GoldenMotor.com Forum
General Category => Magic Pie & Smart Pie Discussions => Topic started by: Avantgarder on February 24, 2012, 02:36:23 PM
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Hi All,
I bought my Magic Pie directly from Golden Motor 2 months ago.
I can't tell how I adore it. It's green and ...it's mean.
I even sold my car since.
Unfortunately today it suddenly stopped working.
Battery is full but throttle has no response. What really worries me is that the wheel seems to rotate with vibrations and resists rolling as if an aggressive regenerative braking is activated.
1. How can I tell if the motor is dead/burnt ?
2. If the motor is dead, do I send it back to the company ?
3. What is the reason for such a thing to happen ? It happened in a very cold weather while riding on a plane.
Please help
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I started removing the motor caps.
I read that there is no need to remove the cassette.
The cover on the side of the cassette went loose in a second and there is a few mm gap.
The other side where the cable comes out seems to be super glued. No movement what so ever.
I read in some threads in this forum that I need to hammer it with a wooden or rubber mallet. I could not understand where exactly to hammer.
On the stubborn cover ? On the tip of the axis on the cassette side ? I'm afraid the aluminum case will brake :(
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Hi and(https://i.imgur.com/evDSMvT.png)to the forum.
I suspect that your speed controller has probably failed, but you didn't mention whether you have an internal or external controller.
If it's an external controller, you can simply unplug the three thick Green, Blue and Yellow phase wires from the controller to see if the wheel turns more easily again. If it does, the speed controller will need to be replaced.
Unfortunately, with the internal controller you cannot easily perform the same check, but I'm guessing that the controller will have failed and will need to be replaced anyway.
Send an email to David at GM (wyh@goldenmotor.com) explaining that your motor has stopped working and is now stiff and notchy to turn, and ask if he can send you a replacement controller. Make sure you give him your purchase details so he can confirm that it is still within warranty.
There is no need to remove the cover on the brake disc side to access and replace the internal controller.
If the cover is already loose on the freewheel side, you should be able to gently pull on it and wiggle it from side to side until the bearing and casing eventually slide off the axle (or sometimes the bearing stays on the axle and the cover comes away without it) exposing the controller as shown below.
(http://www.arhservices.co.uk/GoldenMotor/emoticons/fingerscrossed.gif)
(https://i.imgur.com/UMcCGU1.png)
To replace the controller:
Take a decent photo, or draw a diagram showing all of the wire colours and exactly where they are connected on the controller's Printed Circuit Board (PCB).
De-solder all of the wires connected to the controller's PCB, but try and keep them roughly in the same place.
Then remove the three Allen headed bolts securing the heatsink plate to the stator.
Then gently slide the old controller out from under the wires and slip the new controller back in under the wires into the required position.
Replace the three Allen headed bolts and then carefully solder each of the wires onto their correct contacts on the PCB.
Refit the side cover and replace the fixing bolts ensuring the machined lip on the cover locates correctly inside the machined face of the magnet-ring assembly before finally tightening the fixing bolts.
Please keep us informed of your progress.
Alan
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There is no need to remove the cover on the brake disc side to access and replace the internal controller.
If the cover is already loose on the freewheel side, you should be able to gently pull on it and wiggle it from side to side until the bearing and casing eventually slide off the axle (or sometimes the bearing stays on the axle and the cover comes away without it) exposing the controller as shown below.
I have an internal controller and I actually consider buying an external one.
It would be great if anybody can recommend a brand that can be purchased outside the US, considering I only care about reliability. The performance of the stock Magic pie is more than enough for me. An external controller would give me the ability to handle it easily without having to disassemble the wheel.
As for opening the motor, lets go step by step:
1. The cover on the freewheel side is loose and shows a gap of 4mm.
It doesn't go completely off because the cassette is blocking it.
2. You say that there is no need to remove the cover on the disk brake side (I actually have no disk brake but it doesn't matter).
This is kind of strange because the cables go in on this side...
I conclude from 1+2 that the cassette needs to be removed in order to access the controller which is on the cassette side. Right ?
By the way...
Amazing forum you've got yourself.
Nice to know that there is a green caring Golden Motor community :D
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As a retired equipment engineering manager, I must warn you: Disconnect the battery before you do anything to the motor.
TTFN,
Dennis
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As a retired equipment engineering manager, I must warn you: Disconnect the battery before you do anything to the motor.
TTFN,
Dennis
Sure ! You can't work on the bike with the heavy beast on it anyway :)
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if you cannot get a replacement internal controller from GM I have one here in the UK that you can have, if you are up for the job of fitting it. When I removed it from my PIE it still worked. :)
There are tutorials on this site somewhere showing(i think) how to change from internal to external, but the external controllers can fail as well.
Andrew :)
P.S when my external GM controller died the wheel did exactly what you have described above.
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Thanks Andrew for your offer. I'll keep it in mind.
By the way... I loved you photo ! ;D
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I took controller off the motor. The motor is now smooth as silk.
It has the quiet electrical hum resistance but there is no notchy feeling anymore.
It was actually very easy to take the controller off:
You just take the Allen bolts on the flywheel side and strike with a rubber mallet on the tip of the axis on the same side ( flywheel side).
So the bottom line is : I need an external controller.
Now the question is whether I can settle on the one below or should I buy a more fancy one. Again, reliability is all I care about.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/72V-1500W-brushless-controller-E-bike-scooter-/260847229409?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cbbb4d9e1
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You wont get much fancier then this for the price. I own one and its a dream come true.
If you buy this, you can send a message to Ecrazyman and for a little extra cost, Ecrazyman can install a few extra customized features and make setting for you to make this easier or look online for the Ecrazyman mods. There is plenty to be had.
I beileve it interfaces with the latest Cycle Analyst, it can do both braking form regen and Back off from accelerator regen. Speed limit , there is a means to interface and change the settings with software, there is even a speed setting upto 120% which can behave a little umm on some bikes. Has proven in the feild low resistance 100v fets. Can handle up to 4000 watts. Any-volt-able from 36v up to 72v anc can be modded easily to hanle up to 86v but some extra modding is needed to get regen to work above 48v as this limits regen voltage to 60v.
The Magic controller are by software in some areas more advanced, quite ingeniuos and is perfect for most uses, but this controller you post is for people who might want to go that little bit further, it is a very solid design and tested by many users, rich with hidden little features people seem to keep finding mods for.. Ecrazyman has a very good user reputation at Ebay and among the larger Ebike community.
For 48v system this is an near to ideal off the shelf controller. I had to cut a shunt out of it as my bike was popping wheelies it was so powerful, and it might hurt your battery because it's too powerful., to fix this took me a few minutes. The Magic Pie can and had handled everything this controller has put to it.
There are bigger controllers with 18 fets but this isnt need for the Magic Pie.
For me and my 48v pack, all I did was enable both throttle and brake switch regen, pull a 20 amps shunt out of it, (cut it) and installed the thing and it has served me very well.
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OK Les. I'll buy it.
What really got me is that you end up with hardware capable of delivering twice the current you actually deliver = reliability.
Do you know if he sells chargers too ?
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He sells a lot of things that is not on his Ebay web site you an ask him on the ebay ask seller question.
Us simple questions, and maybe in number for, Keywin Ecrazy does speak english but he may fail to respond to walls of words not unlike GM..
State what you want. You could even ask him to limit the current via software too but this is rather hard to change back.
He sells the interface connection to the software and may install a CA connector if you ask nicely.. It will cost you extra for added stuff, but his work is good and neat.
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I just took it appart just now to inspect how this single shunt was performing under heavy loads. I thought the resistance may be a little high for the weights I drag in my trailer and maybe I would find signs of heat around the traces or shunt.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/soulelectronique/removedshunt.jpg)
It seems to be a worth while post and picture even though this was a very simple to do modification.
I'll call it the Pussy Ecrazy mod. I thought I cut the shunt it seems I totally removed it. I know I cut the shunt on the old sensorless controller, it's been a while since I did this.
No sign of heat on the other side either. This Controller has been used a lot and towing heavy loads in trailers. I even tow adults on 20km rides in my trailer up hills down hills using the regen for added braking power.
I will warn, this controller without the above modification will eat most batteries under 20ah-25ah alive and leave them useless in no time at all. unless you have very good more expensive batteries
Recommendation off shelf no modification.
20ah 36v battery
25ah 48v battery
With mod.
36v 10ah battery
48v 15ah battery
Best use, is with shunt removed with 48v 20 ah (cheap cells.)
The GM LiFePo4 cells prolly perform a little better under load than my pouch cells. The 10ah pack would last 800 cycles under normal rider conditions.
(http://www.lithium-battery-division-electric-car-company.com/assets/images/energetech-life-batteries-20ah-ev-lithium-car-batteries.jpg)
^^^Pouch cells ^^^
I give no promises nor will GM give warranty.
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Regarding the Ecrazy Pussy-Mod (should be marketed in pink ?) ,You say...
"With mod.
36v 10ah battery
48v 15ah battery"
1. My 48V LiFePo4 is rated 10AH. Seems that even after the mod my Battery will be too weak to handle this controller...
2. In the picture you uploaded, in the circle there is a curly wire leftover. What is it ?
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Yes 10ah is a little on the small side. But I would guess because they are canister cells and not pouch cells like mine they would be more robust. The cells are rated at 800 cycles. My recommendations are a rough guess and conservative. There are people running much higher currents to 40 amps from 10 ah headway cells.. At 2.5C you just shorten the battery life a little. Say from 1000 cycle life to say 800 cycle life MAYBE.. ;-D You can pull the old shunt from your ole controller and mybe install that in place of the Ecrazt controller or build and external shunt from it and add..
The best test is to run the bike up some hills and feel the batterys if they get more then a warm or make more resistance shunts to be very safe if they get hot youre in trouble..
Where you will find big errors are when people put a 40 amp controller straight onto a 10ah GM pack. This is too much.
That curley wire left over is black marker ink. It is not a wire. It looks a bit like a wire.
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Come to think of it...
The difference between the stock 20A and the 22.5A of the pussy controller is negligible...
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HEHEHE Pussy controller. :o
Agrees. ;D
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Personal Suggestions, first of all your battery is full, you can go to the local distributors there, change your twist throttle, because some of the indicator light speed at not can not be used, if it is normal and change 8 pin cable, this might not be hard line to implicate it lead to motor not turn, finally everything is normal, the problem may appear in the motor controller, changing the controller
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I have the controller from ecrazy and I'm ready to install it.
I removed the internal controller.
In order to let the cable that goes in to the motor loose, I have to remove the motor cap on the disk brake side. Do I ?
Also ...Do I need to remove the hidden Snap-Ring in order to let the cap slide out ?
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Anybody ? Les ? David ?
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In order to let the cable that goes in to the motor loose, I have to remove the motor cap on the disk brake side. Do I ?
Also ...Do I need to remove the hidden Snap-Ring in order to let the cap slide out ?
You should be able to remove the side cover first, and then remove the two circlips that are shown here:
(http://www.arhservices.co.uk/GoldenMotor/MP2LHbearing.JPG)
If it doesn't release from the bearing easily, you may need to use a hammer and a wooden drift from the opposite side, to gently persuade it to let go.
(http://www.arhservices.co.uk/GoldenMotor/RHsideview.JPG)
A piece of old broom handle or 1/2" dowel is ideal for this and should be positioned as close to the bearing as possible, gradually working around the eight openings in the stator to ensure the cover comes off evenly, otherwise it could tilt and jam.
If you can slide the bearing about 1/2" away from the stator (you might need to lever it with a couple of screwdrivers or open ended spanners if it's too tight) it should make it much easier to pull the old cable through the narrow slot in the axle. Liquid soap (or silicon spray etc.) can be applied to help it slide through more easily.
With the cable removed, use a small file (or a piece of emery cloth) to remove any sharp edges from the slot before you attempt to pass the new wires through it.
You will need three lengths of heavy duty cable for the phase wires (12g EcoWire™ Plus from Alpha Wire (http://www.alphawire.com/Products/Wire/Hook-Up-Wire/EcoWire/6718.aspx) works well for this) and five thin wires for the hall sensor connections (ribbon cable or network cable etc.).
If you use the same colour cable for all three phase leads, use a permanent marker to mark some indicator lines on both ends of the three new phase wire extension cables, so you can identify which is which when the wheel is assembled, ie G=I, B=II & Y=III.
Now you need to get all eight of these wires threaded through the slot and under the bearing with enough length to reach the wires on the stator.
Slide (or gently tap) the bearing back against the stator, and then refit the two circlips taking care not to trap any of the wires.
(http://www.arhservices.co.uk/GoldenMotor/wire.JPG)
Solder and insulate each of the eight connections, and then make sure the wiring is secured to the stator with tie-wraps to ensure it cannot chaff against either the stator or the side covers.
Heat shrink tubing is probably the best method for insulating the soldered joints, but don't forget to slide it onto the wires as far as possible, before you solder the joints. ;)
Fit the side cover and fixing bolts.
Fit the wheel, and then snip the wires to the required length before fitting some connectors to suit your new controller.
Alan
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Hi Alan,
Thanks for the great photos. It really helps me to understand the construction of the MP3.
TTFN,
Dennis
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Hi Alan,
Since you are being so nice, could you find it in your heart to show us some photos front the other side of the motor? To make it even easier to understand the construction?
TTFN,
Dennis
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Thanks for the pictures Alan,
I'll add some pictures from my side later today.
I actually found my own simple way to remove the motor:
1. I put a cloth on the floor and put the wheel on it with the flywheel (case already open) side of the axis facing the floor.
2. I kneel on the wheel (each knee stepping on the other edge of the tire) and gently apply pressure on the tire, one knee at a time.
3. This exotic passionate dance causes the motor to slide out in seconds.
Apparently what was causing the difficulty to remove the motor was not the snap ring (as I thought) but the magnetic force.
I have few questions left:
1. Now that everything is out, including the old cable, I'm trying to think how would I squeeze those three 4mm^2 flexible cables I bought, through the tiny notch in the axis... This in addition to the thin haul sensor cables...
Also .... Are 4mm^2 flexible cables used for 220v thick enough for carrying 20 A ?
2. Where do I connect the 2 wires that come from the battery gauge to ?
3. Do I connect the cable that comes from the horn (48v) and its switch directly to the battery ?
4. In the controller document throttle = Black ; Green, Red
In Magic Pie doc throttle = Black ; White, Red
Does this mean ...
Black to Black; Green to White ; Red to Red ?
5. The guy who sold me the motor said that 2 of of the 3 motor cables need to be crossed when connected to the controller :
Blue->yellow
yellow->blue
green->green
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I can't squeeze the cables underneath the bearing. I have to remove the bearing but I fail to do it...
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Hi,
If the metallic wire diameter is 4 mm it can carry about 35 amps safely. I'm assuming your 4mm measurement does not include the insulation.
TTFN,
Dennis
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Yes Denis. The 4mm^2 is copper only.
In fact since it's a flexible copper wire which consists of many small wires it should carry more current since it has more copper surface area. This is due to the fact that solid wires usually carry the current close to the surface area.
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More motor images...
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I can't squeeze the cables underneath the bearing. I have to remove the bearing but I fail to do it...
And as for getting new wiring into the hub, yes it was a nightmare
I got 5 rolls of thin cable for the halls, and the alphawire..getting them in was fine, but I found that the circlips kept cutting into the insulation...in the end I put a couple of layers of heatshrink on the part of the circlip that holds the wires, hopefully this should suffice....all in all, with the internal controller to external controller job, I think everything that could go wrong did lol
The bearing must be centred over the slot before the cables are placed under it, as there is no way that the bearing can be fitted if the cables are already in the slot. ;)
If your intention is to remove the bearing so that you can widen the slot with a Dremel or similar, then you may need to use a bearing puller if the bearing is too tight to be levered off:
(http://www-1.vehicletools.co.uk/laser-3473-bearing-puller-long-reach-00113012M.jpg)
You should be able to reduce the size of the cables by carefully removing their outer insulation with a sharp knife on the portion of cable that goes through the axle and into the hub and replace it with heatshrink tubing.
This should result in a smaller diameter cable, but some heatshrink tubing has a tendency to become quite rigid, making it difficult to thread through the slot. The thinner insulation of the heat shrink will not provide anywhere near as much protection from chaffing etc., so make sure there that all sharp edges have been removed completely.
I have few questions left:
1. Now that everything is out, including the old cable, I'm trying to think how would I squeeze those three 4mm^2 flexible cables I bought, through the tiny notch in the axis... This in addition to the thin haul sensor cables...
Also .... Are 4mm^2 flexible cables used for 220v thick enough for carrying 20 A ?
You should be able to reduce the size of the cables by carefully removing their outer insulation with a sharp knife on the portion of cable that goes through the axle and into the hub and replace it with heatshrink tubing.
This should result in a smaller diameter cable, but some heatshrink tubing may make it more rigid, making it difficult to thread through the slot. The thinner insulation of the heat shrink will not provide as much protection from chaffing etc., so make sure there that all sharp edges have been removed completely.
2. Where do I connect the 2 wires that come from the battery gauge to ?
These should be connected to the battery supply cables so that the gauge comes on when the battery switch is on.
3. Do I connect the cable that comes from the horn (48v) and its switch directly to the battery ?
Yes, just the same as the battery gauge wires above.
4. In the controller document throttle = Black ; Green, Red
In Magic Pie doc throttle = Black ; White, Red
Does this mean ...
Black to Black; Green to White ; Red to Red ?
Yes, Black is negative (ground), Red is +5V, and the Green or White is the variable throttle signal voltage.
5. The guy who sold me the motor said that 2 of of the 3 motor cables need to be crossed when connected to the controller :
Blue->yellow
yellow->blue
green->green
Try that combination first, but if that is not correct, I think that might be a question of trial and error with different combinations using only light throttle to find the right combination.
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Alan, thank you for the photos. The conversation about bearing placement and sizing makes much more sense now. I was kind of surprised to see how nice the castings were done, and how sloppy the windings look.
Regarding the problem with feeding wires through the axle, your wire choice is very conservative. If the distance is kept short, smaller diameter wires can be used for quite high current loads. I have no idea what your installation looks like, but in the case of my three wheeler, the battery is at the front of the body, while the MP3 is at the rear, with a run of about 10 feet, so I'm using 10 AWG wire to give a voltage drop of less than a volt at 20 amp DC load. If your controller is kept quite close to the MP, you could get away with using 14 AWG or even smaller. In metric those are about 10AWG=2.5 mm, 14 AWG=1.5 mm. You could also use the larger wire you already have to go part of the distance, and use smaller wire for threading through the axle. It is a bad idea to select undersized connectors, tho.
TTFN,
Dennis
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Thanks for the great photos. It really helps me to understand the construction of the MP3.
Dennis, those photos (mine and Avantgarder's) were of the MPII, not the MPIII.
The stator inside the MPIII looks like this:
(http://www.arhservices.co.uk/GoldenMotor/MP3StatorRH.JPG)
Right Hand Side.
(http://www.arhservices.co.uk/GoldenMotor/MP3StatorLH.JPG)
Left Hand Side
The Left Hand side cover with the large bearing locates over the controller housing part of the stator, instead of the axle:
(http://www.arhservices.co.uk/GoldenMotor/PA291547.JPG)
I hope this helps to clarify the main difference between the two motors.
Alan
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I sanded and filled the sharp edges too. I then held the cable in with some tight winds of electrical tape and a layer of heat shrink to stop water getting into the tape. It seemed to be much stronger using tape first. Getting multiple heat shrink layers over it helps but you can only go so far until the available widths make it unmanageable to get a thick sleeve. So tape first and maybe one or two layer of heat shrink, and it works amazing.
I had to do mine as the insulator was getting cut not by the circlip but being damaged by the end of cable tunnel in the axle. So it is a good idea while ya there do a sand job on the axle cable tunnel. or what ever ya call it.,
I was about to have a big battery short out with the internal controller. You can still damage a BMS even with a decent fuse.
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Hi,
If the metallic wire diameter is 4 mm it can carry about 35 amps safely. I'm assuming your 4mm measurement does not include the insulation.
TTFN,
Dennis
I managed 50A no problem 4mm, phase wire only though. What ever your DC rating on the wire is, multiply that that by about 1.5 due to PWM and 3 phase behaves as AC. Also remember nobody here actually runs 35amps full continuous. A little resistance around the power train is handy with our smaller cheaper packs and controllers..
Our application is much different to many. One maybe lucky to run 25 amps over 5 minute to the top of the hill max, and peak at 30A for seconds..
More people have had problems with fine core conductor rated below 50v with 52v packs, than 240v 10 amp extension cable.
Funny as, Too much weight towing a trailer, I melted my HBS windings, dipping and stator-plastic into stank, just using plain old fashion extension cable wire, the wire was not hot at all. The motor was boiling..
And I bought this 4 guage rated at 50v for my pack main power conductors, for DC. The conductor literally started to turn black inside the insulator and over time turned freaking green and got brittle then started to fray, I'm pretty sure it was useless in a month and had more resistance than much smaller gauge with higher voltage ratings. It not just how wide the cable is it matters how thick the strands are, if they are fine, high voltage is going to be your bitch then high resistance latter down the track.
Keep em short as possible and keep the controller not too far away from the battery. Smaller gauge may waste some energy if it gets too long. And AWG toooooo small it gets a warm.
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Oh BTW, Running the 50v 4 AWG, imo it was "charging" to the pack through this conductor @ 2 amps @ 60v is what caused the most damage of the conductor. No heat and very little resistance, just not enough under the skin of the core to take a high pressure electron force of 60v applied.
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What under the shrink wrap, Insulated copper or a silverish alloy?
If there is nothing under the shrink wrap and still cant get the bearing over it replace with copper insulated.
If insulated remove the heatshrink.
If you replace with copper insulated. A little sanding off the insulator may help thin it just a tiny little bit..
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Yes Denis. The 4mm^2 is copper only.
In fact since it's a flexible copper wire which consists of many small wires it should carry more current since it has more copper surface area. This is due to the fact that solid wires usually carry the current close to the surface area.
No not the case. Many fine wires fits more conductor inside the insulator making more current pathways, and less core under the skin to support voltage pressure.. Thicker core strands equals less current pathways but much higher voltages.
You're using high voltage wire prolly 3 phase grid conductor. Not going to be ideal.
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I managed to pull out the bearing using this tool that I improvised.
I also sanded all the sharp edges that meet wires.
Les,
Where were you man ? The entire Interpol was after you ...
I didn't get you. If solid wires are not suitable and 220v flexible wires are not ideal , what would be the perfect solution for 50v 20A ?
Note that I don't want to wait another month for a shipment from the other side of planet earth so let's think of a solution that can be obtained from a hardware\electricity store...
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There are 3 different effects that damage wires.
1: Electron- hole pressure ionic break down
2: Electron-hole resistance, thermal break down .
3: physical damage.
1: High voltage pushes deeper into the conductor strands, and if too thin the electron pressure vs electron ionic bonding coherence of the strand conductor does bad things.
Where as voltages, the pressure shoves electron current into the conductor paths, and this is where ohms law comes into play.
2:High current (I) and less strands = more resistance. The voltage has to divide into less current pathways. V/I=R
However if your conductor strands are up to the task, the higher the voltages actually aids current as more electrons and holes is pushed through a single strand because of higher pressure, this causes lower resistance to current naturally..
1:So say if your wire is rated at 40v 100 amps and your pushing 50v through it at 1 amp. Not all conductors are going to be used efficiently each strand being utilized to max potential becomes bombarded by energy and slowly each strand will break down and react with its environment.. Slowly each conductor strand fails until you have next to none left. Slowly cutting current pathways until the last few remain, the resistance raises at 50v. Not after too long you wont get 1 amp through this wire little only 100 amps.
2: Say your wire is rated at 60v 10 amps. And youre pushing 50v @ 50 amps. There isnt enough voltage to interfere with the ion bonds in the conductor, but the current will be forced through all the strands less efficiently as the electron are not being pushed so deep into conductor and the strands are resistance resisting both the pressure and current permitted to flow though the conductor from point A to B . Current (I) is multiplied by the resistance equals voltage. I*R=V
Both current and volts shall be wasted using both. 50v/50A=1R and 50A*1R=50v, tells us if we short negative to positive we will have a 50v drop between Point A- and b+ and 50 amps shall pass..
The Volts by the amount of Amps being forced and impeded * to a 50v voltage drop and 50amps passage its indicative to the symbol * between point A and B of the conductor. This causes heat, Watts.
I*V=W Causes thermal break down.
Volt rating is rated by how much volts each strand can take,
For current it's more of a guide to get you desired amps, Consider cut off limit to V and the resistance of device, then the resistance per meter or the desired SI unit shall equal amps allowed.
We must equate the entire voltage drop out of the fets to get an idea how much our phase wire will suffer under load.
Windings resistance are approx .01R
4 foot of 8awg is approx 0.004 ohms.
20 amp controller approx 2.4 ohms ohms
Cheap 1C battery .12
Power leads .001
Lets just say about 2.5 ohms full circuit. 50v/2.5 ohms = 20 amps.
We have all the stuff needed to calculate the voltage drop across the phase wires.. @ 20 amps.
2.5R - 0.004 =2.496R
20A*2.496R= 49.92v-
50v-49.92v =.8v
We have a .8v drop across our phase wire @ 20 amps.
16 watts per 4feet= 4 watts per foot.
Consider PWM and 3 phase/4*3 = 3 watts per foot. Gawd I don't know. Depends on the frequency,
Imagine a foot long by 4mm diameter copper resistor burning 3 watts on max load. Or .3% of the heat a 1000 watt stove element spread over a 4mm * 1 foot wire.
I have no idea how hot a stove element gets, lets plug in 500 deg C. Generous figure at best I guess.
We are approximately adding 1.5 degC @ 20 amps to our phase wire,
Add another shunt to our controller @ 40 amps. Total resistance now 1.3 ohms we can do 38 amps. A better pack gets us closer to 40 amps,
Save me the v drop calculation and we will see about 7 watts/foot and 3.5 deg C on our phase conductor. 38 amps, That's close enough to 3Eman estimate. Add a blob of solder over the shunt and we can do 50 amps easy.
Also consider that we are only dealing with constant peak current values and at 50 amps and really mostly probably doing 20 amps average..
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I would take a walk down to the auto mechanics if I was you and suss out what he's got. Tell him you have PWM DC or AC and you want 20/30 amps through 4ft of at least 60v cable.
I just pulled a power tool extension cord apart and used the earth wire as it was the the thickest and heat shrinked my red, blue, yellow colors over the ends..
USA AC cable is rated at 120v at about 15 amps @ 10 meters. That's perfect. <<< Corrected
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The AC cable worked fine for my HBS, But the stuff I got from the auto electrician was much better. Just means more efficient
No, using the 240v cable did not hurt my motor, my beautiful wife did doing this to the poor bike.
Would this be enough power for you? The 240v wires worked fine.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/soulelectronique/Thehose.jpg)
Look close at what my wife rode home in the baby cariage, and in a trailer. Id say about 50kgs of food potting mix and everything is in that. All through extension cord wires.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/soulelectronique/Shopping.jpg)
And add 30 kg SLA. This over 3 year back.
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LOL. If anything the smaller gauge was prolly padding the motor, maybe why she made it home that night. I could fry an egg on the motor. The wires were hardly warm away from the motor.
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(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/soulelectronique/compare-1.jpg)
The damage to the motor. :( Before and after.
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(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/soulelectronique/wire1.jpg)
GM hbs hub 20 amp wire above vs extention cord wire below.
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The extension cord I pulled apart was for power power tools and it was very long, so he wires were a bit thicker. It was already wrecked so it costed me nothing.
Others sources of good wire are decent power boards. Stoves, and stuff that requires high amps you might have in the garage, broken or waiting to throw out.
The auto electrician has RC wire for campers and what not, it cheap and really good because you don't need too much.
As for getting the bearing over the wire.
Install long wires that will lead all the way to your controller.. You don't want those short silly wires poking out and have an ugly fat connection at the axle to deal with.
I think I sat the ends of new long wires in the axle gap right up to where the axle gap ends. Then I pushed the bearing over the wires poking the wire ends with a screw driver under the bearing as I slid the bearing into place. I damaged the ends or the wires only, I cut them off after I pull the full length of my new wires through all the way. Some oil or detergent can aid the slippage.
I don't remember having to remove the bearing. I think it slipped far along for me to get enough wire into the axle gap so when I slid the bearing back my wire end were accessible.
I only had to thin the HBS wires at the ends, as for the MP it worked by brute force to push them under the bearing with the screw drives aid and some slippy detergent to ease the wires all the way through..
Finish edit.
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For my hall sensor wires I just found an old PC USB cord laying around that had the best wires inside and installed these.
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I wonder how these cable are. They are used to carry high Amps inside power amplifiers.
http://www.partsconnexion.com/wire_hookup_cardas.html.
They improve the sound and bass delivery by allowing bursts of currents.
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I really can't remember my gauge. I think I I think I got 12 or 14awg through. See GM make theirs with much thinner insulator and it's stronger.
You would be better to go local for this and see and feel and ask. I see some great marine wire on eBay but it is tinned. Can I ask WTH with?
I really didn't do this part online. See in Australia we speak kangaroo, meaning our standards and language differ. And sometime I don't think internet sites know what they talk about never offering enough information.
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http://www.dave-cushman.net/elect/wiregauge.html
My wire is 4mm diameter by insulator and maybe 2.8mm wire diameter.
I lost my glasses, and I'm lost without my glasses. :o
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Because we don't have the outter shield and we insalling our own hall sensor wire we cab do better than an external gm hub phase wire. The USB wires are thinner than GM and seem to work just fine so we can get a couple more mm in their..
The you need moderate flex for shock and weather resistant insulator able to do +60v Usually inslators isnt a problem, lots over 600v+.
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Hi Avantgarder,
The wire you linked to was a good choice. It has multiple strands for flexibility, and a thin insulator for reduced diameter to thread thru the axle. BUT, (caps on purpose) there is no info on insulation breakdown voltage. I previously stated you can use a smaller wire to carry a high current over short distances. You should NEVER select an insulation breakdown rating under or even near your applied voltage. IMHO you should not "carefully reduce the diameter of the insulation". This is just asking for trouble. Get some wire with physically thinner insulation.
Hi Les.
If English is not your native language, let me apologize for what I'm about to say. Your use of the math on Ohms law shows a general understanding of its importance.
But, if your think this quoted information is correct, you have a severe misunderstanding of electricity, or you are trying to BS the kind folks on this board.
Begin quote:
There are 3 different effects that damage wires.
1: Electron- hole pressure ionic break down
2: Electron-hole resitance, thermal break down .
3: physical damage.
1: High voltage pushes deeper into the conductor strands, and if too thin the electron pressure vs electron ionic bonding coherence of the strand conductor does bad things.
Where as voltages, the pressure shoves electron current into the conductor paths, and this is where ohms law comes into play.
2:High current (I) and less strands = more resistance. The voltage has to divide into less current pathways. V/I=R
However if your conductor strands are up to the task, the higher the voltages actually aids current as more electrons and holes is pushed through a single strand because of higher pressure, this causes lower resistance to current naturally..
1:So say if your wire is rated at 40v 100 amps and your pushing 50v through it at 1 amp. Not all conductors are going to be used efficiently each strand being utilized to max potential becomes bombarded by energy and slowly each strand will break down and react with its environment.. Slowly each conductor strand fails until you have next to none left. Slowly cutting current pathways until the last few remain, the resistance raises at 50v. Not after too long you wont get 1 amp through this wire little only 100 amps.
2: Say your wire is rated at 60v 10 amps. And you're pushing 50v @ 50 amps. There isn't enough voltage to interfere with the ion bonds in the conductor, but the current will be forced through all the strands less efficiently as the electron are not being pushed so deep into conductor and the strands are resistance resisting both the pressure and current permitted to flow though the conductor from point A to B . Current (I) is multiplied by the resistance equals voltage. I*R=V
End quote.
This level of explanation is dangerously wrong.
You also described stranded wires as being blackened by the voltage pressure. What you saw was really common corrosion induced by the chemicals of the insulation.
Again, if English is not your native tongue, it is entirely possible that the erroneous BS was merely an artefact of translation from your native tongue. And if so, I apologize for my rude comments.
Sincerely, with no malice intended,
Dennis
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No I said the energy levels get to a point it makes the conductor react with it environment. We are talking about 50v 4awg handling no more than 20 amps and failing with in months, compared to 10 awg being able to handle the same indefinetly. There only can be one explaination.
Electricity skims along the conductor surface, more surface the more current, this is called skin effect. The higher the voltage the deeper you push into the skin until it start to bounce in and off the conductor and even arc if you really push the volatges.. This is such damage I explain over a longer term.
I saw one exoperiment where they pummped 10,000' amps through a thick metal plate, 10cm long @ 1v and the plate just lights up an awesome bright white for as long as you apply the currrent. 10,000 watts.
Now reverse the situation 10,000v @ 1 amp. Heheheheh Kapow. Learning anything here.
Explain why 1.2v @ @ 1000 amps wont kill you but 1200 volts a 1 amps will kill you dead.
The difference between a bullet and a truck going 1km per hour..
Maybe they or who ever, don't understand something I do, I suggest this is the case. Are you one of these people that think it's current that kills?
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Voltage pushes jumps and current infiltrates floods.
I used to love playing with plasma balls, the arc from the single strand conductor, that is a lot thicker than most stands in the wire we use, etchs out conductors, causes corrosion, oxdization, and builds nano partcles, all those nasties I mention all from a power pack lucky to delivers 12 watts. Virtual electrolysys in mid air. We are not talking about vaccume. Air, particles, works as an electrolyte at high voltages and there is only so much electrical pressure that an atom can take before it's usuall properties and behavior changes dramtically.
All electro chemistry, revolves around changing the energy level of one atom to take on a different signature. What they can do with fusion we can do everything with electricty. The saying there is more than one way to skin a cat is not untrue.
To make an atom behave as if it was another, just add or take power. Simple H O2 generater, by adding enegy to water, we can make make H and O2 stable appart and behave differently to its original form. By burning oxygen and and hydrogen you remove that energy and it returns back into water. Yeah Fukashima should of been an energy implosion, it looked more like weaponized uranium to me.
Material and environment has everything to do with voltage rating as well. I was just correcting the OP about his assumption thick strands are good for current.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-YwbgXpnkA
Check this out. By errecting an ultra high energy electrical field around the iron bar with enough current to contain the moles, we can manipluate solid Iron with another direct energy field.. I guess what happens here is he turns the atomic bonding within the Iron to a semi non newtonic state with the static field, and with a little directed energy jiggles the atoms as to warp the Iron, mind you, with out much controll over the manipulation. Still it's a good start.
These experiments are old and done through a home power outlet.. Hutchison is just a hack hwo got his hands on some old military expermental equipment, he thinks he is on to some free energy thing. A wall outlet can indeed provide the energy to warp this Iron bar many different ways, you just need to look at it in perspectve.
Over a longer period, say a month or two, 10 watts could turn this iron block into dust, just by using ultra high voltages.
It is my belief this technology is much more advanced under the cloak of secrecy. Only one could imagine the implications.
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Explain why 1.2v @ @ 1000 amps wont kill you but 1200 volts a 1 amps will kill you dead.
Hi Les,
You asked for an explanation in the line I copied. As an attendee or lecturer for close to 40 years of electrical safety training, this is very easy. You have framed the question parameters wrong.
For the sake of argument, lets assume the resistance of the human body is 1K Ohm, and we have two voltage sources that can easily push 1000 Amps. It is easy to see that 1200 volts across 1000 Ohms will yield a current through the body of 1.2 Amps. And the owner of the body will probably die. (Most medical guys put the 50LEL at 350 mA. ) Now take a similar body, ('Cause that one is dead) and apply 1.2 volts across it. The current will be 1.2 mA, and almost no one will notice any effect. In other words, you can't get 1000 amps to flow through the body at 1.2 volts. The parameters of your statement were not valid. If you don't agree with the 1KOhm value, please substitute any reasonable value you like. The first guy will wind up dead, and the second guy will never notice it.
Regarding your Hutchinson link, since Photo Shop became available, you cannot believe anything you find on the internet. For instance, I am much taller, younger and better looking on the net than I am at home. I suspect the same for you. :)
Have a good day!
TTFN,
Dennis
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Explain why 1.2v @ @ 1000 amps wont kill you but 1200 volts a 1 amps will kill you dead.
Hi Les,
. You have framed the question parameters wrong.
No I have not. I could provide 1000 amps potential @1.2v but will only draw 1.2ma due to the resistance. Your answer was right but my question was not wrong.
To ask you such a question in the right context that you say I should ask, I would have to provide the answer too.
Let me rephrase the question
Why can we survive 1.2v @ 1.2ma where as 1200v @ 1amp kill you dead. LOL the question doesnt even make sense now. :o
And if someone showed us they could cook a chicken with no fire 200 years ago through thin air I think id turn to science for an explanation, would you cry witch craft and burn them?
I don't live in a bubble where I just have to reproduce what I am told to just to conform..
We have an imagination that can look beyond what is already there.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfPeprQ7oGc
Watch this through.
Im sure I'm not the only person that can explan why this is so, well I hope so. There is a reason why the answer hasnt came out now, similar to why nature is guarding this secret. Like spliting atoms Some secrets are best kept a secret. But seeing the hutchinson effect is out there well why not discuss it. I can understand how this works.
But to think there is so much out there yet to discover.
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Hi Les,
I think you and I have fundamentally different views of how the universe operates. So, unless you tell someone something that will cause harm, I'm going to let you enjoy your world.
TTFN,
Dennis
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3U0kLgKWoo
Watch. I don't see any photoshop. And no hanky panky spinning the camera around with the room. This is just a handheld super 8 cam dated as far back as 1988.
Sure a lot of this could be trick photgraphy, but some of it is difficult to do, if they are such hoaxes the video would be in perfect quality or the outcome of the hutchinsons effect would look fake.
By tuning into the resonant frequencies of a particular element you can effect that elements.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejHXMqPfytw
Burning salt water with radio waves.
His original Idea for cancer was much more brilliant than his salt water burning. I agree you can not escape the laws of thermodynamics. But you can find new energy, a source that is untapped. EG the energy that holds rock together can be harnessed.
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Hi Les,
So, unless you tell someone something that will cause harm, I'm going to let you enjoy your world.
TTFN,
Dennis
Like Im some person that is going to kill someone. Watchout
The GM safety officer is here we are safe now.
It was my cable turning black then green before my eyes. running all the way into the cable under the insulator. I have seen it more than once.
It was capable of exceeding 200 amps. The only spec was out on the cable was the voltage.
You don't have to explain, I already did. Thanx for the troll.
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The good news :
1. I managed to squeeze the three 2.5mm^2 cables + the haul sensor cables via the tiny axis notch .
2. Instead of the horrible snap rings I coiled a solid copper wire to attache the cables to the notch. It feels and looks solid, secure and much healthier to the cables than the stock solution.
3. I verified that there is no shortcut or disconnection in any of the squeezed cables.
4. I assembled the motor back to the wheel and everything is now in its place. The wheel rotates beautifully...
5. I downloaded the exact parameters (per specific setting sent to me) to the controller via USB cable
6. I connected the ecrazy 1500w controller to my bicycle exactly per instructions which included "cross-connecting yellow and blue power cables".
The bad news :
After everything is connected something is still wrong. When I open throttle I hear a vague sound as if the motor starts to move but then it cuts power.
I'm 100% sure I connected everything correctly . I'm very skilled with soldering and I work very carefully and systematically.
What do I do now ?
Any idea how to troubleshoot ?
What should I measure where in order to isolate the problematic area or problematic connection ?
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Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeha ! ;D
The problem was that haul sensor cables were not cross-connected in the same way as Power cables.
Now that both power cables and haul sensor cables are crossed everything is fine.
Blue->yellow
yellow->blue
green->green
I'll take care of all the finish and report how the bike is :-)
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I went out for a ride and it seems that the power is not fluent. As if I'm running a step motor.
Significantly better then yesterday and a prove that nothing was damaged but not perfect.
Could it be an issue of motor settings ?
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I disconnected the controller and measured resistance between the 3 power cables :
Green to blue : 0.3 ohm.
Green to yellow : 0.3 ohm.
Blue to yellow : 0.3 ohm.
Haul sensor measurements (Fluke is in Diode mode)
Fluke red pen to red haul sensor cable. Fluke black pen to Blue, Green and Yellow:
All gave 1.3 except Yellow
Fluke red pen to black haul sensor cable. Fluke black pen to Blue, Green and Yellow:
All gave 0.65 except Yellow
I opened the motor again and found that all the cables I routed are perfect.
The "yellow" haul sensor is dead.
Can anybody tell me the exact specification or brand of the haul sensor ?
It fits a ~ 2mm x 3mm notch in the perimeter of the motor
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The Honeywell ss41 hall sensor (http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?PName?Name=480-1999-ND) is commonly used as a replacement and can be purchased from most electrical component suppliers, but if you can't find them at your local supplier, check out this post on ES (http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=20410#p297816) regarding purchasing hall sensors.
I suggest you change all three sensors, not just the yellow one. The Honeywell sensors are "latching" (they remain switched until an opposite magnetic field turns them off again) so they might operate slightly differently to the existing sensors, using three matching sensors should ensure you end up with a smoother running motor.
Take a look at this post (http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=2409.msg14247#msg14247) and this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7m8DA6mmo84) for more details on testing the operation of the hall sensors.
If anyone is interested, this post (http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=3456.msg20880#msg20880) has a link to a video demonstrating the difference in operation between a motor type latching hall sensor and a throttle type linear hall sensor.
Alan
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Thanks Alan,
I ordered 3 of the ss41.
Shipping from the US will take about 10 days to arrive and once they arrive I'll report my progress.
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Here is closeup of the notch for the sensor.
David from GM got back to me today and told me that in addition to replacing the defected sensor I will also need to configure my external controller for a phase of 120 degrees.
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Youre using that Ecrazy controller, Im prerty sure they default @ 120 deg, that software is awesome. Not the phase currents can be higher than the input current. Sort a puts a spanner in the math regarding torque and voltage vs Amps.
BTW its hard to test hall sensor. Its good to power them on and test them the voltages between black and color wires rotating the wheel to see if all are working..
It sounds like you got a handle of all this Ebike stuff now and soon you will be riding trouble free...
I pulled my bike apart to rebuld as I thought my back rack was bent, it turned out my DIY rack was rock solid but the rear dual suspension was twisted due to the bike falling over loading the trailer all the time. I solved the bike falling over thing by welding a bike stand to the trailer. But I don't like this bike any more twisted a little.
I have an old Currie Tech 26" MTB gracefull Momma... So I rigged my old ecrazy controller up, and internal converted to external MP and :( it didnt work, could be anything. I looks to the spare GM MP2 with modded but original internal motor, I Hard wires it and wooosh off she went. This little internal MP2 was clocking up to 2500 watts on the CA.
The MP internal controller is a little sluggish off the mark but my low to mid end torque is amazing.
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Youre using that Ecrazy controller, Im prerty sure they default @ 120 deg, that software is awesome. Note the phase currents can be higher than the input current. Sort a puts a spanner in the math regarding torque and voltage vs Amps.
BTW its hard to test hall sensor. Its good to power them on and test them the voltages between black and color wires rotating the wheel to see if all are working..
It sounds like you got a handle of all this Ebike stuff now and soon you will be riding trouble free...
I pulled my bike apart to rebuld as I thought my back rack was bent, it turned out my DIY rack was rock solid but the rear dual suspension was twisted due to the bike falling over loading the trailer all the time. I solved the bike falling over thing by welding a bike stand to the trailer. But I don't like this bike any more twisted a little.
I have an old Currie Tech 26" MTB gracefull Momma... So I rigged my old ecrazy controller up, and internal converted to external MP and :( it didnt work, could be anything. I looks to the spare GM MP2 with modded but original internal motor, I Hard wires it and wooosh off she went. This little internal MP2 was clocking up to 2500 watts on the CA.
The MP internal controller is a little sluggish off the mark but my low to mid end torque is amazing.
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I got the Honeywell SS41 hall sensors.
I have some concerns regarding my motor though:
1. The sensors I got are original Honywell SS41 sensors labeled "S41"
The 3 sensors I have on my motor (only one is defected) are labeled "40P 822". Not an original ?
2. The honywell is trapezoidal and the ones I have are rectangular
3. The honywell is a bit too big for the notch I have. I don't like the idea of machining the metal so close to the delicate motor wiring.
4. Assuming I'll resolve the notch space issue, Should I have all of them replaced to the honywell ?
5. How do I connect the honeywell sensor ? Assuming the sensor label is facing away from the motor axis how do I wire the red black & yellow cables ?
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I'm very surprised by the rectangular sensors, is there any chance you can post a picture of your stator?
The attached picture of my Magic Pie should help you identify the wires and orientation of the Honeywell sensors.
Alan
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Alan,
Thanks for the image. Which side of the trapezoid is suppose to face the axis of the stator ? the narrow one or the wide one ?
Regarding my stator, Have a look a few posts above your last post. I attached a closeup of my stator.
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The wide side faces the axle and the narrow side facing outwards.
Unfortunately, the image does not show the recess in enough detail to determine whether the outline of the slot is rectangular or trapezoidal:
(http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4209.0;attach=5588;image)
When I replace my hall sensors, they were bonded in so tight that I had to completely destroy them and remove them "bit by bit", and it was difficult to see the exact shape of the slot until I had carefully chiselled out every minute part of the smashed sensor (and the adhesive) using a tiny jewellers' screwdriver.
(A tiny screwdriver that Jewellers use, not a screwdriver borrowed from a tiny jeweller ). ;)
Alan
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Exactly the same problem I'm facing.
I had to chisel the epoxy glue with a(n eventually destroyed) screw driver.
As for the notch I had to machine it with a tungsten carbide burr which I "borrowed" from my dentist ;D
I widened it 1mm from each side to accept the slightly bigger ss41.
I hope the sensors exact location can withstand a tolerance of 1mm to the right or to the left...
What do you say Alan ?
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What do you say Alan ?
I say you must have a very understanding dentist! :D
Anyway, try to position the sensor as close as you can to the centre of the original slot, but I don't think it will make a huge difference to the timing of the phase switching if they're slightly out.
Alan
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"understanding dentist"
lol !!!!
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I'll start from the end : Finally I saw a little light in the darkness...My ebike is running !
Here is the process I had to go through + pictures:
In this picture you can see the result of the work with the tungsten carbide head. The notches are now wider and can accept the SS41 hall sensors.
DANGER !!!
WHEN USING THE TUNGSTEN CARBIDE BURR, MAKE SURE YOU PROTECT THE MOTOR COILS WITH A FEW LAYERS OF THICK TAPE.
THE BURR HAS A TENDENCY TO RUN LOOSE AND CAN DESTROY YOUR MOTOR.
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The next step is to fix the sensors to the notches with high quality epoxy putty.
The sensors must not be welded to the wires yet. Doing that will cause the sensors to move from a straight position. I learned it the hard way :(
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After sanding the surface where the rough epoxy putty mounts (Be careful not to sand the sensors !) I went and soldered all the wires to the sensors.
I made sure all motor measurements are correct:
Resistance between the 3 power cables :
Green to blue : 0.3 ohm.
Green to yellow : 0.3 ohm.
Blue to yellow : 0.3 ohm.
Haul sensor measurements (Fluke is in Diode mode)
Fluke red pen to red haul sensor cable. Fluke black pen to Blue, Green and Yellow:
All gave 1.8v
Fluke red pen to black haul sensor cable. Fluke black pen to Blue, Green and Yellow:
All gave 0.65v
I used heat shrink sleeves for each wire and covered all of the with a hot glue filled shrink sleeve to make sure nothing goes loose.
Sewing the whole deal is also recommended.
I also recommend to use a rigid cable like the blue one in the picture to secure the cables that connect to the stator.
If any of them will go loose there will be serious damage.
I also noticed that the motor cap on the disk brake side (second picture), has razor sharp edges that harm the cables on the axis anytime it's taken off.
Sanding it also a good idea.
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Now that the motor is done I assembled everything back and went on to connect the ecrazyman controller.
This is how the wires are connected...
Power cables:
Blue to Blue.
Green to Yellow.
Yellow to Green.
Sensor cables:
Blue to Blue.
Green to Yellow.
Yellow to Green.
Red to Red.
Black to Black.
Throttle and brakes are pretty straight forward...
Attached is the configuration I used.
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The bike is running fine. The motor is quiet but I still have 3 concerns:
1. The old GM internal controller seemed to deliver more power.
Could it be that it was set to more than the values I set the ecrazyman controller (rated=22A; phase=56A) ?
2. I have regen enabled in software. When I go in a steep downhill:
- If I press the brake I get segmented braking. Is the controller cutting the too high current ?
- If I press no brake I seem to get a very weak but still noticeable engine braking.
With the old controller when brakes were not used the wheel was completely neutral. Will it help if I disable the regen with the software ?
3. During descents, when I suddenly close the throttle (no brakes applied at all) I sometimes get a segmented noise from the motor as if something is knocking there ...
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I managed to resolve all problems.
1. Throttle regen problem was resolved by changing slip charge mode to "1" so now regen is totally disabled.
2. Power problem was resolved by a current setting of 26A. Now my ebike is a rocket !
So the attached setting is the final one.