Much More Powerful Pie Now!!!

[e-lmer]

As an aside, the high current relays are rated for breaking
current, not continuous current.

There are many automotive relays that can carry a high
current, but cannot interrupt it without arcing and destroying
the relay.  Since we are interested in turning the battery off
when not in use, you could use something like this:

 http://documents.tycoelectronics.com/commerce/DocumentDelivery/DDEController?Action=srchrtrv&DocNm=V23130-X0000-A001&DocType=DS&DocLang=EN

(you would need to get 12V to turn on the relay tho.)

[Leslie]

As an aside, the high current relays are rated for breaking
current, not continuous current.

There are many automotive relays that can carry a high
current, but cannot interrupt it without arcing and destroying
the relay.  Since we are interested in turning the battery off
when not in use, you could use something like this:

 http://documents.tycoelectronics.com/commerce/DocumentDelivery/DDEController?Action=srchrtrv&DocNm=V23130-X0000-A001&DocType=DS&DocLang=EN

(you would need to get 12V to turn on the relay tho.)

Ohhhh ahhhh thats a interesting perspective on the subject.  Something designed to break during any high load.

I hope my FRA4 can break the continuous current, it is designed to do aircons and high powered stuff at high voltages hey .  Can handle 7500 watts peak.  Its sure to be enough.

Like that AC switch I used got stuck in very shortish a short circuit.  I could at least manipulate the rocker (forced) so it switched back off and still used it for 6mths afterward.  You don't have that ability with relays, they get stuck you chuck them.  If you can get them unstuck you should still chuck them.  Like I should of got rid my AC switch.

The AC switch is an easy noobe solution that was adequate for me for a while.  Well we all start somewhere.  

[Leslie]

I wonder if one could make an arc breaker bypass.    Stay tuned for more whack circuits.   

[o00scorpion00o]

Hi Guys,

I got the magic controller and connected it up. Hooked it up to laptop and changed the voltage to 48v. 30 amp continuous 50 max.

Went for a spin, 15 amps on take off, and 20 MAX up hill? WTF???

On my old motor all I needed was 20 amps because that's all the motor and battery could take, and I don't know if it could supply more. I'm seriously, unbelievably mad with GM. I have tested and tested wiring etc, throttle, to make sure everything was okay. It was working perfect with the old silver non cruise, non regen controller, (22amps continuous, 30 max) I can't afford now to spend any more on ebike kit, that's it for me now, until I save up again.

Tom never replied to me when I asked him for the pie wiring harness and internal controller (of course I don't need or want that now) but it just goes to show if you have a problem with GM products, they don't care. And I find that totally unacceptable. I bet if I ask to return the controller for a refund, that they will completely ignore me.

The only think I can think of now is opening up the controller and doing some sort of shunt mod, and risk killing the controller.

[Sundsvall]

Went for a spin, 15 amps on take off, and 20 MAX up hill? WTF???

Am I supposed to get worried now?

There would be much easier to do a good looking installation with the internal controller. Despite that I ordered the MP with the external controller just to get more power out of it.

Can I trust the equipment or am I forced to buy a Cycle Analyst just to be sure I got what I ordered?

Peter

[o00scorpion00o]

Went for a spin, 15 amps on take off, and 20 MAX up hill? WTF???

Am I supposed to get worried now?

There would be much easier to do a good looking installation with the internal controller. Despite that I ordered the MP with the external controller just to get more power out of it.

Can I trust the equipment or am I forced to buy a Cycle Analyst just to be sure I got what I ordered?

Peter

Hi Peter,

Yes I would get a cycle analyst. I did a shunt mod as per leslie's recommendation, using the resister wire. With the usb cable, I then turned the continuous amps down to 10 and the max down to 20 and that gives me 35 amps max on acceleration, and that's just enough. Once the pie is up to speed the power drops off to around 7-800 watts on the level, which helps increase range.

I just soldered a new shunt directly across the existing one, and beefed up the solder on the tracks, as there was not a lot there to begin with. I never remember to take pics! Just remember to place the controller in a place that it will get enough air circulation.


I am so disappointed with Golden Motor, I really can't believe they would advertise their controllers as 30 amps continuous and 50 max, it's such a bad way to treat customers willing to buy their products. And another thing, I have seen them put the controller in one of those water resistant black boxes, I can imagine the controller would roast. They should have a cutout in the box so the heatsink will get air! I wish they would use the old style case for their controllers again as they were much easier to mount!

I have no Idea peter what to tell you other than hook it all up, get a cycle analyst and go from there.
 

[Sundsvall]

Hi Mark

I’m not sure I want to spend an additional $150 on something that tells me there’s a problem I can’t do anything to correct. I haven’t found a good translation for the “shunt” so I’m not really sure what that means.

All my orders from different places such as the rim, the bike and a few other things have arrived. I’ll just have to wait for all equipment to arrive before I make any decisions.

Peter

[o00scorpion00o]

Hi Mark

I’m not sure I want to spend an additional $150 on something that tells me there’s a problem I can’t do anything to correct. I haven’t found a good translation for the “shunt” so I’m not really sure what that means.

All my orders from different places such as the rim, the bike and a few other things have arrived. I’ll just have to wait for all equipment to arrive before I make any decisions.

Peter

Hi Peter,

The shunt is of a specific resistance,(looks like a wire link) and is measured to allow a certain amount of current, by adding solder to it or adding a new one, you change the resistance, which allows more current to pass. Now I'm by no means an expert, so one of the other guys, Alan or Leslie will be better able to explain.

I know what you mean by not wanting to spend more on a cycle analyst, but in my opinion it's money well spent, It shows you exactly the amount of amps taken from your battery, then you know the amount left. It will show you speed distance, and of course your current amps consumption.

I know my old internal controller is different inside. There was 2 shunts, now only 1. I don't know if my old one could supply 30+ amps as I only had it set for 20 max, that's all my motor and battery could take. I do find it very sneaky that Golden Motor would sell their controller that will only supply just over half the rated current, it is not a way to improve their reputation. In my opinion it will only harm it. Now maybe the loyal GM customers will criticise me for moaning all the time, but I'm a customer and I have a right to complain when I have damn good reason and I will not tolerate anyone who says otherwise! Also their lack of customer service and response I can only describe as a total disgrace!

Anyway Peter I hope it works out for you, defiantly get a cycle analyst. I'm dying to know how your set up works . I know that with the right amount of current this motor is amazing!

Mark
 

[Leslie]

Went for a spin, 15 amps on take off, and 20 MAX up hill? WTF???

Am I supposed to get worried now?

There would be much easier to do a good looking installation with the internal controller. Despite that I ordered the MP with the external controller just to get more power out of it.

Can I trust the equipment or am I forced to buy a Cycle Analyst just to be sure I got what I ordered?

Peter

Hi Peter

No don't get worried.

Do you like the way your bike performs with its current settings?

If you like the MP the way it is served then please just leave it as it is..  You may have problems.

The shunt is a a current limiter that looks like a single or more solid piece/s of wire in the controller, usually rated now so the user makes no mistakes in the software.

The more advanced user who dares takes or give advice of these threads and chooses to modify their controller in such ways will know how to properly bypass it to provide more current to the controller and motor like Scorpion has.

I chose to limit current shunt as the heavy loads I can haul do cause concern with motor heat. Others that want good response and do not carry such big load may want to improve their bikes performance as their continuos current draw last for shorter periods and this can translate to great acceleration.

When I go up a hill with a heavy load I do not mind my bike slowing down as I know through a shunt my motor will not overheat.  

It just so happened that Scorpions first MP controller seemed a little anemic.  And now his second controller has a 20 amp shunt in it.

 


Scorpion I am relieved you are up and running.  Please take the time to enjoy the new found power in you GM motor.



The specs are a little off from advertised I will admit but not uncommon amongst a few versions of GM controllers  My old GM controllers are all 20 amp shunted..

Strange you have to set the continuous to 10 amps.  How many shunts you put across there scorpion?.

Did you start off low with the software and increase to obtain that value?

[o00scorpion00o]

Went for a spin, 15 amps on take off, and 20 MAX up hill? WTF???

Am I supposed to get worried now?

There would be much easier to do a good looking installation with the internal controller. Despite that I ordered the MP with the external controller just to get more power out of it.

Can I trust the equipment or am I forced to buy a Cycle Analyst just to be sure I got what I ordered?

Peter

No don't get worried.

Do you like the way your bike performs with its current settings?

If you like the MP the way it is served then please just leave it as it is..  You may have problems.


The shunt is usually put in there so the user makes no mistakes in the software.  It just so happened that Scorpions first MP controller seemed a little anemic.  And now his second controller has a 20 amp shunt in it.

The specs are a little off from advertised I will admit but not uncommon amongst a few versions of GM controllers  My old GM controllers are all 20 amp shunted..

Strange you have to set the continuous to 10 amps.  How many shunts you put across there scorpion?.

Did you start low with the software and increase to obtain that value.

Hi Leslie.

I only put in one this time. Yes I started low and worked my way up a little each time.

Yes peter Leslie is right if you are happy leave it alone.

10 amps makes a hell of a difference, and is not as advertised. If GM want to sell their magic controller as a 20 amp controller, fine by me. Then sell it as a 20 amp! These controllers are calculated to give a very precise current, so they know well they are only 20 amps.

I wonder if I had to have the cable with the internal controller, would It still be working?

[Leslie]

Went for a spin, 15 amps on take off, and 20 MAX up hill? WTF???

Am I supposed to get worried now?

There would be much easier to do a good looking installation with the internal controller. Despite that I ordered the MP with the external controller just to get more power out of it.

Can I trust the equipment or am I forced to buy a Cycle Analyst just to be sure I got what I ordered?

Peter

No don't get worried.

Do you like the way your bike performs with its current settings?

If you like the MP the way it is served then please just leave it as it is..  You may have problems.


The shunt is usually put in there so the user makes no mistakes in the software.  It just so happened that Scorpions first MP controller seemed a little anemic.  And now his second controller has a 20 amp shunt in it.

The specs are a little off from advertised I will admit but not uncommon amongst a few versions of GM controllers  My old GM controllers are all 20 amp shunted..

Strange you have to set the continuous to 10 amps.  How many shunts you put across there scorpion?.

Did you start low with the software and increase to obtain that value.

Hi Leslie.

I only put in one this time. Yes I started low and worked my way up a little each time.

Yes peter Leslie is right if you are happy leave it alone.

10 amps makes a hell of a difference, and is not as advertised. If GM want to sell their magic controller as a 20 amp controller, fine by me. Then sell it as a 20 amp! These controllers are calculated to give a very precise current, so they know well they are only 20 amps.

I wonder if I had to have the cable with the internal controller, would It still be working?

I think to some degree GM want to keep the controllers to the motor rated spec and thats 1000 watts.  If users want to exceed that limitation then they have to void warranty by modding the controller.  Thats the mod side of the ebike culture I think GM are trying to allow with these mod threads.

We cant have people plugging 50v X 50 amps @ 2500 watts into their Pies and then say, "HEY" it said 50 amps on the site" and moaning a day latter why is my motor smell like bio hazard toxic smokin waste without at least one void warranty mod put in the way to slow people down and get to know what to do first.

You kniow there is a little math involved Scorpion before people should just go  nuts setting the software.  The controller could prolly do a little bit more than 50 amps you know .

The shunt is a red light.  These forums mod threads are the green light.  Shhh don't tell every one just yet!  

  

[Leslie]

I guess what I am trying to communicate to the people who want to exceed the motors 1000 watt rating by doing this mod.  Is that there is a good learning curb to be undertaken before you move ahead.

The motor is Golden, which is what cost the most to repair or replace, the controllers are cheaper, granted that the internal controllers are harder to mod.

The damage done to a motor set to 2500 watts motor is irreparable and the worst thing that could happen to a new customers kit.  Being limited to 20 amps internally will be a good thing if all you need to do is solder a little wire across a PCB to undo.  

It may not be advertised exactly as it appears on the net but we here know there is a little more to modding a 50vX20 amps = 1000 watt "kit" than playing with the software.

[Sundsvall]

I don’t have all the things for my project yet. As soon as the MP comes I’m going to replace the rim. I was hoping that the spokes could be reused, but after I have measured the new rim I doubt that the ERD diameter is close to the MP’s. Therefore I’m going to order new spokes when I can measure their length. There’s a lot of work to be done before I can enjoy a ride, hopefully before the cold and rainy autumn or even worse, the winter.

I don’t mind either if the bike is slowing down uphill, but how can I let go of the thought that it could have a better acceleration let’s say from 25A?

On the other hand I have no guaranties that the tire “or myself” can take more power than what I get from 20A. I just have to wait and see.

I haven’t assembled anything yet, still it’s a big hole in my wallet. This project is much more expensive than my first plan.

Peter

[Sundsvall]

Thank you Leslie for the explanation of the shunt. I thought the shunt was something Mark was putting in, instead it was something he bypassed.

Peter

[Leslie]

Thank you Leslie for the explanation of the shunt. I thought the shunt was something Mark was putting in, instead it was something he bypassed.

Peter

Both.  He put in a bypass.  Another term for shunt. LOL


Reading scorpions posts they are full of emotion excitement and interesting statistics.  



To Mark.

Scorpion you should not be so fast to judge GM.  With this controller anyway.

Again!

Thank you for sharing.

Maybe judge yourself.  I actually think you're doing a very great job again,  You have successfully modded the controller and as it seems purely using the software to do so.

Please don't push it. And you have set some standards here by moving up the current from low to high..

The data you're proving with the CA is incredible.  Answers so much but so many more questions arise.  Stay on track.

 It may seem my multimeter was out when I tested those resistor leads.  Unless the software current limitation is out or the CA is not correct, the shunt and mod you have done is flooding the area with nice thick flow of AMPS.

If this is the case kudos, even though your mod maybe again too robust the software is keeping the current flow in check.  The Shunt is proving very low resistances and you will gain efficiency, this looks good on the flats when current isnt being restricted to the input filter caps by the shunts.


The lower load high RPM times will have higher energy in the shunted side caps as the max I is higher than usual. meaning the fet side of the shunt voltage inst being as harshly effected.

Things to watch for is potholes could rattle your battery cells with current spikes.  Hopefully the GM BMS can filter all that road noise out.