Any tips before I 'overbake' the pie?

[martin]

Hello all...

I have decided to do a little work to my MP (unless anyone here says it can't be done). I am thinking about buying a 18 FET 96-132V 65A (from Edwards Lyen - found him in Endless Sphere forum) and adding another 48v 12ah to my existing one.

I am throwing it out there for anyone who can see any massive obstacles in having a go at this? I'm fairly sure I have worked out all the wiring from images on this forum.

Also, Do you think the batteries are OK to mount on their side? Thinking either side of my bike rack, even better if I can hide them within panniers - a true stealth machine!

many thanks for any forward advice on this little venture...

[muzza.au]

Hello all... I am thinking about buying a 18 FET 96-132V 65A

Is that a complete controller that you are talking about? If so I assume you do know that the MP has an internal controller and that to fit an external controller you will have to make the 3 phase wires and the hall sensor wires fit though the hole in the axel. electrorocket is wandering how to do just that on the one he has. See: http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=2110.0
If you can work how to do that, it should work, but I don't know how it will go handling all that extra power. I think there is enough space inside the MP to help disapate the extra heat. Give it a go and tell us what its like being a guinee pig.

Muzza.au

[PEDAL IN POWER OUT]

I would use the Golden Motor HPC100B and keep it in the family.
I must admit to some prejudice, but on a dollar per watt basis, it is impossible to beat.
Have you thought about big amps rather than big volts? The HPC100B can crank out almost 5 times more current than what you are proposing.
Since you are going above 100V, have you thought about plugging the motor into a wall socket to test it out? Just kidding.
I have a pie torn down, and am rewiring it for external controller HPV racing operation. At this point, 16 guage wiring to the coils seems to be an easy fit. I am not at the point of having to press the bearing back over the wire bundle. I did some some fine adjustment of the axle with a hydraulic press to maximize access to the "slot" and lay the wire in just so. I am not concerned about stock alignment on this bike which is why I could take that shortcut. I already have cut the swingarm in half and rewelded it to accomodate a 2 sizes larger diameter wheel. It is the only way to adjust my final drive gearing! The disc brake mount has to be fabricated anyway. Some of the things I am doing might not work out for a stock bike. Speaking of tools, I think this job could be done easily without a press. It would just require more filing/ grinding to detail the slot. It is the bearing puller and circlip pliers that will make or break this operation. Most bearing pullers are not going to fit behind the bearing, because of the reinforcing ribs in the wheel ( where the coils are mounted). I probably could have generated the force necessary with a couple of big screwdrivers, but I did not want to potentially ruin a bearing that would be difficult to replace.  I could not begin to describe the horror of that process. Between the driving and buying different systems and screwing around with it, it took me slightly less than 2 days to get one bearing pulled.  I ended up re-assembling the puller in a somewhat not stock fashion to make it fit. It only took a minute to pull the bearing once I figured it out.
The correct circlip pliers will probably be necessary to get the circlips back over the wire bundle without cutting into the wire insulation. I know they make taking one of these motors apart much easier. The clips will come off with pliers and a screw driver, but the clips and the wire might not be reusable. Why butcher it?
 I am mounting the controller very close to the motor, and eliminating all quick release connections.  These watts are way too expensive to waste on anything other than 0 ohm connections. We cannot use heavy guage wire because it wont fit in the axle. I could carve the axle out more, but it might not hold up the bike! The  best solution for this install is using the least amount of wire possible and minimize any other resistance.  I am not going to put the controller wherever and have a bunch of welding cable looking stuff strung all over. It is bad enough that I must have quick releases in the battery connections for the measuring equipment that the race track folks use to determine if I am having too much fun, or not pedaling enough.  
I will be stripping all paint off the motor. I don't know what the external finish will be this moment. It will be some coating that minimizes heat in, and maximizes heat loss. I know there are some bake on finishes somewhere that will do this. It might be a highly reflecting powder coat exterior, with a heat loss coating on the inside. I cant remember what I used to put on pistons, heads, and headers to control heat back when I used to burn gas for fun.
We really don't want to overbake, do we?

[Bikemad]

The fitting of an external controller has already been successfully done by Munyard. The controller he used sounds very similar, as it too has 18 FETs and can take similar voltages.

Check out the more power from the pie topic for more details.

Alan
 

[Leslie]

Sounds awesome.  The current supply is somewhat massive.. Good resistance with 18 fets.


You will somewhat limit your distance at those voltages and push the current draw significantly for this wheel IMO.  If you had some lipo's it would certainly rip.

Special bikes needs special parts or modify them,  Try 2S2P GM 48v 12ah packs.  You will enjoy the extra power and time you get to ride it.

[martin]

well, after lots of pondering, a touch of nerves, and a little research I have finally committed... ordered another GM 48v 12ah, and the controller (which is fully editable via USB)... wish me luck and i'll post my progress here.

Cheers for the advice so far.. its all gonna help



 

[Leslie]

Good decision.

The power train those super E-bikes use extraordinary parts and pieces. Stunning works of art, Some have much to spare.

The bike and brakes have to be much stronger to handle the shock shock intensity of going so fast.

Start off with a good starter kit get it through a year.

If you're new to this learn as much as you can then start playing with the volts and amps.

Good luck with the purchase.

[martin]

OK... committed, and made a start on converting a perfectly good Magic Pie into something new.... I thought I'd note down what I did in case its of any use to anyone else and I can show my friends what I have been upto!

My second 48v 12AH power source from GM arrived (thanks!). Damn good batteries - done over 1000 miles on my first one and its still as if its brand new...


Here is the new controller, bought from Edward Lynn via the Endless Sphere forum - 18 FET 96-132V 65A - Excellent service from Mr Lynn, and although I only had one Q, very fast response.

Started off by stripping the MP down, I couldn't get the covers off using Bikemad's advice - tapping with a wooden mallet, and if necessary a hairdryer (had a go, but too no avail) and ended up using a large and very sharp wood chisel to gently work off the first cover.


Sans controller, no problems so far.


A bit of solder and heat-shrink (which in retrospect might not have been the best idea as its going to get HOT in there). Hopefully should be OK.


Threading the wires... Ouch, really tight! - used AWG16, bit of ribbon wire, and a very large dollop of Vaseline - ended slicing the last wire into a pencil shaped point to work it in :-)

Once I put the covers back into the MP (thanks to whoever recommended placing a bit of tap on the cover for realigning to bolt holes!) I found I couldn't get the final spring washer on over the wires - resorted to a couple of cable-ties until I find a better alternative.

Lastly, wiring to the new controller. Firstly I reprogrammed the controller via usb to a low amperage so as to not damage anything, then worked through all the control wire combinations to find the correct sequence, which happens to be a different colour configuration to the MP coloured wires (its late and I can't remember the combination, but I will happily post it if anyone wants to know).

So what happened? I couldn't resist having a go at the max setting of the controller - 60amps - and hit 48 mph (on the flat) before chickening out! I am now running at 34amps and do my round trip of 26 miles at 27-33 mph on tarmac and somewhat slower along the towpaths - It will go faster on this setting, but I'm very conscious of peddling and running out of battery steam.

I have constructed a dual battery carrier which holds the batteries on either side of my bike rack - much better centre of gravity as they are quite low. I'll do another post soon with pictures and batteries in series soon.

(Big thank you for all the articles on this forum - answered 90% of my Q's before I even started - especially the user guide -  http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=1548.0 - which I used for wire gauges.)


Ps. for some reason the images aren't showing in my version of Firefox (mac) hopefully your not all having this problem.

[Bikemad]

I couldn't get the covers off using Bikemad's advice - tapping with a wooden mallet

Ps. for some reason the images aren't showing in my version of Firefox (mac) hopefully your not all having this problem.

Sounds like your taps weren't big enough Martin, next time give it a nice firm blow instead.

Anyway, thanks very much for posting these useful details of your controller modification, the pictures are just fine on my PC.
I can't help wondering what a bike fitted with a pair of these modified Pies (producing a combined 8HP) would actually be capable of.
Do you happen to know what the maximum unloaded wheel speed is?

I bet you find it hard keeping the front wheel on the ground with all that power.

Alan
 
 

[vapid2323]

I have constructed a dual battery carrier which holds the batteries on either side of my bike rack

I want to see that!

[martin]

Here you go Vapid - not very exciting I'm afraid!


My 'Stealth Machine!' with two 48v 12Ah batteries either side.


Battery...


The battery mount...


The frame... ( I did warn you its not very exciting!)


I bought two Vertical Restraint Straps (30mm x 2,5mm x 900mm from the local builders merchant.


(Sorry about the dodgy illustration) A bit of bending, then I attached the battery mounts using the original holes. I wrapped the whole thing in two panniers for weather protection. The panniers add nothing to support, but it does help stop the battery from jumping out of its key slot over really bumpy ground. The red dot shows where I luckily got a bolt to go through the straps, bike rack and into the frame using the original bike rack thread.

Finally a nice large bit of 40mm foam along the bottom to protect the batteries.

  

[martin]

Hi All

I am hoping to make an extension lead for my Li-ion charger which came with the GM 48v 12ah battery.

I wish to buy a male and female connector, the same as the ones which plug from the charger into the battery, but I can't for the life of me find out what they are called?? Had a good look online but there are so many I wondered if anyone knows the correct name?

Cheers in advance for any help you can offer...

[windego]

http://www.wiringproducts.com/contents/en-us/d174.html

How about those

[e-lmer]

I don't have pics of his,
but I think he needs the DIN 3 pin connector
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIN_connector
or the IEC C-14 connector (looks like a computer cord)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_connector

(I think the IEC 60309 that looks like the DIN connector is
huge.)

[MonkeyMagic]

Please correct me if I'm wrong but my GM Lithium battery looks to have a RCA type connector.
It is definitely 2 conductor, I've tested the voltage from it.

Either way, the charger will put out a standard 2A with a max input of 5A from optional charges.

Using the GM 2A output charger could work with pratically anything. Wire guage used would be 16/18AWG cable.
Don't waste your money on high amperage connectors because it simply doesn't need it. If you are extending your battery to controller wiring then that is another story...

I recommend to use any IP65 or similiar waterproof/resistant cables which can come in chassis sockets should you wish to mount in a box or frame etc.