Can't dial in my new 48V regen system

[Electrobent]

The three pretty sine waves it made a generator lean me towards option 2.

All of these options are the result of manufacturing errors and not because of something I did to the motor.

Now the challenge is to convince GM that this is their error and that they should make it right.

I got a message back from Tom saying that my controller was out of its year-long warranty.
I took this as good news because it means that there is some sort of warranty.  I have to hope it applies to wheels as well as controllers

I bought this wheel in June of 2009 and while it took several weeks to get here (it sat in my post-office for most of the time) and informed Philip and Tom of problems immediately so I hope this is covered under warranty. 

I guess I give them a week to decide to send me a new wheel and then I start making a stink with Pay-Pal.

[Bikemad]

I took this as good news because it means that there is some sort of warranty.  I have to hope it applies to wheels as well as controllers

I bought this wheel in June of 2009 and while it took several weeks to get here (it sat in my post-office for most of the time) and informed Philip and Tom of problems immediately so I hope this is covered under warranty. 

When I first started discussion with Golden Motor about distributing GM products in Canada, the subject of warranty was as you can imagine one of the top issues.
I was assured all products would carry a one year warranty.
So far due to the excellent quality of the product, we have had only one failure.
Once we were able to pin down the problem of the faulty item, it was replaced by a direct EMS shipment from China at no cost to the customer.

Let's hope this one year warranty applies worldwide, and not just in Canada.

Alan
 

[Electrobent]

But what is the process for making a warranty claim?

Presumably a request via email, quoting product details, date of purchase and a description of the fault.
(In your case, I would recommend you also include a link to this thread)

If they need more details, they can always email you.

[Electrobent]

OK--I sent Tom both this thread and my PayPal receipt.
We will see what happens.

[Electrobent]

OK--this is what happened!

Think its language?

Do I need to find someone to send an email in Chinese?

Hello electrobent

Have you solved your problem?
There is a drawing about regen controller.(PDF enclosed)
What's problem you haven't finished?

If your controller is okay,just wrong phase,how to detect it.
1.shorted the thin black wire and the thin purple wire;
2.put throught the battery and shorted the two pink wires;
3.push your throttle less than 1 second,then motor will run(push less than 12 times,you will find the correct phase)
  when you find the correct phase,don't push your throttle again;
4.disconnect the thin black wire and the thin purple wire(No short)
5.push your throttle again,then the motor can run as the correct phase;
6.then can turn on/off your battery.

Best Regards
Tom

----- Original Message -----
From: "eric.ditwiler@gmail.com" <ygh@goldenmotor.com>
To: <zhourenli@goldenmotor.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 7:14 AM
Subject: Topic: Can't dial in my new 48V regen system (From electrobent)


> Dear Tom,
>
> I want you to check out "Can't dial in my new 48V regen system" on goldenmotor.com.  To view it, please click this link:
>
> http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=1218.0
>
> A comment has also been added regarding this topic:
> Here is the thread documenting my test of my defective motor
>
> Thanks,
> electrobent


And here is my response:

Tom:

No, I have not resolved my problem.

The wheel appears to be wound incorrectly.

The thread from the Forum documents this.

Unplugging the green or blue motor power wires does not change the speed of the motor.

This is true even when the motor wires are plugged into different color controller wires.

It appears as if the coil between the blue and green wires is connected backwards.

I don't know if this is something I can change or not.

Thank you for your help!

--Eric

[Electrobent]

And the response:


On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 11:37 PM, Tom <zhourenli@goldenmotor.com> wrote:

    Hello Eric
     
    Our motor is DC brushless motor,not the AC motor.
    So you test as the suggestion of Bike Mad on our forum is wrong.
     
    I think if your motor can run,there is no problem.
     
    Best Regards
    Tom



my response:

Tom:

I have been trying to get this motor to run for months.

Why would unplugging only one wire slow it down.

Something is VERY WRONG HERE and Golden Motor needs to fix it!

--Eric

[rolf_w]

...I took the wheel apart again and disconnected each phase wire from the 8 small enamel wires...

the 8 wires are 0.56mm strands of same conductor (actually I thought GM uses 10 strands...). The slots are too narrow to use a single thick wire. The motor is star connected. If you want to learn more about the different winding possibilities of such motors check out e.g. http://powercroco.de/ [german only] . If you want to learn more about timing of hall signal and phase voltages check out e.g. http://www.atmel.com/dyn/resources/prod_documents/doc8138.pdf (or other atmel controllers)

[Electrobent]

Thanks for the references!

I may have to learn German before I can ride my bike!

If the motor is star-connected where is the place where they all come together?

There are three bundles of 8 wires each.

I am thinking I should split these out and group them in groups of 4 and then connect 6 wires so I can experiment with how they are tied together, but I won't be able to do this if it is star connected as I won't be able to put an ohm meter across to tell which is which as they will all be connected together.

[Electrobent]

I not getting ANYTHING out of GM.

I am thinking of taking it apart again and separating out all 24 small enamel wires to figure out which go where. 

If it is a delta winding, I should be able to identify 3 separate coils with an ohm meter.


Then I can switch the direction of the Blue-Green pairs.

But would this do anything?

Are both FETs doing the same thing or is one high while the other is low?

[rolf_w]

...If the motor is star-connected where is the place where they all come together?

One end of each phase winding (A, B and C) is soldered to the phase wires the other ends are soldered together without any further connection and insulated in a sheath. The motor has 46P51S (poles and slots) - the calculator from powercroco suggests the following winding pattern:

AaABbBbcCcaAabBbBCcCAaAabBbcCcaAaABbBCcCcaAabBbcCcC

(letters are teeth, capital = clockwise winding). Thus each phase conductor is wrapped around 17 teeth. I re-checked my HBS48/1000W - it has 9 strands for each of the 3 conductors (yours might have only 8 for less power?). It's very unlikely that the bundled strands have been mixed up. The induced voltage test you made indicates equal and (probably) correct windings.

[rolf_w]

...I should split these out and group them in groups of 4 and then connect 6 wires so I can experiment with how they are tied together...

I tried to figure out the switching pattern to be expected on the 3 phases e.g. Y-G. It doesn't match what you measured, probably my patterns are wrong (requires a few more thoughts). The 3 phases shown on the oscilloscope look pretty much the same except the last which seems to have quite an asymmetric timing. The timing is given by the hall sensors (sensitivity, threshold and position). I don't know if this might be critical or if it well within the tolerances.

[Electrobent]

I have posted a video of the test of my 48V Golden Motor Hub and 20" wheel.

Please watch it and post any ideas it gives you.

Thanks!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKRYu4V5A5U

[Leslie]

Ok Ive watched the video over a few times

Its a bit like that flash simulation.  You need to stare at it a while.

I get the tests now and the remapping does indictate the controller is working as the condition still apears on the same wire of the motor. and not the controller.

Yes I do believe the phase wires are not correct.  Your test can only indicate just this IMHO.  It would be good if you fixed this for us to watch and learn but do you really feel like doing this?

If GM agreed at this point the wheel isnt right warranty should be offered.  Upon further testing GM should also refund shipping expenses too.

However I believe this is between you and GM reps now.

[Electrobent]

Both you and Bike Mad have concluded that something is wrong with my wheel.

I am having ZERO luck engaging TOM at Golden Motor.

I would kind of like to fix it myself out of spite at this point. But do not really know what could be wrong.

You mentioned magnets installed wrong, Bike Mad mentioned miss-wound coils--maybe someone got the uppercase-lowercase clockwise--anticlockwise distinctions wrong?

One difference between you and Bike Mad is that you think its star wound and he thinks it is delta.

I did not see a place with three sets of wires coming together.

[Leslie]

Na I don't think the magnets are wrong more chance the phase wires are pair up wrong.  You can test the magnets by running another magnet around the outside of the magnet rim, its better to do when apart though. One should attract and the next repels.

Shipping this stuff back and forth cost too much IMO worth more then 2 new hubs, there must be something GM can do to make it right.

I guess the tech support is Tom and the forums here.  The members have always been good here at helping.

For the price when you get a good hub its a very good deal. 

One guy rewound his whole GM hub on the sphere and this wasnt DOA either. It made an interesting thread. He said they don't pay GM enough to build these motors and I tend to agree when you look at whats in them, these are quality hubs when they work.

I think GM should raise the price and get some QC happening if only these things more rarley happen it would be worth paying a Chinese worker to test them properly before they send them.

Sit tight man and don't worry.  I know youve been messing around with this for a while,  Its the ode of the ebiker really.

I think GM will probably send you out a new hub in the end.  Sending back the old one doesnt seem worth it.

Try remain diplomatic for the rest of this and see how it goes. Yao does come across reasonable here. 

I wish I could do more.  I do have a HBs appart here now and just installed new halls in it.

If you need some more info I'd be happy to offer it before I put this sucker back together.