*resolved* Loud knocking noise coming from Brand New MP - then dies (again)

[Magzy]

It's good to hear you're finally sorted Magzy.

Assuming you've had chance to try it out more, how does the acceleration and power compare with the noisier motor?

Alan
 

The new motor feels about 10% slower on acceleration and slightly slower top end (using same controller /setup)  But far more importantly a lot quieter which was my primary concern now resolved. Pinging noise is about 50% lower and kind of vanishes at >10km/h

To combat the slowness I have a USB cable which I'll have a play with to try and get more torque out of it.

any tips?

[MonkeyMagic]

YAyyyy

See maybe you had a super pie magzy and you threw it away like it was burnt
haha jokes um well if you have the USB cable - you can adjust your regen firstly. Being new it is probably already set at 24v


Really glad your back on the road mate. Now you have to go down the bakery and eat pies on your pie hehe

[Magzy]

After playing about with settings - this made no difference to performance of Pie and is very slow.

Hills I could previously zoom up with old noisy pie are now a significant struggle with new pie. It  will grind to a halt and then stop unless I put some serious pedling into it.

I thought I could amend settings on Pie via USB to get some extra out of it but settings do absolutely nothing.

I am not 100% happy with this Magic Pie - it needs a lot more power.

I bought a turnigy watt meter at the weekend so I can see what it's pulling out of the battery - something isn't quite right with the whole thing.

[Leslie]

So what is Turnigy reporting back Magz?

[GM Canada]

After playing about with settings - this made no difference to performance of Pie and is very slow.

Hills I could previously zoom up with old noisy pie are now a significant struggle with new pie. It  will grind to a halt and then stop unless I put some serious pedling into it.

I thought I could amend settings on Pie via USB to get some extra out of it but settings do absolutely nothing.

I am not 100% happy with this Magic Pie - it needs a lot more power.

I bought a turnigy watt meter at the weekend so I can see what it's pulling out of the battery - something isn't quite right with the whole thing.

What voltage is the pie set at and what voltage is your battery?

Gary

[Magzy]

So what is Turnigy reporting back Magz?

It's not wired up yet - I had a load of other things to do at le weekend.

Pie is definitely slower - I'm thinking that maybe one of the battery connections has come lose slightly and thus, makes the contactable surface smaller which equates to lower amps.

It's definitely the amperage which is suffering (Glad I did all the electronics research to actually know this)

[Magzy]

After playing about with settings - this made no difference to performance of Pie and is very slow.

Hills I could previously zoom up with old noisy pie are now a significant struggle with new pie. It  will grind to a halt and then stop unless I put some serious pedling into it.

I thought I could amend settings on Pie via USB to get some extra out of it but settings do absolutely nothing.

I am not 100% happy with this Magic Pie - it needs a lot more power.

I bought a turnigy watt meter at the weekend so I can see what it's pulling out of the battery - something isn't quite right with the whole thing.

What voltage is the pie set at and what voltage is your battery?

Gary

ok so I downloaded the software from GM's website - (from where the enternal controller is listed on on the main page)
I disconnected the battery and harness.
Then plugged in the USB cable to the controller.
the other end into the laptop. (at this point, the neighbors thought I was building a robot lol)
I got a beep from the software.
I got the parameters from the controller and the software  said the following:
max 50A
continuous 30A
voltage 24V
Regen =100%
max speed thingy =100%

I have a 48v Battery from ping V2.5 (new) , so I changed the voltage to 48v and then saved the config to the controller.
I disconnected, and tested if it actually did save by getting the config again which duly said 48v...

I tested the bike out on the street @48v and the torque/acceleration is the same - I.e. changing the settings gave no change.

My battery is a band new ping 10AH which will go up to 30A Max before cutting out (a feature of ping)

the only thing I can think is that a wire has come lose slightly and has affected the gauge which in turn has affected the max amperage.

I'll have it out again this weekend and will be soldering in all the battery connections with the new Turnigy watt meter and get the *actual* reading.

What should I be expecting Watts wise with a 48v 30A max battery ?

I'm assuming 48v*30a=1440w

However, assuming the external controller will do only 16A which I've seen banded about on this forum (the true/rated figure of what it *should* be is kept secret by GM for some reason) then the Max output I would be expecting is 48v*16a=768w

If my test shows that it's pumping out less than 768w when going up a hill and comes to a stop (like its doing at the moment) then there's something technically wrong (?)

Regards,
Magzy

[GM Canada]

Have you tried running it with the settings at 24 volts. Everyone seems to get more power this way. The only problem is the low voltage cutoff will not protect your batteries. Hopefully your ping battery has its own protection.

Gary

[Leslie]

Yes me an the Monkey was a telling him that.  and I think if I remember correct h said he has and saw no difference.

I would mod it. But I cant be asking members to do this Gary.  Heavy track soldering may look simple and compared to some soldering tequniques it is,.


But there 100 of little very simple things one need to learn when modding a controller.  These do not stand out to the new enthusiasts.

You have to watch your solder gun very carefully and have good control over solder flow.  Look for splatter and have magnifying tools at hand.  The smallest of solder dots can end the controller in a heart beat.

Watch out for SM components as they wuill come off with the touch of aq 40 watt gun.  Yes you need a bigger watt solder iron for the Mod.

That said I thuink the way things are going either the Dual Pie or risk the shunt mod are his only solutions.  I honestly think nearly every GM controller is the same.

[Bikemad]

Hills I could previously zoom up with old noisy pie are now a significant struggle with new pie. It will grind to a halt and then stop unless I put some serious pedling into it.

I honestly think nearly every GM controller is the same.

But don't forget that this particular controller is the exact same one that Magzy was using with the noisy Pie, so it cannot be causing the difference in performance.
Could it be that the new Pie has been wound slightly different to the old noisy one or perhaps it might be down to less powerful magnets?

We will soon find out what power it's actually being used when the Turnigy Wattmeter has been fitted.



Alan
 

[Andrew]

I have to back up Magzy on this . i'm in the exact same boat. my pie dies on very moderate hills and the programming, after trying many variations makes no difference at all. Before I buy a Turnigy Wattmeter how easy are they to plug-in, what needs doing? 

I really want to do a video of my pies performance but the weather is stopping me at present due to black ice all over place.

 I truely believe at present that I would get better all round perforamnce from a 1000w HBS

Andrew

[Magzy]

Before I buy a Turnigy Wattmeter how easy are they to plug-in, what needs doing? 
Andrew

The watt meter has 4 wires coming out of it.
To connect it up, the 2 wires coming out of your battery need to be connected to the 2 Source wires on the meter.
the other 2 wires coming out of the Load end of the watt meter go to the controller.



it's basically a gate between the controller and battery.


The wires that come with the watt meter are only 6.5-7.5 cm long so, you have to run cabling from the battery to the watt meter (presumably on the handlebars) and then back (4 long lengths of cable). so you'd need to buy enough cabling 5-6meters ish from an local electronics /DIY shop/store that is rated to the Max amps you'll be using.

You can either solder it or use anderson clips/ bullet connectors but just make sure they are rated to the max amps you'll be using.

Useful stuff to get is heat shrink wrap, it's like a loose sleeve that slides loosely over your cabling and then you heat it up with a hairdryer or similar implement and it contracts to 2/3rds of it's original size in diameter and makes your 4 wires into 1 manageable one. (the guy in the shop demo'ed it to me and I was impressed - it just makes the whole thing look a lot neater)

[Magzy]

Have you tried running it with the settings at 24 volts. Everyone seems to get more power this way. The only problem is the low voltage cutoff will not protect your batteries. Hopefully your ping battery has its own protection.

Gary

the default was 24v when I first read the config from the controller with the usb and the software.
I simply set it to 48v tested it - which gave same performance.
I then set it back to 24v and retested it and it was the same performance.

i.e. the USB software does nothing to improve performance.

[Magzy]

But don't forget that this particular controller is the exact same one that Magzy was using with the noisy Pie, so it cannot be causing the difference in performance.
Could it be that the new Pie has been wound slightly different to the old noisy one or perhaps it might be down to less powerful magnets?

Correct!
There's only one way to find this out and that's to open them both and studiously compare the windings side by side on the noisy one and the quiet one.

This will also prove or dispel the saying that "all pies are made equal".

yeah, I know that it'll break the warranty and such but in all honesty, if it broke again, then I'd rather put fire ants in my eyes than go through the whole goldenmotor warranty grist mill process again.

Regards.
Magz

[Magzy]

Yes me an the Monkey was a telling him that.  and I think if I remember correct h said he has and saw no difference.

I would mod it. But I cant be asking members to do this Gary.  Heavy track soldering may look simple and compared to some soldering tequniques it is,.


But there 100 of little very simple things one need to learn when modding a controller.  These do not stand out to the new enthusiasts.

You have to watch your solder gun very carefully and have good control over solder flow.  Look for splatter and have magnifying tools at hand.  The smallest of solder dots can end the controller in a heart beat.

Watch out for SM components as they wuill come off with the touch of aq 40 watt gun.  Yes you need a bigger watt solder iron for the Mod.

That said I thuink the way things are going either the Dual Pie or risk the shunt mod are his only solutions.  I honestly think nearly every GM controller is the same.

I am inclined to do this if all else fails. But would shunting more power into the pie make it more noisy? (and be right back to square one)

In any case, modding looks like my only hope which is sad because I can't use this motor the way it is because I still have to work up a sweat to get to work - (which completely defeats the original idea for getting this kit in the first place).

If I have to get a shower at work when using this kit then I may as well as may just use a normal bike.