Author Topic: Best Controller for the Magic Pie II  (Read 13916 times)

Offline Just

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Best Controller for the Magic Pie II
« on: May 14, 2011, 07:51:08 PM »
Hi guys,

Wanna share  your opinion what's the best Controller for the Magic Pie II motor?

Please provide links to the products.

Thank you

Offline DirtyGinge

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Re: Best Controller for the Magic Pie II
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2011, 08:36:07 PM »
personally I love the infineon controllers...ooodles of power and very customisable, very cool running

www.ebikes.ca

lyen@hotmail.com

Infineon lyen edition 12 Fet
Goldenmotor Magic pie rear ....2000 Watt peak
oh yea.....Im too fat :)...but cute, oh yea, im cute

Offline T5T

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Re: Best Controller for the Magic Pie II
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2011, 09:51:40 PM »
The best composition - "menu" is as follows
Magic Pie / Lyen Edition 18 fet controller / Ping battery 48V 15amp
No rain, a little overcast, not too hot
iiiiiiiiihhhhhaaaaaaaaaa
This menu allows you feeling full and satisfied.
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
« Last Edit: May 14, 2011, 09:54:10 PM by T5T »

Offline Just

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Re: Best Controller for the Magic Pie II
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2011, 10:38:49 PM »
How many Amps does 1 FET give? 5A? Will 18FETs give 90Amps?

T5T, what setting do you use in the controller? what's values for the continuous and peak currents? are there others?

Did you try running it on 60V battery or higher (GM officially support up to 60V)?

Any info are welcome....

Dirtygige, thank you for the Lyen's email. Will send him my query...

Offline Just

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Re: Best Controller for the Magic Pie II
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2011, 10:42:54 PM »
BTW, Ping batteries provide up to 2C in max continuous discharge current. For 15Amps battery it would be 30AMPs only... In this case there is no needs in a powerful controller ....

Offline Cornelius

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Re: Best Controller for the Magic Pie II
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2011, 05:47:12 AM »
How many Amps does 1 FET give? 5A? Will 18FETs give 90Amps?

More FETs in a controller usually gives a more robust and cooler running controller...

GM's controllers have 6 FETs; 3 for handling motoring, and 3 for handling regen. (one for each phase)
The FETs used are P140NF75, which can handle max 75V, and max 120A continous each with proper cooling.
If the controller had 2 FETs in parallel for each phase, it would still handle max 75V, but could handle max 240A for each phase, and would then run cooler for the same power run through. (now, the gm magic controllers (so far), handles only around 60V max, due to some capacitors at the voltage input. :) )

All this said; the GM controllers are, by the firmware, limited to max 30A continous, 50A peak. This to protect said FETs, and of course, to avoid overheating and burnout of the GM motors which the controllers are designed for. :)

I am not familiar with other controllers, like the Infineon, but I'm sure if they're properly configured for the motors one use them on, they'll perform just as good as, if not better than GM's... ;)

Offline gf3

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Re: Best Controller for the Magic Pie II
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2011, 10:09:36 AM »
How many Amps does 1 FET give? 5A? Will 18FETs give 90Amps?

More FETs in a controller usually gives a more robust and cooler running controller...

GM's controllers have 6 FETs; 3 for handling motoring, and 3 for handling regen. (one for each phase)
The FETs used are P140NF75, which can handle max 75V, and max 120A continous each with proper cooling.
If the controller had 2 FETs in parallel for each phase, it would still handle max 75V, but could handle max 240A for each phase, and would then run cooler for the same power run through. (now, the gm magic controllers (so far), handles only around 60V max, due to some capacitors at the voltage input. :) )





All this said; the GM controllers are, by the firmware, limited to max 30A continous, 50A peak. This to protect said FETs, and of course, to avoid overheating and burnout of the GM motors which the controllers are designed for. :)

I am not familiar with other controllers, like the Infineon, but I'm sure if they're properly configured for the motors one use them on, they'll perform just as good as, if not better than GM's... ;)

think this bit is wrong http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=2195.msg11373#msg11373

Offline Cornelius

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Re: Best Controller for the Magic Pie II
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2011, 11:08:42 AM »
No, it has to have 3 mosfets to handle the regen separate from the 3 handling power TO the motor.

Edit:
You're right of course.  :P
I forgot that the motor was AC...  ::) Two mosfets in series for each phase, with the motor connected in the middle. :) One handling the negatives, and one handling the positives; which gets reversed during regen. :)
« Last Edit: May 15, 2011, 11:20:15 AM by Cornelius »

Offline MonkeyMagic

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Re: Best Controller for the Magic Pie II
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2011, 12:13:38 PM »
Yes and its not always the same (placement) of mosfets that fails too !

Alan? Could you use the extra room inside the wheel for some fans or something?
I also wanted to know if 2 of the aluminum heatsink plates fit in there, if there is enough clearance?

If so, I think I might mod my rear wheel and double up on the heatsink plate, and add a few fans in there.

And if I did this, I was going to connect the gnd of my auxilary 12v battery to my GM battery gnd and use the PAS unused wire for 12v+ --- apart from the risk of a short with the PAS wire somehow, does anyone see any problem doing this to get 12v+ with the least amount of wires?

I was thinking if connecting gnd of my 2 different batteries together was a problem, then I was going to connect a wire to my battery gnd and use the small black wire to the wheel along with the unused PAS wire to send 12+/12- to the wheel instead, although I'd prefer the above method.



Offline Bikemad

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Re: Heat dissipation
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2011, 06:21:30 PM »
Alan? Could you use the extra room inside the wheel for some fans or something?
I also wanted to know if 2 of the aluminum heatsink plates fit in there, if there is enough clearance?


There's obviously room if the fans are thin enough, I have a laptop cooler with three fans that fits underneath my laptop and it's only 14mm thick, but I'm not sure how effective fans are going to be just circulating warm air inside an enclosed chamber.

It would be better to find a way of allowing the heat to escape easier.
Quote
Matt black has a typical emissivity of 0.95, compared to 0.08 for polished aluminium.

Matt black surfaces are the best emitters and absorbers of radiation

Perhaps painting the back of the heatsink, the stator and the inside of the covers with matt black paint would be more beneficial, allowing the stator and heatsink to radiate heat better and the covers to absorb the radiated heat much better too.

As the outside of the covers and hub ring are mainly black anyway, it should cool pretty well with a constant airflow going over it.

If you really want to put fans inside the hub, you could very easily rig up six diodes on the phase leads as a rectifier to feed DC voltage the fans. The harder the motor works (power or regen) the higher the voltage going to the fans.

I think a can of matt black spray paint might achieve the best cooling results for the least amount of hassle.

Alan
 

Offline gf3

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Re: Best Controller for the Magic Pie II
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2011, 06:45:03 PM »
what about oil cooling I've seen over clocked pc in fish tanks  of oil to keep them cool

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sP45uBj4-k&feature=related

Offline DirtyGinge

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Re: Best Controller for the Magic Pie II
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2011, 07:25:00 PM »
well if you want cool air in there specifically for the controllers, then the best port of call is the axle entry / exit points....using the natural rotation of the wheel, a corkscrew assembly of fins would naturally either push air into the hub or pull air from it ( no need for both, as if you do, then you will only create a direct path, positive pressure would be best, pullling cold air into the hub

Personally, im thinking of severely overvolting my pie up to 96 volts, so im thinking of watercooling, with 8mm copper pipe around the diameter of the windings, cooled with a 120mm radiator and fan outside.....just a thought mind :D

You could of course ( if you don't ride in the wet, swisscheese the covers)
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/9942/coolingholes.jpg&imgrefurl=http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php%3Ff%3D6%26t%3D14954%26start%3D0&usg=__NSt5fqKPAWOJoASoET1bqQG_Vyk=&h=512&w=724&sz=96&hl=en&start=18&zoom=1&tbnid=DqLrS5o1xha4yM:&tbnh=133&tbnw=171&ei=bSjQTYDqIomy8QPfg9z0DQ&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dswisscheese%2Bhubmotor%2Bcover%26hl%3Den%26biw%3D1225%26bih%3D599%26gbv%3D2%26tbm%3Disch0%2C393&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=801&vpy=202&dur=3416&hovh=189&hovw=267&tx=189&ty=110&page=2&ndsp=17&ved=1t:429,r:4,s:18&biw=1225&bih=599
Infineon lyen edition 12 Fet
Goldenmotor Magic pie rear ....2000 Watt peak
oh yea.....Im too fat :)...but cute, oh yea, im cute

Offline Just

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Re: Best Controller for the Magic Pie II
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2011, 04:30:50 PM »

Which Controller is better - the LYEN one (http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=16998) or  from the KellyController (http://Kellycontroller.com/products.php)?


Offline DirtyGinge

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Re: Best Controller for the Magic Pie II
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2011, 07:26:10 PM »
Ive heard that both are equally as good, however as Kelly are a company and lyen is an individual, there is more room for custom requests from lyen, and he will send as a "gift", so the lyen could work out cheaper, but I don't honestly know which one is best....
Infineon lyen edition 12 Fet
Goldenmotor Magic pie rear ....2000 Watt peak
oh yea.....Im too fat :)...but cute, oh yea, im cute

Offline Just

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Re: Best Controller for the Magic Pie II
« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2011, 07:44:22 PM »
Is there a manual where Lyen explains how to program his controllers and what does each parameter mean? Thank you