Cycle Analyst Settings for Magic Pie speed control

[DirtyGinge]

Hi All

Still "tweaking" my Magic Pie goodness, and this wekend fitted my cycle analyst to try and bring the bike into legal for when im riding through built up areas...Its a great bit of kit for sure...real info on how the power gets used/wasted

Anyway, based on gary from goldenmtor.ca's post, have wired up the throttle return to the throttle pad on the CA board and shorted out jumper R6.......

However the unit on default settings seems to be really slow to react to an overshoot of the limit )speed or current) and then takes ages to return ( as it seems to cut the power too much)

Can you guys give me a heads up on the settings required to make the cycle analyst work with the Magic Pie please please
 
Many thanks to Gary, and shout to jim @ alienbikes.co.uk, who both have proved that customer service is in no way dead

[GM Canada]

Hi All

Still "tweaking" my Magic Pie goodness, and this wekend fitted my cycle analyst to try and bring the bike into legal for when im riding through built up areas...Its a great bit of kit for sure...real info on how the power gets used/wasted

Anyway, based on gary from goldenmtor.ca's post, have wired up the throttle return to the throttle pad on the CA board and shorted out jumper R6.......

However the unit on default settings seems to be really slow to react to an overshoot of the limit )speed or current) and then takes ages to return ( as it seems to cut the power too much)

Can you guys give me a heads up on the settings required to make the cycle analyst work with the Magic Pie please please
 
Many thanks to Gary, and shout to jim @ alienbikes.co.uk, who both have proved that customer service is in no way dead

Hi There..

If you are overshooting the speed limit setting by too much you need to adjust IntSGain

8.8 IntSGain
This value determines how rapidly the over-ride output will ramp down
when the speed of the vehicle exceeds the limit speed. Increasing this
value will speed up the response time for the speed control, but at the
risk of causing oscillations. Too low of a value will allow considerable
overshoot of the speed limit. The gain value can range from 0 to 999,
and the scaling is currently arbitrary.

Default is 200, I have mine set at 500

If it takes too long to recover try increasing ITermMin
 
8.12 ITermMin
This value imposes a lower bound on how low the throttle over-ride
can drift downwards when one of the limiting values is being
exceeded. By preventing the over-ride signal from going all the way to
0V, you can decrease the recovery time for the signal to go back
upwards. Range is from 0 to 4.99V, and must be less than ItermMax.

Default setting is .49v, which is so low your controller will think your throttle has failed. Try setting it about 1 volt below your itermMax setting and adjust it up or down as nessasary.

These settings are taken directly from the Cycle Analyst Manual available in the support section of my website or by clicking the following link

http://www.goldenmotor.ca/media/CycleAnalyst_Manual_Vers223.pdf

Gary

[DirtyGinge]

Many thanks gary....once again

Are all the other settings that you have pretty default then ?

I must admit, the initial performance of the control was so badly out, I suspected that some changes would need a big difference.....hope I can get this working stably, it really is surprising to see how so much ampage gets wasted at the top end, but watching the speedo / ampage constantly is going to see me loving up the back of a truck soon

regards

[DirtyGinge]

Hi Gary and all

Tried the above settings, and all seems a little crazy...if I set the limit to 10MPHm the throttle will quite happily run at 30MPH with no limit whatsoever with minutes going by, or sometimes jsut limits crazily if I let go of the throttle and then rev again.....doesnt seem to be the electronics as

Voltage prior to diode .89
voltage after resistor and diode......69 ( varies with throttle...nothign abnormal)
sink is soldered to the th pad on the board, and with R6 shorted out...

settings as below
psgain    50
initsgain   500
initagain   500
initvgain    800
iterm max    3.79
iterm min   1.00
auxvolt    off
auxthreshold   0.9


can anybody spot an obvious mistake, or shall I go back to basics ( recheck for bad solder joint R6.......p.s. how did you guys short it out ??)

Didnt want to appear that I hadnt read the manual, but nothing I did behaved at all, seems something is badly wrong...

many thanks

[DirtyGinge]

Hi All

Just to add to the mystery.... powered off, restart, and I am limited to 2.8 MPH ( nice and steady 2.8 midn you   )

let go of throttle, pulse again and I go up to 25MPH.... let go, but throttle sticks at 25 MPH....let go again and sticks at 30 MPH

Just to clarify, if I remove the connection to the analyst, the throttle behaves 100%, never once behaved any way different

regards

[DirtyGinge]

yup, now disconnected due to not wanting to go high speed through a wall 

[Leslie]

If you want speed control the magic controller can handle this in a heart beat.

I used the USB program cable GM canada sent me with my kit and I set forward speed scale accordingly.

From playing just a little with this setting I think it is RPM based to percentages. Percentages of your max speed will work just fine.


Say you go 25mph max, 10% forward speed scale would deliver a speed of 2.5MPH.  If you wanted to limit your speed to 20 MPH then you would set forward speed scale to 80%.

I can make a very simple equasion for you to use on a calculator.

Speed desired = S D (sorry for the edit)
Max speed = M
Percentage of forward speed scale=%

The equasion
D/M*100=%

So in your case to set 20 MPH

20/25*100=80%

Set your forward speed scale to 80%.

Works very well and will still give you full power all the way up the the RPM limit setting.

[Bikemad]

Just to clarify, if I remove the connection to the analyst, the throttle behaves 100%, never once behaved any way different

Sounds like the diode is connected the wrong way around!

Alan

[DirtyGinge]

Hi All

to put it bluntly, I need the wheel to be "legal" for a percentage of my journey, then unleash the beast in the wilderness where im unlikely to get pulled over....

Many thanks , I considered the USB route, and may still be an option, but means carrying a mini laptop around also..

If the diode was the wrong way round, surely I wouldnt be able to read any voltage on it, and the uncrontrollable "limiting" wouldnt exist..

please don't get me wrong, I appreciate all of your suggestions, will try reversing the diode, and ill order up a USB lead

regards

[Bikemad]

If the diode was the wrong way round, surely I wouldnt be able to read any voltage on it, and the uncrontrollable "limiting" wouldnt exist..

The diode should be fitted as shown in the lower part of the following diagram, so that it will allow the throttle voltage to be lowered by the Cycle Analyst, but will not allow any voltage to flow from the Cycle Analyst to the controller to prevent the problem that you have already experienced:



With the diode fitted this way around, there is no way that the Cycle Analyst can cause the motor to run when the throttle is released.

The switch shown in the lower diagram can be used to quickly disconnect the Cycle Analyst from the throttle, allowing either unrestricted maximum speed, or the Cycle Analyst pre-set maximum speed/current, at the flick of  a switch.  This allows a very quick and easy means of changing between Off Road Use and Road Legal Settings.

Alan
 

[Leslie]

The throttle overide works but it can take away from your max power when in limit mode. and to some degree is an honest way to limit both speed and power if you remove the switch.

The CA and GM software works via RPM limitation so if you hit the throttle to full your power will be always full until max speed is achieved.

Those who are looking for a truly legal Ebike would not be hunting around for a legal to illegal bypass switch.  The actual law may be interpreted to read "must not be capable of exceeding speeds of "A""  Not "has a sneaky hidden switch to bypass speed limit laws" LOL jk .  Either it is legal or not, you can not honestly have both.

At least with the software route you're truly legal until you figure out how to work the CA.  

Or

You want an illegal bike that can appear and function as legal.  In this case, one can ride around legal and use the throttle mod to fool any authority that may challenge the legality of an Ebike.  Then one needs no law to restrict the bike, and just a switch and decide to obey the speed limit of your own accord, and pigs do fly too..  And as it should be, we are speed limited via a set of already established road rules, why must they complicate things so much more..

That said and blunt it is.  We understand your honesty and look at me I am over the limit in every way.  

We call it the nanny police state and the bubble wrap generation.  No freedom of choice, just regulations, upon regulations, and a band of merry thieves exploiting there ability to make regulation, code, and statute have high commercial value and a worthy profitable pursuit.  Some people lives depends that we will break the law, so it makes good sense for some individuals to make life so claustrophobic with law to insure that we do break the law.

[Leslie]

And I just picked this up.

 

iterm max    3.79
iterm min   1.00

Interm min should be set 1v below interm max.  The way Im seeing this is that the throttle signal recieves one volt in speed limit mode which 1 v = 0 speed in limit mode or only very slow.

So interm at 2.79 was the figure suggested as per Gary's post.

The higher you have on interm min the throttle will limit less.  The lower you have interm min you will feel the limitation more and the dynamics of the limitation get to wide and the bike starts to stop start instead of limit gentle like.

[Bikemad]

The CA and GM software works via RPM limitation so if you hit the throttle to full your power will be always full until max speed is achieved.

I think it should be possible to set the Cycle Analyst to control maximum current as well as maximum speed, in which case it can be set to comply with the legal requirements regarding maximum continuous power and maximum speed.

Should you decide to fit a switch to remove these power and speed restrictions (for off road use only), your bike would still be considered road legal providing the switch is not used while on public roads.

If a car has an electrically operated flap which flipped over the registration plate at the flick of a switch to keep it clean when using the vehicle off road, this could only be considered as illegal if it was activated to cover the number plate while the vehicle was being used on a public highway. They cannot prosecute simply for having such a device fitted, but they certainly would if they could prove that it was being used illegally.

Alan
 

[Leslie]

Agreed with the CA.  I admit I havent don too much research on the CA as I sort of fine with my bike the way it is.

But I have read somewhere it maybe in an earlier version that you cant have current limitation and speed limitation t the same time, something about the CA being confused attempting to control both at the same time.  I think LVC is different as it doesnt need to use the same throttle limitation code to get the job done.

I could be wrong.  Either way with the GM software alone can handle an Ebike.

But I may disagree that any authority will be convinced by a switch that the rider states he doesnt use in built up areas, in most cases, if you want to argue the case, the court room is the place for one to prove the said rider of ebike exhibit "B"  was not using the switch at the time the defendant was seen riding by official "C"..  

If anything the switch is a device that makes the ebike outright illegal IMO and capable of doing more than the set limit.  Too much grey area to trust this ideal if the authorities are chasing after high powered Ebikes.

LOL I can imagine

Rider says:
Here is my legal ebike officer.  


Officer says
Erm erm what is this switch for. ?

Rider says:
Oh so that so I can be legal on the street and have full power off road.


Officer says
So what speed and how many watts is the bike is the bike capable of with this switch engaged.  Oh about 2000 watts 43kph.

Officer thinks:

This is an illegal ebike capable of doing much more than the laws states should permitted on the road.  When in doubt the fine they still must hand out.



If they pull you over to check your bike, the switch is not going to convince the officer that this makes the bike legal, he will argue the switch makes the bike illegal.


Capable of "A' speed can be interpreted as the absolute maximum a bike can do and any mooting over such interpretations will not be heard in a public street...

[Leslie]

Haa just about everyone that wants the illegal to legal switch states they will hide it somewhere no one can see.


Do the 317537 broken bike trick.

If youre gonna lie to a coppers face go all the way.  

You can use a deadmans switch and switch the thing off, when the officer checks your bike, you can say

"Ohhhh Noeeeees1!!! Holly crap, OMG, its broken down again.  I knew it would happen I was just trying to get home.  OMG my ebike is crap, I think I should just go back to stinking up the place with my car,  Its lucky to reach 10kph and the pedalic is soooo sensitive I can move an inch without it. Know anyone who wants to buy a broken down Electric bike? for $1200..

This is more fun to lie like this.