will lift the front wheel as it is if I'm not careful, another setting to play with is block time which allows max phase current to be pulled for a set time 1+ seconds, usually set to 1 second default.

The pie is a fun motor!

[DirtyGinge]

hi Mark

I did a short run hot of the charger with 84V last year  on a lyen, got 44+, but it scared the crap out of me.....short lived, about 10 seconds peak

p.s. just about to start with my new 12S5P lipo,, just working out a nice config for wiring... ( 20 X 3S1P packs), let you know how I get on

[o00scorpion00o]

Hi Ginge,

I hope you are well?

Going 40 on a push bike is scary and fun, kind of a buzz lol

I always said 20 is fast enough, then 30, now 40, but I really should stop at that.

It's amazing how the extra voltage makes the pie more efficient for hill climbing, obviously you consume more going faster on the flat. The lower voltage battery going up hill means it bogs down and it pulls more amps, so that means more inefficiency up hill because the motor needs to spin fast to be efficient, that's how the geared hubs do so well. I'm amazed GM doesn't have a high power geared hub like the mac. I know gears are an issue, but mac seemed to have solved that!

Basically the pie goes up the same hill around the same speed as the mac consuming around the same watts, only difference the mac can do it on 12S where you need 16S for the pie, meaning the mac is a lot more efficient.......or is it? not necessarily, both motors consume around the same up the hill meaning they are around the same, the pie just needs more voltage to spin faster, to be more efficient! 

How are you getting on with the mac? 12S is sure nice on the mac, if that's the motor you intend to use it with? you going to have 30 ah? not bad!

By the way check out this post

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=30021

Gary seems to be on to something with this new bms, it would make life very easy for you with 12S, I would nearly go back from 16S to 12 just for the easiness of being able to plug lipo in so easy to charge, but 16S is addictive on the mac lol


Mark

[DirtyGinge]

Jesus mark, this stuff is deadly....ive just never seen 3.7V cell output that much oomph...

So ginger does the experimental wiring......so far lost 2 connectors and a charger...and I don't mean just dead, I mean blown apart like TNT was used......luckily I was drunk so not affected by fright...but hell...

New connectors in place, new fuses in place./...battery continuous rated at 300A, peak at 450A, 50 volt 15ah....think thats ready for tomorrows maiden test

I aint been this scared since meeting my first girlfriends parents

[DirtyGinge]

you know what, the mac and the pie are both strong in their different areas.....i love the fact that I can push the pie to whatever KW I like, go cross country. go any weather I like...but the mac is also a cyclists motor.....spare parts on demand, great customer service......

MAC = Euro BMW M3......refined tech

PIE = USA muscle car....all metal and oomph...

Which is better........well put it this way. im prepping my pie for this winter. ( remember all, I called it early at being a bad winter)....mac is the summer motor

                                                                           

[o00scorpion00o]

Jesus mark, this stuff is deadly....ive just never seen 3.7V cell output that much oomph...

So ginger does the experimental wiring......so far lost 2 connectors and a charger...and I don't mean just dead, I mean blown apart like TNT was used......luckily I was drunk so not affected by fright...but hell...

New connectors in place, new fuses in place./...battery continuous rated at 300A, peak at 450A, 50 volt 15ah....think thats ready for tomorrows maiden test

I aint been this scared since meeting my first girlfriends parents

LMAO, you're a funny chap ginge!

Defiantly keep away from the alcohol when configuring LiPo for charging and discharging!

I blew apart a connector from a short, oops. But luckily I know the 30 amp andersons act like a fuse and will destroy themselves before the battery explodes, so that's one thing to take into account.

The 30 amp Andersons are more than enough for connecting these packs for E-Bike use, they only use a tiny fraction of the current these packs are capable of and a lot less than the more expensive 90C Turnigy's for instance!

My connectors don't even get warm, and one of the important things is to not stick the connectors together, their current rating halfs, byt he way it saves me connecting fuses in line with each battery, I have a 60 amp fuse on the output though!

But yeah LiPo is good stuff just remember to keep them charged to 4.15 and discharge to not much less than 3.5V supposed to do wonders for life!

By the way what kind of charger do you use? I use an Icharger, but I just bought a charger that's supposed to charge to 66.4 volts, that's if they set it correctly. But the trick is to leave a good 2 amps or more in the pack that going more makes the cells go out of balance and makes bulk charging not so easy!

So the plan is to ride and charge up after 2-5 amp hrs of use without having to split the pack up!


Mark

[o00scorpion00o]

you know what, the mac and the pie are both strong in their different areas.....i love the fact that I can push the pie to whatever KW I like, go cross country. go any weather I like...but the mac is also a cyclists motor.....spare parts on demand, great customer service......

MAC = Euro BMW M3......refined tech

PIE = USA muscle car....all metal and oomph...

Which is better........well put it this way. im prepping my pie for this winter. ( remember all, I called it early at being a bad winter)....mac is the summer motor

                                                                           

Ha yeah, I do agree, each motor has it's advantages but the mac really made me fit and I lost 20 kgs because I could pedal it so much more easier than the Pie, but I still love the pie especially on 16S LiPo, 32 mph max, I will try 18-20 S someday.

The plan is eventually buy a good second hand downhill bike, I just wish I could afford a bomber from stealthbikes!

Yes winter 2011-12 is supposed to be as cold or colder in parts like last year and I got to say I never came across a duller cooler summer in all my life!

[DirtyGinge]

well I plan to use the turnigy x5....as my packs are 3s, I can charge 4 at the same time through the balance wires.....well I mean I plan to once the replacement comes lol...blown to crap...will have to figure out a way to change the top chargejk to 4.15....

i split my pack into 5, so that if one pack goes up, its not going to tear through the rest, and a 20amp fuse on each pack, so hopefully that should keep me safe

nice and pokey, but did seem to drop votlage quicker than I expected, but that could be me being used to a different discharge curve

[o00scorpion00o]

The Icharger is a good charger and you can set the charge voltage easily!

You do need a 24 volt power supply though, I could only afford the 15 volt for now so I can charge at only 15 amps.

It charges the 4x 6s 5ah zippy's in about 1hr 20 mins, then I have to charge the 2x 4S separately which is a pain, so I ordered a 66.4 volt 400 watt charger for bulk charging which shouldn't be an issue if the cells are fairly  balanced.

It will be very useful to put back 6 ah or less, and by doing that the cells should stay well balanced by not running the cells too low, that's when they get imbalanced!

[DirtyGinge]

Oh wow, pulled my first 12 Ah from the lipo....nice

What charger are you using for bulk charging the lipo...

[o00scorpion00o]

I haven't bulk charged yet, still waiting from bmsbattery. You have to tell them the exact voltage to set. It's the emc-400 charger.

400 watts should be plenty to charge on the go and still be small enough to carry around if I need to.

I ordered one from evassemble a few weeks ago and it didn't work, so whatever you do, stay away from them, I heard bad things about them, but bmsbattery seems to be a good company to deal with!

By the way Ginge, what charger are you using? I don't believe you said.

When you said the voltage dropped, do you mean from hot off the charger or in general?

I long for the day the batteries hold 4 or 5 times the charge, all they seem to be interested in doing is increasing cycle life, but I'd rather carry a 60 volt 50ah battery that weighs the same as my 10ah. Somehow I think by the time my Lipo is dead in 2 years maybe 3 that I'll get at least twice the Ah!


Mark 

[DirtyGinge]

Hi Mate

I have used many chargers from BMSBattery, and have an EMC400 beside me right now.......really good chargers......have had 3 with no problems.. also have an EMC 600.....really great on lithium batteries...gonna have to open this puppy up and do some adjustment 


Doesnt lipo and lithium ion have a slightly different charge profile ?

[o00scorpion00o]

Hi Mate

I have used many chargers from BMSBattery, and have an EMC400 beside me right now.......really good chargers......have had 3 with no problems.. also have an EMC 600.....really great on lithium batteries...gonna have to open this puppy up and do some adjustment 


Doesnt lipo and lithium ion have a slightly different charge profile ?

I think it's fine to charge the LiPo with a Li- Ion charger, they are all cc/cv and once it's set for 4.15 volts x cell No you should be fine.

I requested mine to be set for 66.4 volts for 16S LiPo charging to 4.15 per cell.

It's good to know the chargers work from bmsbattery, just be careful you don't exceed the capacitors max rating, that's the mistake I made on the evessemble charger, they gave me the wrong one altogether it was not capable of more than about 60 volts, I adjusted and blew a cap, it was rated 63 volts. I should have checked, but I didn't think they would be that bad to send me a charger not even capable of the voltage required, it was bad enough the sent it to me dead!

It's a 600 watt charger and all. I may repair it some day, but I don't know how to set the current settings. so might use it for spares!

Remember though charge only a well balanced pack and keep an eye on it while charging, the cell logs are very handy. just one cell over charged and major fireball !

Check out this link

http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=30021

Gary is creating a bms for 12S LiPO for now, he may increase the cell capability later. But it will look after the charging and discharging. The beauty of it is it only has one fet for the charging and 0 fet's on the discharge meaning no limit on discharging. And uses throttle limiting if a cell reaches too low a voltage rather than trip the whole pack. It will get you home at reduced power. Hopefully it works well.

It is simple and should be reliable, that's what's missing for LiPo is a good reliable bms!


Mark

[DirtyGinge]

yup set my emc 600 to 49 colts, 6 amps as an initial experiment....i can always finish them off tonight with my accucel 6...

I decided to go with turnigy x5's for work, and I might bulk charge with the emc for home.......

3 adjustables on the board, 1 for high voltage, 1 for amp charge, I guess the 3rd is cut off amps.....

[o00scorpion00o]

Ginge me old pal, 

Would ye be ever so kind as to open the charger and take a pic and show me which one is which? 

I find it impossible to adjust these chargers as I don't know how to make them come on without a battery connected!

Thanks Ginge,

Mark