Changing internal controller to an external?

[grecomaskara]

Thank you all  
I ordered some hall sensors and I am waiting them now.
I hope that the motor is O.K. and I have not damage in it.
I have now new controller , I will change the sensors, new harness ...
The bad thing of all this situation is a lot of work and some extra money.
The good one is that now I have learned a lot of that motors.
And I can see that it is a very strong and good motor but GM are trying the best to believe all
of us that it is not with there warranty policy...
And if I manage to fix it I shall be very proud for myself
and to my forum friends leslie, Bikemad, etc.

[MonkeyMagic]

Hey guys

The part about removing the motor stator, is that just necessary for the spoked wheels?

When I removed the casing etc. from my cast wheel I did not need to remove anything from the inside to run the cables (replacement Magic Pie internal cables) I just fed the wires the bare ends through the wheel from the outside in.

So now that I'm wanting to get a sensorless controller for this 16" wheel I have sitting here, if I can see the phase wires inside and can run new ones and secure them correctly then I won't need to remove the stator true?

This part is puzzling me a bit

Also, because this wheel has been through 2 controllers is there any way I can test this thing thoroughly before I go and buy a controller for it? That's my biggest question


Cheers

[grecomaskara]

finally I changed the bad sensor.
I twisted the throttle , tha motor do not turn.I moved a little the wheel and then started to spin for only 2 or 3 seconds,
and then the current from the controller stops...
I tried a lot of times and I had the same results.
The battery was full (42v). I started to test the thin wires coming from the motor.
But there was already 4.7 v and to the three sensors, even I was moving by hand the wheel...
I started to make some tests: I connected the green sensor wire but no movment.
Then the yellow one, no movement. But when I connected the blue one (with the new sensor) tha motor started
to spin for that 2 seconds and some noise and vibration.
I see that the other sensors are bad and I think that I should change all 3 sensors.
I am very sad because I did a good job on changing that sensor.
Is it possible that and the other sensors are bad or is there a motor problem that I can not fix on tha magnets?
And I saw that there was a vibration from the motor with extra noise...
HELP

[Bikemad]

finally I changed the bad sensor.
I see that the other sensors are bad and I think that I should change all 3 sensors.
I am very sad because I did a good job on changing that sensor.
Is it possible that and the other sensors are bad or is there a motor problem that I can not fix on tha magnets?

Well I connected the wires to voltometer as you adviced me, and the results are:

from the wheel thin wires
yellow wire........ 4.22
green wire.........4.22
blue wire........not stable numbers the voltometer is crazy.

The volts are supposed to vary between high and low as the magnets pass by the hall sensor.

If the yellow and green sensor voltages did not vary, it looks like they will be faulty, not the blue sensor that you have changed.

I suggest you check the sensors again to confirm whether they are working correctly or not.
If the voltage on the sensor output lead remains steady as the wheel is slowly turned, then the sensor is faulty.

Check out this video demonstrating how to test the hall sensors.

Alan
 

[Leslie]

finally I changed the bad sensor.
I see that the other sensors are bad and I think that I should change all 3 sensors.
I am very sad because I did a good job on changing that sensor.
Is it possible that and the other sensors are bad or is there a motor problem that I can not fix on tha magnets?

Well I connected the wires to voltometer as you adviced me, and the results are:

from the wheel thin wires
yellow wire........ 4.22
green wire.........4.22
blue wire........not stable numbers the voltometer is crazy.

The volts are supposed to vary between high and low as the magnets pass by the hall sensor.

If the yellow and green sensor voltages did not vary, it looks like they will be faulty, not the blue sensor that you have changed.

I suggest you check the sensors again to confirm whether they are working correctly or not.
If the voltage on the sensor output lead remains steady as the wheel is slowly turned, then the sensor is faulty.

Check out this video demonstrating how to test the hall sensors.

Alan
 

Yes the sesnors that don't change are stuck.  Meaning they ar4e the sensors that are failing.  9 times out of 10 it's a latched sensor failing to release, he may of replaced the only good hall sensor.

But then shouldn't the controller go into sensorless mode if any hall fails?.

grecomaskara

If you switch the power on and the wheel doesn't free wheel or has much resistance you have blown the the fet stage in the controller.

[Bikemad]

But then shouldn't the controller go into sensorless mode if the hall fails?.

Leslie, Grecomaskara's not using a Magic Controller, and I'm pretty sure the C3640-NC Infineon controllers don't have a sensorless mode.

Alan
 

[Leslie]

grecomaskara

Your motor is OK you have to do a lot more than melt a few hall sensors and controllers to damage the motor, at least this part of the kit is very strong.

Try carrying 250 kg weight ( total weight) on a big hill or hook up your pack to the phase wires for a short while thhen you may smell some smoke.  The nose knows.

Any toxic smells that may come from the motor is a very bad sign.

If you have all your wires from the motor and halls correct then it just a matter of getting this configuration right and try get it right the first time.  If you have the phase~halls wires on the wrong way this can damage the controller if you try too hard to make it work like this.

One thing to keep in mind, is when you test the motor after you have hooked it up to controller is that the motor should respond to the very slight turn of the throttle, smooth like silk, if you have to do more than the smallest of twists and you get jerking of funny sounds, do not test until you reconfigure or repair what is not working.

[grecomaskara]

Well the spesifications of honeywell ss41 sensor  have a warning about that sensors.
The first is the voltage must be from 4.8 v to 30v . When the controller of Magic pie had a fets failure, the current
must passed from the sensors and there was the first damage.
Then I changed the problematic <<blue signal wire hall sensor>> ,with a new one.
But they are very sencitive... The soldering heat must be below 260 celsius degrees and ONLY FOR 3 seconds.
I cooked the blue sensor at sure as the soldering gun was very hot and I touched the sensor for 5-6 seconds.
Then I connected the wires at the same colores and there was no movement, and started IN FULL THROTLE to
make tests.Another mistake now, I have and the three sensors well cooked.
But I am not sad any more as the motor seems to be o.k. (it spins very fast when I gave a little movment by my hand but not normally) and the voltometer gave me 4.9v from the thin wires B G Y coming from the controller
and the red one too.
I think that the controller is o.k. and must have a protection relay and that cuts off the high current, so it stops sfter 2-3 seconds.Tell me if I am right please.
  

[grecomaskara]

The problem is fixed  
I changed again the hall sensors and I was very carefull this time with the solder gun.
The colors of the phases was the same with controllers colors, so when I twist a little the throtlle the wheel started running slowly.
Then I ride the bike for about 10 km and I did every test to the motor.
Now the motor is more powerfull and you can feel the differense from the sound.
If I twist the trotttle without me on the bike, the wheel starts to spin....
So the internal controller maybe is smoother than the infineon one, but is less powerfull and very sensitive.
If anyone want to buy that motor believe me it is very strong motor, buy a good external controller, spend a few hours to
connect them all, and you must have the best electric bike of the market.
Thank you all for your help.

[Bikemad]

The problem is fixed 

   

It's good to hear you've finally been able to sort the hall sensors, and from your description, it sounds like it was definitely worth the extra work required to fit the external controller as well!
Now you can start using your Pie instead of working on it.

Alan