Author Topic: Possible?: Dual Pies with Different Controllers on GM 48V  (Read 28359 times)

Offline Pwd

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Re: Possible?: Dual Pies with Different Controllers on GM 48V
« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2011, 07:55:24 PM »
I few questions have come up since I have been looking at wiring diagrams etc...

I would like to add a three way switch to switch the power like this:

[Rear Pie] --- [Both Pies] --- [Front Pie]
If I got a heavy duty switch is something like this possible? If not could someone explain why? I know very little about wiring things together.

Will modifying the wiring harness for the controls void my warranty?

Offline Bikemad

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Re: Switching Dual Pies
« Reply #16 on: March 03, 2011, 04:33:32 PM »
It would be much easier to use a small toggle switch on the throttle signal supply to the controllers, rather than use a heavy duty switch on the battery feed.

A single Mini DPDT ON-ON-ON Toggle switch would be a good choice, but you would also require a couple of 12K resistors connected between the +5V throttle supply and the throttle signal wires going to each controller to prevent throttle failure mode from being activated when either throttle is switched off.

The switch can easily be wired so that both motors operate together in the middle position, and front only or rear only at either end position of the switch.
If you would like to wire it up this way, let me know and I'll try and draw up a simple wiring diagram showing the required switch connections.

Another alternative would be to have a pair of On/Off switches, one on each controller's throttle signal lead to enable Front, Rear, Both or None, depending on the switched combinations. Each of these switches would still require a 12K resistor connected between the +5V throttle supply and the controller signal wire for the same reason mentioned above.

Switching the throttle signal would ensure that the regenerative braking would still work on both wheels, regardless of whether the throttle was turned on or off.

If you could get hold of enough matching plugs and sockets, you could make up a separate adaptor harness that could simply plug into one set of controls, and both of the motor harnesses, but crimping those tiny connector pins can be a very fiddly and time consuming job. ;)

So long as you take care with all of the connections and ensure they are all correctly joined and insulated, then you should not have a problem with the warranty. However, if you wire it wrong and reverse the polarity or supply battery voltage to the 5V supply lead etc. then that would be a completely different matter.  ::)

Alan
 
« Last Edit: March 03, 2011, 04:45:18 PM by Bikemad »

Offline Pwd

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Re: Possible?: Dual Pies with Different Controllers on GM 48V
« Reply #17 on: March 03, 2011, 04:52:36 PM »
Thanks Bikemad. I think I'll go with the On-On-On. If you have time, I think seeing a diagram would be useful to me to help understand where to put the resistors etc... Also can you explain why throttle failure would happen without resistors?

Basically, the switch will be for demonstration purposes and my theory that I can switch on both motors once I get up to speed without sucking too much current on take-offs from the battery causing it it cut out. Apparently there has been a minor issue with this; so people have modified the controller settings (something I don't want to have to do). + it would be nice to select from different drive modes for playing around :)


Offline MonkeyMagic

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Re: Possible?: Dual Pies with Different Controllers on GM 48V
« Reply #18 on: March 03, 2011, 05:16:59 PM »
I for one would love to see that demonstration of you 'getting up to speed' riding a dual drive before you enable the throttle :D

Monkey can foresee the switch being left on hehe

Hey PWD what did you mean by this part?
sucking too much current on take-offs from the battery causing it it cut out. Apparently there has been a minor issue with this; so people have modified the controller settings

cheers

Offline Pwd

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Re: Possible?: Dual Pies with Different Controllers on GM 48V
« Reply #19 on: March 03, 2011, 06:10:22 PM »
I for one would love to see that demonstration of you 'getting up to speed' riding a dual drive before you enable the throttle :D


Monkey can foresee the switch being left on hehe

Hey PWD what did you mean by this part?
sucking too much current on take-offs from the battery causing it it cut out. Apparently there has been a minor issue with this; so people have modified the controller settings

cheers


Ya, that would be tough to pedal, but I meant start out with one motor then witch it to both. Not using both immediately from takeoff.

As for that part here is where I read it:
Well I did it! It was alot easier then I imagined. I spliced into the white and black from the throttle and added another black female plug with only the white and black in it. Then I spliced into the brake wires and added another blue female plug. With everything plugged in normally from the back wheel, I just plugged in the blue and black plugs from the front wheel and of it goes!! I'll have to add another plug for the cruise Tomorrow, it was getting to late today. Im not sure if I just stated that in a way that makes sence. Maybe Leslie can do up a diagram for us.

Anyway I took it out for a test drive and HOLY SH*T does it ever fuggin go! Wow! Wow! Wow!

After a few hard takeoffs I kicked out the batteries. plugging them in for a second turned them back on. I then used the USB plug and turned down the regen, I almost wiped out the first time I braked. It was way to strong with two motors. I also cut the amps back to 15 continuous and 20 peak to stop kicking out the batteries. We will see how it performs hauling the trailor ten miles up hill in the morning. I think it will be a blast!

I have to upload a few pictures tomorrow of my Dual Slice of the PIe!


Gary

Offline GM Canada

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Re: Possible?: Dual Pies with Different Controllers on GM 48V
« Reply #20 on: March 04, 2011, 03:16:56 AM »
Please realize the black and white wires I was yammering on about there are actually black and green.

Other then that it is very simple. Here is a brutal looking setup I did to test my dual mini. There are four conections to make between controllers and you have dual drive. After I did these crude conections I taped them and zip tied that mess right to the crossbar on the bike and went for a test drive. That is how it looked when I went for that cold dark ride I first video taped.

Gary

Offline Bikemad

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Re: Dual Pie Throttle Switching
« Reply #21 on: March 04, 2011, 03:43:51 AM »
I think seeing a diagram would be useful to me to help understand where to put the resistors etc... Also can you explain why throttle failure would happen without resistors?

The 12K resistors are required to allow a voltage of around 0.8V to reach the controller via the throttle signal wire when the throttle is disconnected, otherwise it assumes the throttle is broken and will beep three times and automatically enter "Throttle Failure mode", providing half throttle to the motor whilst the cruise control button is pressed.

This diagram should hopefully be easy enough to follow:



Please note: the colour of the throttle signal wires (shown in White) may vary.

Alan
 
« Last Edit: June 30, 2017, 09:48:11 PM by Bikemad »

Offline MonkeyMagic

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Re: Possible?: Dual Pies with Different Controllers on GM 48V
« Reply #22 on: March 04, 2011, 06:30:56 AM »
Ya, that would be tough to pedal, but I meant start out with one motor then witch it to both. Not using both immediately from takeoff.

I think you will find the power to be more efficient using both motors, bottoming out one motor on take off would be far less efficient.

Are you considering internal or external controller?

If internal, you will be fine with a single GM battery, without any adjustments (maybe just regen %) and it won't cut out on take off (but a 5v drop!! lol)

External I cannot vouch for, but from what I've seen has at least 10A more peak current, so it could/would cut the BMS off a single battery

Ohhh so many choices lol


Offline Pwd

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Re: Possible?: Dual Pies with Different Controllers on GM 48V
« Reply #23 on: March 04, 2011, 03:58:24 PM »
Please realize the black and white wires I was yammering on about there are actually black and green.

Other then that it is very simple. Here is a brutal looking setup I did to test my dual mini. There are four conections to make between controllers and you have dual drive. After I did these crude conections I taped them and zip tied that mess right to the crossbar on the bike and went for a test drive. That is how it looked when I went for that cold dark ride I first video taped.

Gary

Sounds good, splitting the wires seems pretty straightforward.

I think seeing a diagram would be useful to me to help understand where to put the resistors etc... Also can you explain why throttle failure would happen without resistors?

The 12K resistors are required to allow a voltage of around 0.8V to reach the controller via the throttle signal wire when the throttle is disconnected, otherwise it assumes the throttle is broken and will beep three times and automatically enter "Throttle Failure mode", providing half throttle to the motor whilst the cruise control button is pressed.

This diagram should hopefully be easy enough to follow:



Please note: the colour of the throttle signal wires (shown in White) may vary.

Alan
 


Thanks very much, neat diagram. I think it will be pretty fun to be able to control the "drive system" on the fly. So in the diagram black is ground and red is power?

Ya, that would be tough to pedal, but I meant start out with one motor then witch it to both. Not using both immediately from takeoff.

I think you will find the power to be more efficient using both motors, bottoming out one motor on take off would be far less efficient.

Are you considering internal or external controller?

If internal, you will be fine with a single GM battery, without any adjustments (maybe just regen %) and it won't cut out on take off (but a 5v drop!! lol)

External I cannot vouch for, but from what I've seen has at least 10A more peak current, so it could/would cut the BMS off a single battery

Ohhh so many choices lol



o yeah, I expect it to be quite powerful on takeoff with another pie, I was just worried that it might cut the battery out running both pies from a stand still. It will be an internal controller, so I guess I don't have to worry about that.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2017, 09:49:21 PM by Bikemad »

Offline Bikemad

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Re: Possible?: Dual Pies with Different Controllers on GM 48V
« Reply #24 on: March 04, 2011, 04:20:49 PM »
So in the diagram black is ground and red is power?

The wires shown in the diagram are the thin throttle wires not thick battery wires, the Black is 0V and the Red is +5V.

To avoid any confusion, I haven't shown the other three separate wires coming from the throttle assembly:
Green is for the Battery +ve supply to power the LED battery indicator.
Brown and Yellow are the wires from the switch (used for LED lighting etc.)

Alan
 

Offline Pwd

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Re: Possible?: Dual Pies with Different Controllers on GM 48V
« Reply #25 on: March 04, 2011, 06:16:52 PM »
Thanks Alan, makes sense. I also just a look at http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=2605.msg15007#msg15007.

 - Paul

Offline Pwd

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Re: Possible?: Dual Pies with Different Controllers on GM 48V
« Reply #26 on: March 07, 2011, 06:30:07 PM »
Ok guys, a few more questions regarding the resistors etc...

I just came back from a local electronics store and picked up some 12K resistors. However I noticed they are 1/2W 2%, will these still be ok?

As far as the switch, no-one in town sees to have an On-On-On. There is an On-Off-On DPDT switch. Is the On-On-On functionality something that is wired internally on the switch or can I buy the On-Off-On?

Thanks in advance, now I just have to find a source for a steel plate to make a torque arm.

Offline Bikemad

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Re: Possible?: Dual Pies with Different Controllers on GM 48V
« Reply #27 on: March 08, 2011, 01:09:36 AM »
Paul, 1/2W 2% resistors are bigger than you need but they will be more than adequate for the job.

Regarding the switch, the On-On-On switch has a unique internal switching action which is necessary for this particular use if you want to be able to use both motors together and independently.

An On-Off-On switch will not allow you to select front, rear or both with just one switch, an additional switch would be needed to connect the front and rear together for simultaneous use.

You might be able to obtain an On-On-On toggle switch from your local model shop as they are sometimes used by model railway enthusiasts.
Another possible source might be a music shop who repair or modify electric guitars.

I've bought some Mini DPDT ON-ON-ON Toggle switches on eBay, but as they're coming from Hong Kong, I don't expect they will arrive for another week or so.

Alan
 

Offline Pwd

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Re: Possible?: Dual Pies with Different Controllers on GM 48V
« Reply #28 on: March 15, 2011, 11:34:58 PM »
Got a little bit of work done, installed the tire on my rear pie and then installed the wheel on the bike. I had to spread the frame a bit, but it fits. Now I just have to split all my controls and power. I have ordered an On-On-On switch too, so I'll eventually have that installed as well. My plan is to get it working over the weekend.

P.S. I hate fitting the tire backwards, happens almost every time.

Offline MonkeyMagic

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Re: Possible?: Dual Pies with Different Controllers on GM 48V
« Reply #29 on: March 16, 2011, 04:26:06 AM »
I hate fitting the tire backwards, happens almost every time.

Geez I thought I was the only one !!!

If it makes you feel better I did it twice when I put the last tyres on haha