HBS / MW 16B 1000 watt 48v does it do 470 RPM freewheel if so how ?

[Leslie]

I’ve followed this thread and don’t understand why there has to be such bad feelings. I’d really tried to understand what thaialien been arguing about and I guess Leslie has as well. I think this forum is a great place for us electric bicycle nerds to help each other and that most of us can behave. If I had it my way I would give thaialien a chance to say “I’m sorry, promise to behave”, otherwise I suggest he closes his account and directs the shouting at himself. Keep up the good work Leslie.

Yours sincerely
Peter

Thanks peter.

I will say Im sorry for my part in this.

Sorry for my trolling thaialien   

[Leslie]

PDF is of motor test not 1000 watt kit controller test.

Try different controller than GM 1000 watt kit controller to learn the real truth of motor performance..  Otherwise stop wasting precious bandwdith with many emails and confusing posts.

And stop wasting my time please.

Well why did you not say before that Magic cotrollers are NO Good !

You didnt ask me if GM controllers are no good you asked how to make your GM motor do what the PDF does.  I answered by giving you the PDF that no one could supply.. Then you asked why you were not getting the PDF figures you saw. I explained it was for the motor not the controller.

Then you asked me how to make it work like this and I told you to get a 10 amp rated shunt and warned you for you this may be unhealthy for motor and controller.

I said the PDF has nothing to do with the controller it is for the motor.

Now you say the GM controllers are bad, for $68US the A123 systems killacycle controller is fine IMO?



I told you that the GM gearless motor is designed for single rider.  And now. Yes controller is not to be for public transport vehicles.

The controllers are very minimal in design and very cheap to buy. The GM controllers are good for the 1000 watt kit for general consumer use, not for a professional bike builders marketing taxi bicycles.

For professional use you may need to spend more than $68US.  

[Leslie]

I have 100 different rated shunts sitting in my garage in a big pile of old circuits Ive collected.

Just look in the TV store bins.  Yes dumpster diving.

Another way is ohms law.

w/I²=R

Avoid volts in the equation.

Your desired Watts divided by Your required current squared = the resistance you need.

Say you want 1300 watts and you want 25 amps.

1300 watts/ 25²

25²=625

1300/625= 2.08 ohms.

Some solid iron wire has 500 times the resistance of copper. Look around...

you need 10AWG iron wire at 2.08ohms

Set you constant current in your software at 25 amps and max at 30.

And you should be right...

[Leslie]

W = I² × R

This says the heat produced increases with the "square" of the current. So doubling the current increases the heat power dissipated by 2² = 2 × 2 = 4 times. So small changes in current produce big changed in heating. Dealing with this heating gets complicated fast. In practice current shunts are often rated to be used continuously at only 66% of their "rated current". So if you need a continuous 80 Amp measurement you can't do it wth a typical 100 Amp ( thus 66 A continuous) rated current shunt. Alternately, a shunt may have a graph that shows how you derate its continuous current as a function of the surrounding air temperature. You might find you can use it at full current if it's 0 °C around the shunt, but at only 40% of full rating with a 90 °C ambient temperature.


66% says the site I read, so we try again.









66

[Leslie]

Lets push it.

You want 1400 watts max.

66% will be continuous watts.  Maybe? Ok!

66% of 1400 watts =


1400W/100%=14W, 14W*66%=942 watts cont.

Sounds good to me. Plus you wont be using this on flats.  So motor will have time to cool.

The voltage is is 48v.  So we need our current max.

W/V=I

1400/48v=29 amps max.  Nasty!

W = I² × R

29²=841

1400/841=1.66 ohms

942/48v=19.65A cont


20 amps cont

30 amps Max

1.66 ohm shunt

Finding an inch of 10awg wire that equals 1.66 ohm may be difficult..

Lets look.  GoOglE

[Dummy Dave]

Lets push it.

You want 1400 watts max.

66% will be continuous watts.  Maybe? Ok!

66% of 1400 watts =


1400W/100%=14W, 14W*66%=942 watts cont.

Sounds good to me. Plus you wont be using this on flats.  So motor will have time to cool.

The voltage is is 48v.  So we need our current max.

W/V=I

1400/48v=29 amps max.  Nasty!

W = I² × R

29²=841

1400/841=1.66 ohms

942/48v=19.65A cont


20 amps cont

30 amps Max

1.66 ohm shunt

Finding an inch of 10awg wire that equals 1.66 ohm may be difficult..

Lets look.  GoOglE

Finding that in Thailand !!! I will be dead before I find it ! and my Thai ability is spoken only and about 40% (any one got any Asprins !)

here's a nice song and good example of Thai language

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ov1Ui-qU9vM&feature=related

Thats why I ordered 50amp controller .....and not the old 30 amp one!

But then to get told have to rebuild it and no warranty !!

pehaps you are happy the bank taking 500$ out of your bank account and only give you
250$

Well whats to expect ! Its a joint American venture Golden motor Goes to say somethings about Americans   ( Weapons of mass detruction IRAC ,,,,, who was that President who said that he never had sexual encounter with Monica ?.....)

By the way on some website i've seen it but can not find it now shows how to modify Magic controller  PERHAPS SOMEONE COULD LET ME KNOW THANK YOU!


By the way Luyuan China they have policy keep customers happy !!! they are the biggest e-bike company there.. they sell 15,000,000 ebikes a year !

Leslie, I think you've just been insulted & called an American.
It is possible that the rest of the world doesn't get the joke about your numbers turning into letters when viewed upside-down.  Maybe that's because they're closer to you in Thailand and you only look like you're standing sideways from there.
Because you post so much, is it possible that some people think you represent GM?
Why did you buy your Magic Pie wheels from Gary in Canada?  Are you a dealer?
Are you really from the U.S.
Or are you from down-under?  Oops, some may not know where that is either.
C'mon Mate!  Fess up.  Do you really like Vegemite?
Idle minds want to know...
-Dave

[Leslie]

Just done another 25 miles with the nodded GM 15amp controller which now chucks out 70 amp peak but mainly 35 amps up hills. Still going strong but am waiting for it to fail. Bike is a little faster as I had the programmer set to 24 volts.

I think you can only change one parameter at a time with the software, then save....disconnect....get config....change another parameter etc....

Controller's heat sink is in the wind flow of the open air and just doesn't get warm. A bit of heat paste on the fet's is probably helping as well. Will still get the controller that Scorpion has recommended though.

Scorpion, is the Magic Pie any faster with the new controller?

Wow this member got 70 amps out of his GM controller. But GM web site says 50 amps, Maybe we send 100 emails and give 1000 headaches to gM about this one.  I don't think hes an electric engineer either.

Im sure thaialien could figure out how to make his controller stronger him being an electrical engineer..  Have 10 by 10 amp rated controller shunts in a little jar here.  

I can do it properly to any external controller in 30 mins and I'm no professor.

[Dummy Dave]

Phom mai co jai krrup ! phom kit khun gin ya baa krrup !
Phom mai sur (Magic Pie) phom sur (Magic controller ) mai me mueng kang ! phom kit khum mai me venta khun mai sarp put alai krrup ! khun mai me chalat krrup !
[/quote]

Unable to detect language used.
If I have said anything that you wish clarified, please just say so.
If you are only a troll, then good luck with that.
-Dave

[MonkeyMagic]

hmm looks a Vietnamese a bit actually

If you are only a troll, then good luck with that.
-Dave

lol and apart from that I have no clue whats going on here... :S ?

[Leslie]

Maybe he was going on about me missing adding up the resistance of the entire circuit, batteries BMS cables and motor resistances I tire of just listing them.

Stuff that! The guys an electric engineer, I should need to work all that out for him?


Makes me work, with no fun.  

So then  Rather than poke fun Thaialien, show me your stuff as I have my balls in a knot getting any sense out of your posts to make anything real, So we just make sh!t up, if you cant give us some real tech data you may learn how to get it along the way..

Internal resistance of your pack?
The resistance of your motor windings?
The resistance of your fets?
The resistance of your PCB tracks.
The resistance of your cables and connections?
The resistance of your current shunt in use.

Start by the pack you use?  Maybe I spend three day searching for the specs on this,

Give me some current tests on you BMS through a good temp co-efficient resistor, now that would make things a lot easier.  We could maybe find out the resistance of your whole pack minus the motor then we just use the data 52v/17 amps to get 3 ohms and subtract the battery bms resistance.  Take a poke at the motor resistance and subtract it, subtract your on-fet resistances, subtract your test resistor, and your shunt value should be remaining.

I cant afford a milliohm meter, maybe the electric engineer thiaalien has a milliohm meter and can help us instead of stinking up the board, give us some good resistance values on the GM motors.

Run a battery cell through your motor phase wires two on the negative and one phase on the positive in wye, you must know the internal resistance of the battery cell to be accurate and get the current draw from this circuit.

say the cell is 3.3v and you draw 5 amps through the phase wires. 3.3v/5A=.66 ohms.  an electrical engineer could figure out this one.  Even I can and I am a newbie..  


You getting 17 amps at 52v?

3 ohms.  Tooooo much resistance.

We said the perfect system would need 1.66 ohms to make 1400 watts @ 48v.

1.34 ohms to high.  You want more amps?


Damn this two page effort of getting the details to do a proper calculation.  LOL I had to get most of the data myself to get it this far.  The PDF on his motor was not on the GM site, I spent ages tracking it down and found it buried on ES.

  

I thought an electronics laboratory scientist would of been able to discuss the finer points of my posts without going postal.  At least Thaialian may of put some pencil to pad and do some of the work.  Even a picture of the dear bike and his work on it would give this member some personality.

[e-lmer]

The language appears to be Thai.
That's as far as I can get.

[e-lmer]

I could be wrong, but I think the whole
shunt wire discussion revolves around the
old style mechanical speed controller.

The magic controller (your picture) uses an
integrated circuit to limit the current.

I am not sure if it allows you to reconfigure
the limits.

[MonkeyMagic]

E-lmer lol you seem to be catching up on some posts today!

Yes, the magic controller uses a shunt, you can find it by tracing the GND power line on the PCB, I say to trace it as I have seen it positioned on both top and bottom of the boards.

It's general location is the bottom left side looking from the top of the PCB.

Who42 has gained more power by adding another poly cap next to where the shunt is. This is not confirmed, but I assume this is the cap the microcontroller would be reading its current state of charge during PWM phasing so there is still risk of overheat/failure.

From what I've found on this forum, and without risking my own equipment I see that the controllers will handle around 25A continous maximum. If you add solder to your power PCB traces, and perhaps add solder to the shunt until you reach around 25A continous maximum then leave it.

Any more and it won't last very long.... But will be great while it does! LOL

[MonkeyMagic]

Hey ThaiAlien, geez I didn't think you were still around!! I think E-lmer woke you up with this old post haha

wish I could find full fault diagostic (what does 5 beeps mean ? when you power up ?

That's the part that I gathered you wanted an answer to from your post, sorry but I couldn't understand much of it ! Or were you just posting about the user guide??

5 beeps means Mosfet failure, the controller has been overvolted/overheated and you need to replace 1 or some of the mosfets on the controller.

Anyways good luck

[Thaialien]

Thanks again !