Author Topic: zhourenli@goldenmotor.com  (Read 18488 times)

Offline TOM

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zhourenli@goldenmotor.com
« on: November 02, 2009, 08:14:08 AM »
Dear Users of GoldenMotor,

If you wish to solve technical problems, know the status of your order, please contact me at zhourenli@goldenmotor.com
« Last Edit: November 09, 2009, 03:04:21 AM by Yao Yuan »

Offline bopa

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Re: zhourenli@goldenmotor.com
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2009, 06:49:08 PM »
Tom, thanks for the offer to deal with tech problems. When you got my email dated 11/1 and reproduced below, you did reply with a comment about the bike. (And yes it is cool; if I can get a photo pasted into this reply, other members will surely agree with you.) But I asked for technical assistance and still await your reply.

From: Lloyd Morris <lloydmorris@cox.net>
Date: November 1, 2009 6:31:44 PM PST
To: nicholas@arizonaebikes.com, Philip Yao <sales@goldenmotor.com>, Yao Yuan <yaoyuan@goldenmotor.com>, echo <echoxu@goldenmotor.com>, Tom <zhourenli@goldenmotor.com>
Subject: Battery success and (sigh) motor failure

Hi To All,

Here are two of my grandchildren posing on "Our Other Car".



And here is the handout that I made because so many people ask about it.

                  Our Other Car
The Drifter, a steel frame, foot forward, 7-speed cruiser tandem by Sun Bicycles with
   a 500 watt brushless hub motor and a
      12ampere-hour, 36volt, lithium-ion battery pack by Golden Motors.
Accessories include two racks with four Performance grocery-bag panniers, first aid & tools
   plus a Watts-Up power monitor, bike computer, lock, lights, horn, level & water bottles.
Total weight: bike with everything listed above is 100 pounds, and
   payload can be: riders up to 350 pounds and groceries, etc, up to 80 pounds.
Total cost $1600 including bike $600, motor $350, battery $400, accessories $250;
   can be cut to $900 including bike $300, motor $350, battery $200, accessories $50.
Range is over forty miles of mixed hilly and level terrain with a total climb of over 600 feet
     like riding from LaMesa to the beach & back or twice to El Cajon & back.
Top speed about 20mph; maximum grade about 7% with fit riders plus motor.
Fuel economy: four cents for a full charge, and 20 miles on a pound of pasta!
Wanna know more? Email lloydmorris@cox.net or call me at 619 460 8400.

The new battery performs flawlessly and we love it. Sadly, today, the motor died. I suspect the Hall Effect sensors but don't know enough about such things to be sure. Here are the symptoms:
   Abrupt onset of continuous strong vibration and almost total loss of power.
   With the throttle set for full power, a current draw (on my Watts Up meter) of only about six amps
        Dead spots; even with the motor wheel off the ground, it may not start without being first turned by hand.
Here is one more that I added in my followup email (on 11/6)
   When the motor is turning at just a few MPH, its now low power comes in discrete pulses as it passes the many dead spots during each rotation.
       
The motor was ordered 10/10/07 and was installed and first run on 1/13/08. (I don't recall when it arrived but it took a while to build a classy battery box that fit gracefully on the bottom tube, between the cranks.) It ran on SLA batts until we installed your Li ion battery this past July. From August, 2008 to Feb 2009, it was idle while we were in New Zealand. So it has been in use for only about sixteen months and then only lightly. I am confident that we averaged no more than 100 miles per month during those sixteen months.

Please tell me what you can diagnose and/or advise.

Regards, and apologies for being such a nuisance,

Lloyd

Offline Electrobent

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Re: zhourenli@goldenmotor.com
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2009, 11:30:59 PM »
and I am wondering if you received my videos of my motor test.

Offline Leslie

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Re: zhourenli@goldenmotor.com
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2009, 07:49:06 AM »
If you do not suspect the controller being at fault you can test the hall sensors by inserting the the volt meter probes on the connector still connected and controller switched on to power the sensors, you test the small wires going from controller to the hub via the 5 pin connector.

Hall sensors are three tiny IC's imbeded into your motor, two reside in iron cored poles of your motor surrounding one in between two poles.

You do the following to test all three.

Switch controller on, and gently insert the volt probes into the black and yellow pin feeds of the connector and turn the wheel, if it toggles from aprox 5v to 0v it works, then black and green then black and blue.  You should see the voltage toggle from 5v to 0v on all  the wires I have mentioned.

If you see no toggle or a lower voltage on one or more sensors they need replacing.

Or maybe GM will send you out some Hall sensors if you contact them.  But be sure it is the sensors.

A good reliable replacement are these below. The Honeywell SS41.

http://www.newark.com/honeywell-s-c/ss41/hall-effect-magnetic-sensor/dp/73K1376


I am replacing Hall sensors in my spare motor as we speak so I will include some picture in a few hours.


To test the windings I have a DMM (digital multimeter) that test impedances.  It only set me back $50 from Jaycar.

http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=QM1324&CATID=12&form=CAT&SUBCATID=546

Test the inductance between each yellow blue and green  phase wire.  These are the thick wires that lead to your hub. It should read very close or on the mark .85mh

Get your DMM with inductance tester and post back and we can help you further discover the problem.


The above advised DMM also test frequency and PWM so you might be able to fault find your problem in a controller too.

If all these test fine then it is your controller and it maybe easier to purchase a new one from GM.




Here is a way to test your hall sensors without a functional controller.

Recently My bike fell over and I freyed the wires and the bike stopped  functioning.  To make sure my hub motor was OK and not the controller an elimination process has to take place and the most common problem is the failure of three chips on a printed circuit board inside the hub motor called the HALL SENSORS...

HALL sensor are for the most part a good thing as they aid efficient phase angle magnetic detection and timing of the brushless motor design. However they are sensitive to high higher voltages than they're rated at. (5V)

Before you go waist time and money there is a good fast test you can do without a working controller.  You need to test the hub here and disconnect the controller...


Things you need.

1:  3X small batteries soldered in series.
2: 1X multimeter.
3:  1X 10k to 1000k resistor
4:  Wires
5:  One hub motor with sensors that need a testing :)




First thing I did is build a sensor test battery.  I used 3X AA batteries in series and made a solid reliable pack.

Then I attatched the 1000k ohm resistor to the positive..





The test involves turning your hub sensors into a circuit.

The circuit is looks like this.







How it looks in real life looks is a lil more confusing so here goes.


The sensor wires on the golden motor hub are all the thin wires, NEVER ALLOW THE MOTOR POWER WIRES (thick wires) TO TOUCH THE PHASE DETECTION WIRES (thin wires) Even if the motor power wires touch each other the wheel will not move easily at all. just wrap some insulator tape around the motor wires if exposed and you may save yourself a lot of grief.  Ive been lucky so far here.


RED (+ sensor power lead)
BLACK (- sensor power lead)
BLUE, YELLOW, and GREEN ( phase detection sensor leads) for three sensors inside your hub.






Connect the negative wire of the battery to the - BLACK sensor power wire and the black multimeter lead as well like this...






Then connect the +5v battery lead directly to the RED sensor power lead and to the resistor on the opposite side of the resistor endpont, and connect the resistor end point to the red multimeter lead. The image is a little out of whack here as it is hard to do this holding a camera, but the resistor end point is twirled around the red multimeter lead.






Then connect only one of the yellow blue or green wires at a time to the end point of the 1000k resistor.
Here I test the yellow first.








Turn the wheel very slightly until you get close to 5v.  If the voltage drops to 0 then goes to 5 volts as you move the wheel the the sensor your testing works.

If any sensore reads 0 or 5 volts and does not change when you move the wheel, IT BUGGERED...

Yellow sensor is all good here as it alternates between 0 to 5 volts.  Well my batteries a lil flat and expect a voltage drop from the resistor too 4.27 volts is fine under these conditions.


Leave the wheel so yellow read 5 volts. just change the yellow wire to blue and you should get 0 volts. Then move the wheel you should get 5 volts...


to finish the test repeat the above for green..

If the yellow green and blue sensor wires all turn off to 0 volts and on up to 5 volts your sensor array works perfect...


Ohh! Sensor Array! we going  Star Trekie?




To be continued.  (Tables test)
« Last Edit: November 19, 2009, 10:18:33 AM by 317537 »

Bring it on

Offline Electrobent

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Re: zhourenli@goldenmotor.com
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2009, 03:03:13 PM »
But what order are the Hall effect sensors supposed to fire in?

I have tested mine and they fire: Blue, Green, Yellow.

Is that right?

I have done these tests  and my motor passes all of them, yet still it does not work on all three phases--only two and I can't get TOM to believe me--thats why I made the movie.


Only disconnecting the yellow motor wire makes any difference.

It can run just as well with the blue or green wires disconnected.


I will try to find a way to measure inductance--should not be too hard at an engineering college.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2009, 04:28:35 AM by electrobent »

Offline Leslie

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Re: zhourenli@goldenmotor.com
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2009, 04:00:05 AM »
But what order are the Hall effect sensors supposed to fire in?

Its an endless cycle so you cant really tell how it happens unless you see the inside of the motor.

Yellow Hall is located in the centre.


Looking at the board inside they order from right to left.

Blue, yellow, green.  The yellow is offset and the magnets are N S N S. so the firing isnt symetrical thus creates a stumble effect.

 
Depending which direction your motor is facing and heading.

we just go one way.

Blue is open
the motor turns
before blue closes, yellow opens, both blue and yeloow are open
the motor turns
Blue closes and yellow is still open
The motor turns
and before yellow closes and green opens.  both yellow and green are open
The motor turns
Yellow closes and green is still open
The motor turns
Before green closes, blue opens, green and blue are open.
The motor turns,
Green closes and Blue is open.


« Last Edit: November 20, 2009, 04:13:43 AM by 317537 »

Bring it on

Offline J Collaudin

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Re: zhourenli@goldenmotor.com
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2009, 06:26:21 PM »
Dear Zhou
I have received and installed a 250 W motor. I was happy to drive my moto bicycle and, as president of the local cycling club, was promoting your equipment.
Unfortunately I have faced 2 problems:
1 The key lock switch is no more operating and I have by passed it.
2 After 50 km I have heard the 2 bips of the controller and the motor stopped.
One week ago you told me that you will send me "Them". What do you mean ? Hall sensor ? Switch ? both ?
Is it easy to replace the hall sensor ?

I hope some help to recover my motocycle fast.

Best regards
J. Collaudin