New Bike Pic

[diverdon]

     This is a Bike I had years ago and liked except in my mind I Really needed a suspension bike .. .. This one I had would not accept a Seat post shock absorber because of the size of the seat post . They did'nt make them in this size..

       I was making too much money at the time too so I bought a new bike with the seat suspension and front forks..This new bike was OK but it just felt like I was riding too close to the handlebars no matter what I did to adjust for it .. Maybe it was just the "Frame Geometery?" or the size of the bike was to small ..

    Anyhow I gave the "Old" GT Bike that I had used so long to a friend of mine who left in his back yard where it weathered some . I have allways kept my bikes inside climate controled. So I finally gave up on the bike which I didn't really like that much and got the GT back . My friend insisted I take it back as he had another bike he uses and this one just sat outside ..

     Well long story short... ?? Too Late for that .. Here it is in the rebuild mode .. Totally stripped down rust removed , repainted with duplicolor metalflake paint . Replaced bottom bracket bearings and steering head bearings .. This time I have split the 4 batteries between the front and back of the bike .. Test rode it this eve and Love the feel of this old bike .. I just need to finish wiring the Pie Motor back up and I'm done

    Sorry for the long story but I'm just so happy and proud of this first ever rebuild Ihave Done..Thanks for looking ... Don J.  

[Leslie]

That is a nice looking frame you have their.

Lotsa room in the frame triangle for bigg Li batts hey.

 How do you feel with the bumbs without shockies?
You can get a suspension seat pole but you would have to raise your seat 4" or more.

I tie my SLA's to my cross frame bar with bike inner tubes.  It's very hard to do and make work well but at least the bike balances well with no wobbles and I have my back rack empty and my front has no weight problems.


Another thing is when the batteries are in the centre they receive much less shock from either wheel.  Its like if you sit over the wheel on a bus it gets very bumpy, if you sit at the back you can be projected from the seat, if you sit in the middle of the bus, its very comfy and the bumps are more of a rock forward and back.


There are a million reasons why I put my heavy packs on the top bar and only about one reason why I shouldnt.

AND HERE IT IS, LOL.

Its hard to stand the bike up.

Ummm that is a small problem compared to every other problem I had trying to strap 27kgs of lead to a MTB.  It all makes sense to me to even place a lighter lithium  pack on the cross bar as the bumps are less and I have the back rack to put other things on.  The lighter pack will let you stand the bike up too.

[diverdon]

Hello 
      Thanks for looking and the reply .. Put a lot of work into this thing .. It was "crusty" when I started. The frame wasn't very rusty but I sanded it smoothe and removed all of the GT bike Labels ..

    Day off today and I have been trying to finish the wiring .. Did some wire harness work . Getting it attached and trying to consolidate it as there is several feet extra but I don't want to cut it.. Anyhow when I got done with some of my fancy work I tried the motor .. NO GO ... Found that 2 of the Deans connectors I was using to hook up the Watts up meter were'nt allowing juice to flow so I took them out and hard wired the watts up meter in ..

    I think I have seen pics of your SLA's  attached to your bike but I'd like to see them again . I'm not as brave as you.. Have though attached 2 batterys to a rack I had laying around and put them on over the front wheel at the axel centerline. Seems to work well..

   I'd like to do the seat shock post idea you have but my seat needs to be all of the way down for me to reach the petals .. This is the main reason for the answer to your post for me ... I wish there was a way to do it . I'm not any unusual size. The frame is just made in such a way so it won't work .

   I really like the layout of this bike fit for me other than that thou.. This is why I'd like to try larger "wider" tires .Just run the pressure a little lower to create a shock.OK "Talk" to you later thanks again for the help .. Don J.                                                         

[Leslie]

    I think I have seen pics of your SLA's  attached to your bike but I'd like to see them again . I'm not as brave as you.. Have though attached 2 batterys to a rack I had laying around and put them on over the front wheel at the axel centerline. Seems to work well..

                                                          

Sorry but no go on seeing the 27kg on my bike.  I only have a small sla pack on my temp bike ATM.

Here is an old pic.  Im looking for the one where I get up onto the batts jump to show how strong the jobs is.




It doesnt have to look like all black ugly rubber either, you can make it look good.  Well sort of good.



I lay the bike down and set the batteris into place using anything to prop them up close to where I want it.

Then I use a few bundgy cordes to set them in place.

I get 24" BMX tubes and strap them around the packs one at a time and pull them tight around the packs and frame to all hell and join the tube ends together with 3 "black" plastic ties per strap.

I wrapped insulation tape around my fingers to protect them from hurting too much.

I stand the bike up and when I feel the pack is solid enough but still moves a little and remove the bungy cords leaving the inner tubes fixed.

I set the packs prefect in position then add lots more tubes until the packs do not budge at all.

Consider padding and stuff and use your imagination as to how to make it solid and looking good.

[Leslie]

This was 36v and my batts weigh in at almost 7kg each.  I latter moved to 48 volts and managed to sqeeze tow SLAs just in between the pedals with 10mm clearance on a different frame..









I used black ties to join the inner tubes toggethr at the bottom of the pack so the top was flat and smooth, they do not need to be thick either, and some I just tied double knot but that was ugly. The black ties are much stronger than the white ones and you just need to put the tube ends through the ties and tighten the ties a little and pull the straps tight through them.  Then pull the ties tight.


The above I got all these old car tires and cut straps out of them too.

The big rubber hood was cut from a tractor tire I pulled out of a tire shop bin.  




I must of jumped 5 times on these batts and they would not move.  The straps allways out lasted the SLAs by a long shot.  And when I had an accident, I had no padding around the batts that day, I put a hole in one of the SLAS and acid leaked all over the rubbber. I still got home that day because the inner tubes are acid resistant.  Nice hey.

With the soft padding the top pack and cross bar this made and great side saddle seat for a passenger.

With my new lithium pack I am going to use something a little fancier as I will not need to change the batts so much so there is a point of the non perminancy of the inner tubes.

I could replace a batt by pulling one out and slipping another in its place.

[diverdon]

 Wow, Thanks for the pics . you have really showed me a lot about about mounting batteries . I wish I'd have seen this first . Looks a lot easier than what I did . How many amp hours (whatsize) are the biggest ones you did that way ?? How do you charge them ? I see an electric plug running to your frame.. Is there a charger underneath there? I just use a 12 volt charger and charge 1 battery at a time . Pain in the a--.
  Can't get over you standing on the batteries that are held on with tire tubes .. How do those batteries take the bumps ? Are they tight to the frame? You have 1Battery laying on it's side under the seat . I heard that was OK, did it work ok for you long term .. No leakage ?
     It looks like a 26 inch bike there . A lot of people use them they look like they have more choices in parts . More models of wider tires for 1 thing .. I have a GT 26 inch bike maybe I should think about making into a electric Bike .. It's the Timberline Model which I had sort of converted to a Hybrid . Wider Bars etc . But I still like the 700c size bike better as a "Cruiser". Do you have any thoughts about the 2 different sizes?? Also I see you have the older(901?) style motor there can you tell me what some of the differences are? Thanks again for posting the pics . Gives me a lot to think about . Don J...   

[diverdon]

    Trying to post a Pic of the GT Bike I could convert to a motorized model .. Is there a lot of difference between the Magic Pie and the (901?) model motor kits ..

     I hope this pic transfers it is a "stock" pic my bike has wider bars a Bigger Seat . Different tires .. Etc?

[e-lmer]

DiverDon:

While I can't tell much about the rear end from the pictures
the front fork is definitely aluminum.

Aluminum forks cannot handle the torque of a motorized
front wheel. (I have pics to prove it.)

If you plan to put a rear electric motor on, you need to make
sure that the drop-outs are not aluminum, and you probably want
to attach a torque plate to the axle.

You probably want to go with the GM Rack mount battery on that
bike, since the rear suspension requires a seat-post mounted
rack.  It doesn't look like there is room in the frame for internally
mounted cells.

With all that weight on the rear, I might consider reversing the gooseneck
on the seat and handlebars to move my center of gravity forward.
Just a thought.  YMMV.

[diverdon]

DiverDon:

While I can't tell much about the rear end from the pictures
the front fork is definitely aluminum.

Aluminum forks cannot handle the torque of a motorized
front wheel. (I have pics to prove it.)

If you plan to put a rear electric motor on, you need to make
sure that the drop-outs are not aluminum, and you probably want
to attach a torque plate to the axle.

You probably want to go with the GM Rack mount battery on that
bike, since the rear suspension requires a seat-post mounted
rack.  It doesn't look like there is room in the frame for internally
mounted cells.

With all that weight on the rear, I might consider reversing the gooseneck
on the seat and handlebars to move my center of gravity forward.
Just a thought.  YMMV.

     

Thanks Elmer , Yes I have allways thought the rear motor is the way to go .. Thanks for the idea about the reversing the seat and bars too ..If I was to do this it would be wayyy in the future .. I will try to get a pic of the actual bike I have as it looks a lot different than the stock photo . Don J.

[Leslie]

Id have no problem mounting 4 of my 24ah monsters around against that top and bottom bar with enough room between my legs to pedal.  My second frame was no unlike his.  

Two towards the front around both the top bar and one or two SLA's to hang behind in between the pedals depending on whether its 36v or 48v..

It was hard to centre my two SLA's between the the peadals as I only had about 5mm clearance after the rubber and all was strapped on.  But I did it and rode for 6mths.  I could of made that config more solid.  If I dropped the bike or something Id have to shift the batteries back into place.  But never a big problem.  I got lazy and with my last SLA install and didnt bother making 100% solid like you see in my pics above.

My pics above I would gamble that no battery box could with stand the shock the lead would place on its fixtures.  And jumpin on it like I was on my SLA in that pic.  Good luck  


Well it worked until my SLAs were sagging.  I prolly gots about 800 half cycles from my EV series SLAs.  7 mths.
 
I don't think Diverdon has a GM pack as he could only afford cheap SLAs after his purchase.

[diverdon]

   Hi Leslie ,
               Thanks for the post . Never thought about those other benifits from the Tire tube mounts . But it makes sense that it would make a good shock absorbing mount Being Rubber encased and tight.. And.... WOW...really ? 24 AH batteries those are huge .. How far did you ride on adverage on those?? Maybe 100 miles from a charge ?? I have the 12 AH batts ..4 of them for 48 volts and I have rode 20 miles at slower 8-12 mph speeds and came back with lots of juice left 10-11 volts .Thanks for the good tips on mounting batteries .. I just finished my setup so I'm gonna go with it for now ..

       I just stumbled on some info about using Turnigy Lipo batteries to make Battery packs ...gonna look into that , seems like I can "Build" one for not so much $$$ as the others but that's for another post in another section ...

                 Thanks so so much again for the help and the return message , Don J.

[Bikemad]

I have rode 20 miles at slower 8-12 mph speeds and came back with lots of juice left 10-11 volts .

Don, running a 12V SLA battery below 10.5 volts (1.75V per cell) is not recommended, if you run them any lower than this your batteries will suffer. When lead-acid batteries are overdischarged to an excessively low level, permanent damage can result.

The lead-acid battery should not be discharged beyond 1.75V per cell, nor should it be stored in a discharged state. The cells of a discharged lead-acid sulfate, a condition that renders the battery useless if left in that state for a few days. Always keep the open terminal voltage at 2.10V and higher.

So if you want your 48V pack to enjoy a relatively long and trouble-free life, don't allow its voltage to fall below 42V and charge it up as soon as possible after each use.

Alan

P.S. If you're only using it for slower speeds of 8-12 mph it might be better to run the batteries as two pairs connected in parallel giving you 24V 24Ah (and much stronger regen).
 

[Leslie]

   Hi Leslie ,
               Thanks for the post . Never thought about those other benifits from the Tire tube mounts . But it makes sense that it would make a good shock absorbing mount Being Rubber encased and tight.. And.... WOW...really ? 24 AH batteries those are huge .. How far did you ride on adverage on those?? Maybe 100 miles from a charge ?? I have the 12 AH batts ..4 of them for 48 volts and I have rode 20 miles at slower 8-12 mph speeds and came back with lots of juice left 10-11 volts .Thanks for the good tips on mounting batteries .. I just finished my setup so I'm gonna go with it for now ..

       I just stumbled on some info about using Turnigy Lipo batteries to make Battery packs ...gonna look into that , seems like I can "Build" one for not so much $$$ as the others but that's for another post in another section ...

                 Thanks so so much again for the help and the return message , Don J.

I have no idea what distance they could do when they were new.  They weighed so much I never wanted to find out and have to pedal the beast home.  I had to do it once and it near gave me an anurism on my climb up home.

I could do around 32kms and come home and test the voltage 10 seconds after I switch her off and I would read around 12.65v.  So I think I could push 50kms on a new pack.

The batts I used were designed for short deep discharges and not designed for standby or long low current discharges.  Ritar 24ah  EV series were the better SLA battery for $105AU each these were. They were rated at 300 cycles at 100% DOD.  I never usually went under 50% DOD.

They were tollerant to overcharging and over discharging at times if they went out of balance..  I installed zener shunt BMS regulators over the terminals to make balancing perfect within .05v.   And man when properly balanced the bike used to jump out of the box and go go go.. These could output well over 250 amps peak which never was seen and never will, but I had no problem running a GM HBS hub for 6mths.  If I was only to ride it 3 days a week or so they would of lasted me a year or two.  But It wasnt unusual for me to do three trips into town and home a day.

I think both of my GM hubs had seen over 30,000 km's of road tar travell under the tires them using only two sets of these SLA's these batteries.

My system could cart 100s of KGs with these batts and with a modded 3.5 amp charger I could do over 100kms a day with two full charges in between three 33km trips..

Remember I live in sugar cane growing country and it's pretty flat on my rides most of the way. So I really didnt have too much hills to lug those monsters up.

Float charging them for a day or so would repair any runt cells if I saw any of the batts volts comming in shorter than the others.

The weight was managable but not recommended.  They weigh 6.8kg each, some what heavier than any of the other SLA of the same dimentions.

I could purchase one at a time when I thought my previous pack was dying.  More expensive than lithium but was easier to afford when purchased like this..  

All my old batts not good enough to power the HBS are either recycled or good enough to be used in parallel a solar system for lights in the home.

 

[diverdon]

   OK Leslie .. How about this 4 lipos
   Spec.
Capacity: 5000mAh
Voltage: 6S1P / 6 Cell / 22.2v
Discharge: 20C Constant / 30C Burst
Weight: 754g (including wire, plug & shrink wrap)
Dimensions: 145x52x50mm
Balance Plug: JST-XH
Discharge Plug: 4mm Bullet-Connector

     I can use these to get  44.4 volts and 10 amp hours .. for a total of $200 and the weight .. Total of 3016 grams or 6.7 lbs .. How does that sound .. I have bought a lot of things from Hobby City for the RC Airplane hobby I have and these Turnigy Batteries have been good for me ..
      So what's your opinion . I have watched your posts and really respect your opinion .. I won't be getting these right away .. Not Made of $$$ here but t's good to look into .. Thanks Again Don J.

[Leslie]

No.

The pack can only pass  44v 5ah through 6*2S @1p

You will need to parallel 2 and series 2 of those packs to get 44v @ 10ah.

You can pick up some individual 10ah lifepo4 headway cells @3.2v nominal which are very good for ebikes but would need a bms too.

You can purchase them at two at a time until you get 14 cells in series will make a very good 36v nominal at 44.8v and discharge to 29.4v pack and track down a BMS or make your own.

This is where you will get your hands really dirty in ebike electronics if you do decide to build your own.