GoldenMotor.com Forum
General Category => General Discussions => Topic started by: kent1956 on August 29, 2010, 07:08:40 AM
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Hi all,
I hope someone here can give me some information on this wheel/motor. It is a 16" solid cast wheel with a HBS-48V1000W hub motor. I bought it from a seller on ebay that was selling to off as a clearance item. Got a good price and it will fit my recumbent bike.
My question is, How do I brake this wheel? There is no mounting for a disk brake, and not enough rim for rim brakes. Is this supposed to be used with a regen/braking controller?
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http://www.e-mtb.com.au/screw-thread-to-is-brake-boss-adapter-p-221.html (http://www.e-mtb.com.au/screw-thread-to-is-brake-boss-adapter-p-221.html)
Would this be what youre after?
Look at the hub case is there a thread on the disc brake side?
(http://www.e-mtb.com.au/images/large/Screw_thread_to_IS_brake_boss.jpg)
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No, I don't see anything where a disc brake mounting boss would thread on.
Only the axle bolts.
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If its got no thread there like my the two hbs hubs I bought then I guess you have answered your won question. Regen should be the only way.
The 16 inch wheel should give you plenty of braking power.
These are called the 12 fet GM black regen controllers.
(http://goldenmotor.com/hubmotors/Regen%20Controller.jpg)
If you can get one of these it would be handy as it has variable regen off the throttle. It has no freewheel unless you disable it. But as you decelerate the regen increases. Which is what you would want to have no breaks.
Its not very wise to just use regen and we take no responsibility for your safety if regen fails to stop you when you most need it,
However those controllers if the controller fails or a hall sensor fails they usually slow to a stop pretty fast anyway.
I don't unserstand because all GM HBS motors have the housing there witht the thread, I cant see it wothout it there. Is it easy to provide pictures?
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The wires should exit from the left hand side.
Check out this post (http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=1669.msg8365#msg8365) for some more useful information on a scooter conversion.
Alan
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wire comes out the left hand side when siting on the bike facing forward, is that right?
That's correct!
You can see it clearly on Wayne's front wheel, picture taken from the left hand side of the bike:
(http://www.arhservices.co.uk/GoldenMotor/3832810310_6cca64dbe5_o.JPG)
Alan
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Hi all,
I hope someone here can give me some information on this wheel/motor. It is a 16" solid cast wheel with a HBS-48V1000W hub motor. I bought it from a seller on ebay that was selling to off as a clearance item. Got a good price and it will fit my recumbent bike.
My question is, How do I brake this wheel? There is no mounting for a disk brake, and not enough rim for rim brakes. Is this supposed to be used with a regen/braking controller?
Could you take a photo with your motor?
Our GM have disk brake can be intalled this motor.
My email address:tom@goldenmotor.com
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My email address:tom@goldenmotor.com
Email to me and you can get more information.
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I think this is what you are looking for:
http://www.goldenmotor.com/e-Bike-DIY/GoldenMotor%20Pro-Kit%20User%20Guide.pdf
Karen
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Just so you know you have the CapsLock key pressed
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Ouch my ears!
Sounded like a really loud ebay plug :)
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Ear plugs are no longer necessary as the SHOUTING has been sorted. ;)
Now with this 1000 watt rear wheel motor upgrade, plus the extra 4 batteries I fit under the seat. Now total 8 / 12ah batteries my range will be approx. 100 km on a single charge. With a max. Speed of 60 km per hour.
I suspect the figures may be slightly optimistic, especially if you are using lead acid batteries.
After charging 64V 60AH I did a testdrive with a lot of acceleration. After 75 km the battery was almost empty.
The topspeed is 65 km/h (GPS speed) .
If your running @ 96V 12Ah with a suitable controller, then 60km/h should be attainable, but a 20-25km range might be more realistic.
If your running @ 48V 24Ah then I think you would be lucky to get 45Km/h and a range of 40-50km.
Alan
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A 96v @ 60 kph if he had the amps flowing he should get faster than this. Try 70 kph.
Say his motor is shunted at 20 amps due to internal resistance, 70/60 ratio depicts he is only drawing say 17 amps. 12ah at 17 amps = 42 mins running time.
42 mins at 60kph = 42kms. This is just the quick math as we would need the true watts per km to define the true range.
See the SLA series battery can work as a shunt limiting the amount of current at the expense of a small loss of energy but past the battery divider it more open.. Still entire circuit resistance will be much higher and less efficient with SLA's but E is larger than R always until the batteries are flat.
Much more involved than trying to work it out with guesstimations.
100 kms. Not even close. 25kms nahh not enough range. 38 kms Hmmm a little closer.
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100 kms. Not even close. 25kms nahh not enough range. 38 kms Hmmm a little closer.
Maintaining a constant 60km/h would require around 1500 watts. If the motor was 70% efficient, you would need to supply 2150 watts to the motor in order to achieve the required output.
2150 watts / 96 Volts = 22.4 Amps.
12Ah at 22.4Amps = 32 minutes.
Now you also need to take into account the fact that most 12Ah lead acid batteries are not able to supply 12 Amps continuous for 1 Hour.
They are rated 12.0Ah @ 20hr-rate to 1.75V per cell @ 25°C (77°F), meaning it should supply 1/20 of its rating (0.6Amp) for 20 hours continuous if you're very lucky!
One battery that does not perform well at a 1C discharge rate is the portable sealed lead-acid. To obtain a reasonably good capacity reading, manufacturers commonly rate these batteries at 0.05C or 20 hour discharge. Even at this slow discharge rate, a 100% capacity is hard to attain. To compensate for different readings at various discharge currents, manufacturers offer a capacity offset. Applying the offset to correct the capacity readout does not improve battery performance; it merely adjusts the capacity calculation if discharged at a higher or lower C-rate than specified.
If it was discharged at a steady 12Amps, it would reach the Low Voltage Cutoff point (10.5V/battery) in less than 35 minutes (see attached graph), never mind 60 minutes!
If it was discharged at a steady 22.4Amps, I would anticipate it lasting 20-25 minutes maximum if you were lucky, which is why I estimated 20-25km range. ;)
A 12Ah lithium battery with a continuous 2C rating (24Amp) should be able to supply 22.4Amps for just over 32 minutes (32km range @ 60km/h).
Upon reflection, I think my estimated 20-25km range for a 96V 12Ah lead acid battery pack, is probably far too generous.
(http://www.arhservices.co.uk/GoldenMotor/emoticons/everyday_think_230608.GIF)
Alan
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100 kms. Not even close. 25kms nahh not enough range. 38 kms Hmmm a little closer.
Maintaining a constant 60km/h would require around 1500 watts. If the motor was 70% efficient, you would need to supply 2150 watts to the in order to achieve the required output.
2150 watts / 96 Volts = 22.4 Amps.
12Ah at 22.4Amps = 32 minutes.
Now you also need to take into account the fact that most 12Ah lead acid batteries are not able to supply 12 Amps continuous for 1 Hour.
They are rated 12.0Ah @ 20hr-rate to 1.75V per cell @ 25°C (77°F), meaning it should supply 1/20 of its rating (0.6Amp) for 20 hours continuous if you're very lucky!
One battery that does not perform well at a 1C discharge rate is the portable sealed lead-acid. To obtain a reasonably good capacity reading, manufacturers commonly rate these batteries at 0.05C or 20 hour discharge. Even at this slow discharge rate, a 100% capacity is hard to attain. To compensate for different readings at various discharge currents, manufacturers offer a capacity offset. Applying the offset to correct the capacity readout does not improve battery performance; it merely adjusts the capacity calculation if discharged at a higher or lower C-rate than specified.
If it was discharged at a steady 12Amps, it would reach the Low Voltage Cutoff point (10.5V/battery) in less than 35 minutes (see attached graph), never mind 60 minutes!
If it was discharged at a steady 22.4Amps, I would anticipate it lasting 20-25 minutes maximum if you were lucky, which is why I estimated 20-25km range. ;)
A 12Ah lithium battery with a continuous 2C rating (24Amp) should be able to supply 22.4Amps for just over 32 minutes (32km range @ 60km/h).
Upon reflection, I think my estimated 20-25km range for a 96V 12Ah lead acid battery pack, is probably far too generous.
(http://www.arhservices.co.uk/GoldenMotor/emoticons/everyday_think_230608.GIF)
Alan
48 volt 12 Ah / 4 large batteries SLA gelled batteries with stock 350/500 watt motor. 40 to 60 km riding range all day long on a single charge. 32 km per hour max. speed. thats a fact! I ride it every day! All you people first just check out the Gio scooter specs. sla glass matt batteries are the best bang for your buck at this time. all the others are still far to expensive. gel and glass matt sla batteries are super reliable, dirt cheap to buy, atbatteries.com , totaly memory free, and good for up to 4 years or 500+ recharges. how do you beat that? /peter
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100 kms. Not even close. 25kms nahh not enough range. 38 kms Hmmm a little closer.
Maintaining a constant 60km/h would require around 1500 watts. If the motor was 70% efficient, you would need to supply 2150 watts to the in order to achieve the required output.
2150 watts / 96 Volts = 22.4 Amps.
12Ah at 22.4Amps = 32 minutes.
Now you also need to take into account the fact that most 12Ah lead acid batteries are not able to supply 12 Amps continuous for 1 Hour.
They are rated 12.0Ah @ 20hr-rate to 1.75V per cell @ 25°C (77°F), meaning it should supply 1/20 of its rating (0.6Amp) for 20 hours continuous if you're very lucky!
One battery that does not perform well at a 1C discharge rate is the portable sealed lead-acid. To obtain a reasonably good capacity reading, manufacturers commonly rate these batteries at 0.05C or 20 hour discharge. Even at this slow discharge rate, a 100% capacity is hard to attain. To compensate for different readings at various discharge currents, manufacturers offer a capacity offset. Applying the offset to correct the capacity readout does not improve battery performance; it merely adjusts the capacity calculation if discharged at a higher or lower C-rate than specified.
If it was discharged at a steady 12Amps, it would reach the Low Voltage Cutoff point (10.5V/battery) in less than 35 minutes (see attached graph), never mind 60 minutes!
If it was discharged at a steady 22.4Amps, I would anticipate it lasting 20-25 minutes maximum if you were lucky, which is why I estimated 20-25km range. ;)
A 12Ah lithium battery with a continuous 2C rating (24Amp) should be able to supply 22.4Amps for just over 32 minutes (32km range @ 60km/h).
Upon reflection, I think my estimated 20-25km range for a 96V 12Ah lead acid battery pack, is probably far too generous.
(http://www.arhservices.co.uk/GoldenMotor/emoticons/everyday_think_230608.GIF)
Alan
48 VOLT 12 AH / 4 LARGE BATTERIES SLA GELLED BATTERIES WITH STOCK 350/500 WATT MOTOR. 40 TO 60 KM RIDING RANGE DEPENDS ON RIDER WEIGHT, AND HOW MANY HILLS, ALL DAY LONG OFF AND ON, ON A SINGLE CHARGE. 32 KM PER HOUR MAX. SPEED. THATS A FACT! I RIDE IT EVERY DAY! ALL YOU PEOPLE FIRST JUST CHECK OUT THE GIO SCOOTER SPECS.
SORRY ALAN, YOUR FACTS ARE IN ERROR. GIOS ARE FAR BETTER, MORE ADVANCED ELECTRIC SCOOTERS. GIOVANNI SCOOTERS ARE FASTER, BETTER, STRONGER, THAN ANYTHING ELSE ON THE MARKET. NOT TO MENTION THE COOLEST LOOKING. GIO SCOOTERS ARE SIMPLY THE BEST! COMPLETE FOR LESS THAN $500.00 BUCKS.
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Please Peter,
Why are you still shouting? :(
Why do you have to use such an aggressive tone? :(
Why do you post if you can’t take advices and criticisms? :(
I think your project is very interesting and looking forward to hear how it’s going, but please inform us in a quieter way? :-X
Peace :-*
Peter
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48 VOLT 12 AH / 4 LARGE BATTERIES SLA GELLED BATTERIES WITH STOCK 350/500 WATT MOTOR. 40 TO 60 KM RIDING RANGE ALL DAY LONG ON A SINGLE CHARGE. 32 KM PER HOUR MAX. SPEED. THATS A FACT! I RIDE IT EVERY DAY! ALL YOU PEOPLE FIRST JUST CHECK OUT THE GIO SCOOTER SPECS. BEFORE YOU PUT YOUR FEET IN YOUR MOUTHS.
Whoah dude you really love that thing?
Anyway no need to be a nasty pasty. I checked out the scooter specs and its just a china moped. Not bagging them I think they look tops however, they do come with a pretty chunky 12Ah SLA battery and also sorry to correct you but if I rode for 32Km/h then I would last 1.8Hrs by your above quote. So really riding all day I would need to go 2.5Km/h so then I would probably prefer to walk.
Anywho we are currently testing some of these models (different body, same insides) and the biggest you can fit in them is a 20Ah SLA or 30Ah Lithium battery that has to be custom cased to fit under the seat. Putting batteries in that 4mm thick abs plastic boot on the back will break on the first corner it took, that's if you can balance the bike with all of the weight in the back and lean forward so you have two wheels on the ground.
They go 32Km/h, its 350W continuous with a speed limiter switch that reduces the output power of the motor to comply with euro standard. Limited at 25km/h.
Weight is 65Kg and recommended rider weight is 70Kg - Max safe rider/gross weight is 100Kg
Headlight draws 6Amps. I asked my supplier if they also come in mens.
When I was a kid I could chew my big toe lol sounds gross but it was fun then.
Anyways peace man geez
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Maintaining a constant 60km/h would require around 1500 watts. If the motor was 70% efficient, you would need to supply 2150 watts to the in order to achieve the required output.
And where did you pull these figures out from?
Alan do you agree that a brushed motor is less efficient than a brushless?
I I show you a video of me doing 28 kms at 28kph on a 36v 12ah SLA brushed bike. Would you believe that a a 96v 12ah brushless could do 60 kph and make 38kms down the road. Cummon! ::)
My HBS with 6 mth old near dead 60v 36 kg SLAs and ecrazy sensorless controller hard shunted to 20 amps could do 58 kph in a heart beat. I have no Idea where you got 25 kms from. I honestly thought I was being harsh but your figures are like off this planet, Sorry but that was very harsh estimation on the poor SLA users,
You really underestimate the old SLA. My New 24ah SLA would own Lipos lol. They could put out 200 amps with no BMS to cry like a little baby if I wanted. They big freaking hunks of lead and when freshly cycled could get me 32 kms 50% dod.
Anyway. Who cares. as far as I can see you both got it wrong.
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Leo settle down man. Keep the Shouting and language down.
That scooter has fairings makes a huge difference on economy. Something most of here wouldnt understand.
I saw one moron go at a recumbent owner in another forum stating it was the most unaerodynamic design hed seen.m Its was low and sleek.
One recumbent owner here reports 7.7wh/km This eems a little small to me. But hey How woukld I know I don't own a recumbent so I STFU.
In fact pedal riders can get up to 89mph using wind fairings, wow I bet hes pushing 200kw into his pedals for like 5 kms to get to speed.
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Actually our GM AU dealer, hello where ever you are. :D does fairing for motor bikes. I really am hoping I can get a nose cone and some side bits to hide my knees behind from him soon for my ebike.. All our ebikes could do with some wind fairing IMO. The two arts electric bikes and wind fairing tech should be holding hands like Hansel and Gretel.
The electric motor king of efficiency and the iron-less axial flux motor made by us Aussies can do up to 98% efficiency has silver windings with the lowest resistance and maximum inductance for an iron-less motor. Pair that with some good aerodynamics and you have a recipe for one decent EV. Beat that cruel world.
I read stuff about those scooter owners changing to Lithium batts and their owners are like OMG My scooter is awesome like never before. They are big and clunky but weight really doesnt matter over the whole ride. As long as the batts can handle the added load any energy is stored in kinetics.
Kinetics is very efficient means of storing energy, better than Regen by miles.
My father a jockey had to be light for the poor horse to carry him, but when he gained the lbs he had to do horse cart trotts. As the finish line doesn't care about the drivers weight on the buggy... All the energy is stored very nicely. And don't go on about hills, What goes up must come down Newtons best law. GPE gravitational potential energy is another means of efficient storage energy too. From home (A) to destination (B) back home to A again you have to travel the same KMS up hills as you do down hills. The only room we have to gain for efficiency is wind fairing and or low rider recumbents, and iron-less stator is the last stage, I believe there is no where to go after this..
Congratulation world, We have done it. We just need to put it in a box and make it available to the general public..
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well that dude who said recumbent bikes are not aerodynamic is a tool
How is that possible? When you are leaning back the wind would be going mostly around you and less resistance because you are leaning back. It would be like leaning forward full road bicycle style that I think makes you look like a total nerdburger
I like recumbent bikes but not sure if they are allowed on aussie roads are they? I never see them on the road... Only ever seen 1 tricycle too in my whole area
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With 4 batteries, now when I add 4 more batteries plus a 1000 watt motor upgrade. Why should I not expect my speed and range come close to double? /peter
Because of the increase in wind resistance (drag) at speed, you would need to provide 8 times as much power in order to double your speed:
A car cruising on a highway at 50 mph (80 km/h) may require only 10 horsepower (7.5 kW) to overcome air drag, but that same car at 100 mph (160 km/h) requires 80 hp (60 kW). With a doubling of speed the drag (force) quadruples per the formula. Exerting four times the force over a fixed distance produces four times as much work. At twice the speed the work (resulting in displacement over a fixed distance) is done twice as fast. Since power is the rate of doing work, four times the work done in half the time requires eight times the power.
Simply doubling the available power will not double your speed.
If doubling the speed requires 8 times the power (as stated above) your run time will be reduced by a factor of 8 at the higher speed.
Doubling the batteries will double this run time to 1/4 of the original
So, if you can currently do 60km @ 30km/h (120mins run time) you should only expect to go 30km @ 60km/h (30mins run time)
If you double the capacity of the batteries and don't exceed 30km/h, you should be able to get almost double the range on the level.
The uphill range would be reduced due to the additional weight of the extra batteries.
Unfortunately (like most things in life) this is not as straightforward as it may first appear.
I look forward to seeing the actual results when you have finished.
Alan
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Maintaining a constant 60km/h would require around 1500 watts. If the motor was 70% efficient, you would need to supply 2150 watts to the in order to achieve the required output.
And where did you pull these figures out from?
Alan do you agree that a brushed motor is less efficient than a brushless?
Leslie,
These figures were approximated with the help of www.bikecalculator.com (http://www.bikecalculator.com/wattsMetric.html) (See attachment below.), and the 70% efficiency was estimated from one of the GM power curves.
Although I do agree that brushed motors are usually less efficient than brushless, a brushed motor running at its most efficient speed could still be more efficient than an overloaded brushless motor! ;)
Alan
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A 96v @ 60 kph if he had the amps flowing he should get faster than this. Try 70 kph.
Say his motor is shunted at 20 amps due to internal resistance, 70/60 ratio depicts he is only drawing say 17 amps. 12ah at 17 amps = 42 mins running time.
42 mins at 60kph = 42kms. This is just the quick math as we would need the true watts per km to define the true range.
See the SLA series battery can work as a shunt limiting the amount of current at the expense of a small loss of energy but past the battery divider it more open.. Still entire circuit resistance will be much higher and less efficient with SLA's but E is larger than R always until the batteries are flat.
Much more involved than trying to work it out with guesstimations.
100 kms. Not even close. 25kms nahh not enough range. 38 kms Hmmm a little closer.
Hmmm, I get over 40 km distance now with only 4 sla batteries and the stock 500 watt motor. thats a fact! you do not know what your talking about. /peter
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100 kms. Not even close. 25kms nahh not enough range. 38 kms Hmmm a little closer.
Maintaining a constant 60km/h would require around 1500 watts. If the motor was 70% efficient, you would need to supply 2150 watts to the in order to achieve the required output.
2150 watts / 96 Volts = 22.4 Amps.
12Ah at 22.4Amps = 32 minutes.
Now you also need to take into account the fact that most 12Ah lead acid batteries are not able to supply 12 Amps continuous for 1 Hour.
They are rated 12.0Ah @ 20hr-rate to 1.75V per cell @ 25°C (77°F), meaning it should supply 1/20 of its rating (0.6Amp) for 20 hours continuous if you're very lucky!
One battery that does not perform well at a 1C discharge rate is the portable sealed lead-acid. To obtain a reasonably good capacity reading, manufacturers commonly rate these batteries at 0.05C or 20 hour discharge. Even at this slow discharge rate, a 100% capacity is hard to attain. To compensate for different readings at various discharge currents, manufacturers offer a capacity offset. Applying the offset to correct the capacity readout does not improve battery performance; it merely adjusts the capacity calculation if discharged at a higher or lower C-rate than specified.
If it was discharged at a steady 12Amps, it would reach the Low Voltage Cutoff point (10.5V/battery) in less than 35 minutes (see attached graph), never mind 60 minutes!
If it was discharged at a steady 22.4Amps, I would anticipate it lasting 20-25 minutes maximum if you were lucky, which is why I estimated 20-25km range. ;)
A 12Ah lithium battery with a continuous 2C rating (24Amp) should be able to supply 22.4Amps for just over 32 minutes (32km range @ 60km/h).
Upon reflection, I think my estimated 20-25km range for a 96V 12Ah lead acid battery pack, is probably far too generous.
(http://www.arhservices.co.uk/GoldenMotor/emoticons/everyday_think_230608.GIF)
Alan
YOUR DEAD WRONG ALAN! I GET DOUBLE THAT RANGE NOW AS WE SPEAK. WITH ONLY 4 BATTERIES AND 500 WATT MOTOR. THATS A FACT! SO PLEASE KEEP YOUR STUPID IN ERROR GUESSTAMATES TO YOURSELF. TOMORROW ARE YOU GOING TO COME UP WITH SOME OTHER NEW MATH? YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT ALAN. /peter
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YOUR DEAD WRONG ALAN! I GET DOUBLE THAT RANGE NOW AS WE SPEAK. WITH ONLY 4 BATTERIES AND 500 WATT MOTOR. THATS A FACT! SO PLEASE KEEP YOUR STUPID IN ERROR GUESSTAMATES TO YOURSELF. TOMORROW ARE YOU GOING TO COME UP WITH SOME OTHER NEW MATH? YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT ALAN. /peter
Since I don't know what you're talking about, even after reading it all, does this have anything to do with Golden Motor?
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48 VOLT 12 AH / 4 LARGE BATTERIES SLA GELLED BATTERIES WITH STOCK 350/500 WATT MOTOR. 40 TO 60 KM RIDING RANGE ALL DAY LONG ON A SINGLE CHARGE. 32 KM PER HOUR MAX. SPEED. THATS A FACT! I RIDE IT EVERY DAY! ALL YOU PEOPLE FIRST JUST CHECK OUT THE GIO SCOOTER SPECS. BEFORE YOU PUT YOUR FEET IN YOUR MOUTHS.
Whoah dude you really love that thing?
Anyway no need to be a nasty pasty. I checked out the scooter specs and its just a china moped. Not bagging them I think they look tops however, they do come with a pretty chunky 12Ah SLA battery and also sorry to correct you but if I rode for 32Km/h then I would last 1.8Hrs by your above quote. So really riding all day I would need to go 2.5Km/h so then I would probably prefer to walk.
Anywho we are currently testing some of these models (different body, same insides) and the biggest you can fit in them is a 20Ah SLA or 30Ah Lithium battery that has to be custom cased to fit under the seat. Putting batteries in that 4mm thick abs plastic boot on the back will break on the first corner it took, that's if you can balance the bike with all of the weight in the back and lean forward so you have two wheels on the ground.
They go 32Km/h, its 350W continuous with a speed limiter switch that reduces the output power of the motor to comply with euro standard. Limited at 25km/h.
Weight is 65Kg and recommended rider weight is 70Kg - Max safe rider/gross weight is 100Kg
Headlight draws 6Amps. I asked my supplier if they also come in mens.
When I was a kid I could chew my big toe lol sounds gross but it was fun then.
Anyways peace man geez
do not even think about putting batteries in the trunk. I said under the seat. 4 - 12ah batteries fit perfect under the seat. first wire them together, then duck tape them all together, then wrap them in 3/8" dense foam, then duck tape all around the foam, then get a peice of 1/16"x 5"x 12"inches aluminum sheet metal, then drill 2 holes where the lower seat pan bolts are located, then bend the aluminum to contour to the bottom of the seat pan and line up with the mud guard bracket mounting hole, then drill 1 hole to conect to that bracket. then tape or glue on 3/8 foam to the new renforcing aluminum plate, this will soften any impact, stuff extra foam around the compartment to keep it from any movement, now you are all set, NO WELDING, NO TAPPING. AND, FOR LESS THAN A COUPLE OF BUCKS. its now super supported, super strong, its the perfect solution for adding 4 more batteries under your seat on the GIO SCOOTER. I should apply for a patend.
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Your smart, tell me more. /peter
Im as stupid as I am smart. I make as many mistakes as the rest of us here if not more. Maybe the correct term is I am obsessed with ebike tech and I learn by my mistakes, I learn so much. ::) So much mistakes.
I casn only give my experience with SLA as Ive used them for too long.
Ive found that most SLA's on a direct drive high power hub fail within a month. I had to go to a 24ah EV series battery.
Try looking at Ritar as they use a combination of AGM and Mulriple Gel in all their EV type batteries, they use the GEL to fill the air spaces inside.
Or I think Fullriver batteries do the Mulriple thing too. But they must be EV type batteries. For daily use this is still inadequate but for the weekend rides the SLA is quite acceptable..
Other than that most SLA wont do you much good on GM hubs.
Want more.?
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Just so you know you have the CapsLock key pressed
Who cares?
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YOUR DEAD WRONG ALAN! I GET DOUBLE THAT RANGE NOW AS WE SPEAK. WITH ONLY 4 BATTERIES AND 500 WATT MOTOR. THATS A FACT! SO PLEASE KEEP YOUR STUPID IN ERROR GUESSTAMATES TO YOURSELF. TOMORROW ARE YOU GOING TO COME UP WITH SOME OTHER NEW MATH? YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT ALAN. /peter
Since I don't know what you're talking about, even after reading it all, does this have anything to do with Golden Motor?
Yes, what do you want to know? Beware of alans mostly bogus advice. /peter
So your whole reason for posting is to assail Alan's advice?
I doubt that's what brought you here.
What do you really want?
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YOUR DEAD WRONG ALAN! I GET DOUBLE THAT RANGE NOW AS WE SPEAK. WITH ONLY 4 BATTERIES AND 500 WATT MOTOR. THATS A FACT! SO PLEASE KEEP YOUR STUPID IN ERROR GUESSTAMATES TO YOURSELF. TOMORROW ARE YOU GOING TO COME UP WITH SOME OTHER NEW MATH? YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT ALAN. /peter
Since I don't know what you're talking about, even after reading it all, does this have anything to do with Golden Motor?
Yes, what do you want to know? Beware of alans mostly bogus advice. /peter
So your whole reason for posting is to assail Alan's advice?
I doubt that's what brought you here.
What do you really want?
HIS ADVICE IS WRONG! HE CHANGES HIS OPINION EVERY DAY. A DOUBLE MINDED MAN IS UNSTABLE IN ALL HIS THOUGHTS! JUST WHAT IS YOUR QUESTION? /peter
What advice? My opinion of you is based on what you say.
If you read the archives, you can learn a lot here. You have to pick through a lot of posts to find the gems you need, but it's worth it if you have, or want to have a Golden Motor product.
I think you don't own, or want to own, a GM product.
You came here asking us to look at your wonderful purchase of a different brand, and insulted everyone here. Are you legitimate? Or are you just a troll?
There used to be a competition among trolls to see how many replys they could generate with the very type of posts you bring here. Franky, in that department your skills are lacking. You haven't enraged anyone. You have only attacked. Your skills are weak and trivial.
Are you contributing anything to this forum, or are you just a troll?
Too bad you can't find a forum for the product you bought. They could massage your manhood and tell you that you made the right choice. In this forum, you'll find people interested in helping others. If you look hard enough, you'll even find fools like yourself who believe it is better to cut other people down. But I doubt you'll find satisfaction. People here are smarter than you think.
I don't think people here will keep you entertained by answering an endless thread full of your insults.
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JUST WHAT THE ____ IS YOUR QUESTION? /peter
Do you have a Golden Motor product?
What do you want to know about it?
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JUST WHAT THE ____ IS YOUR QUESTION? /peter
Do you have a Golden Motor product?
What do you want to know about it?
yes I do own a gm motor. I know enough! what the hell do you know about them? more ____ facts like alan? just buy a gio scooter and your life will improve. trust me? what do you want to know? exactly what? /peter
You own a GM motor? Which one? What's your question about it?
You bought a gio scooter, and now I should too? Would that make you feel like you made the right choice?
I bought a Magic Pie when they first came out. It's on my MTB, and I'm happy. Sorry you're not.
Would it make you feel better if you made everyone else as unhappy as you are?
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Please, post some pictures of your scooter.
Best regards
Peter
Citizen of the Kingdom of Sweden
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The Police pull those GIO things over all the time here. They expect them to be registered. Sure they can be legal with pedals and things.
I used to race one and beat it all the time and I got talking to the man who owned it and he asked if I ever was bothered by the law. And I said nope. He told me he was being fined and harassed by the police. Each policeman he encountered had their own opinions of the Scooter. You know, Once the law thinks something there aint much you can do to convince them otherwise.
Best to have a bicycle and not confuse Police me thinks. I still think some wind fairings would be nice on an MTB.
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Yep absolutely, its the width of those particular ones that's the problem.
With no disrespect what so ever, the wider models such as the gio are not comfortable to ride at all
Plus the fact that these things don't have any gearing on the pedals so you can only pedal at a very high gear ratio (to help on a hill)
I think they are still based on a bicycle-ish type frame, this is the model I am currently testing they are the same thing because those hub motors & controllers are part of a pretty standard line
This one is heaps skinnier and feels like a bike, I've got a black and a silver one at the moment and they have front drum brake, and rear band brake so they would need to be serviced at a motorcycle repair shop really if you didn't know what you were doing
Anyway I don't want to modify them because they will sell well (and legal) as is. The controller has a power limiter on a switch under the handlebars that limits the controller to 25km/h and will comply with oz
I much prefer my MP though!
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Technology is too much for some people to manage.
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Spot on there ;)
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Yes width, that was my thoughts when I would speed up from behind this GIO bike.
You have better comfort pedaling a horse. Id imagine chafing happening, the pedals were an attempt to make them appear legal IMO.
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Peter,
If you are new to this forum you will probably be unaware as to how in depth the knowledge goes here for many of the regular posters. If you don’t agree with someone that is fine. That is what brings on interesting conversation. If there is any question you have or advise to give, please feel free to get it out there. Just try to be a little more respectful of the other members of this and any other forum you visit.
I have ridden on the Stanly park path many times in the past as I used to live on Davie street. I hope to ride it again some day. We do have some fantastic Bicycle paths here as well in southern Ontario. Hopefully you can ride them someday as well.
Enjoy the Ride!
Gary
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The Police pull those GIO things over all the time here. They expect them to be registered. Sure they can be legal with pedals and things.
I used to race one and beat it all the time and I got talking to the man who owned it and he asked if I ever was bothered by the law. And I said nope. He told me he was being fined and harassed by the police. Each policeman he encountered had their own opinions of the Scooter. You know, Once the law thinks something there aint much you can do to convince them otherwise.
Best to have a bicycle and not confuse Police me thinks. I still think some wind fairings would be nice on an MTB.
Not in vancouver, I was stopped once by a motorcycle cop. All he wanted to know was where I got it and how much I paid for it. His wife heard of them, and wanted one to do daily errands. Without having to use her suv. All vancouver cops know gio scooters are legal. What I know for a fact is that gio scooters are the most comfortable scooter I have ever riden. They ride like a magic carpet. Wider body makes it more comfortable for the leg room. Not to mention excellent balance. That little orange scooter pictured would be great! Mabey for my 12 year old daughter. /peter
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I saw one moron go at a recumbent owner in another forum stating it was the most unaerodynamic design hed seen.m Its was low and sleek.
Hi, forgive my ignorance, but what is a recumbent bike? /peter
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Whoah dude you really love that thing?
I checked out the scooter specs and its just a china moped. Not bagging them I think they look tops however, they do come with a pretty chunky 12Ah SLA battery and also sorry to correct you but if I rode for 32Km/h then I would last 1.8Hrs by your above quote. So really riding all day I would need to go 2.5Km/h so then I would probably prefer to walk.
Anywho we are currently testing some of these models (different body, same insides) and the biggest you can fit in them is a 20Ah SLA or 30Ah Lithium battery that has to be custom cased to fit under the seat. Putting batteries in that 4mm thick abs plastic boot on the back will break on the first corner it took, that's if you can balance the bike with all of the weight in the back and lean forward so you have two wheels on the ground.
They go 32Km/h, its 350W continuous with a speed limiter switch that reduces the output power of the motor to comply with euro standard. Limited at 25km/h.
Weight is 65Kg and recommended rider weight is 70Kg - Max safe rider/gross weight is 100Kg
Headlight draws 6Amps. I asked my supplier if they also come in mens.
On a gio, when you upgrade to a 1000 watt gm motor. You scrap the speed limiter, then replace the controller. Order an external usb interface from gary. Now you can dial in the perfect balance between your motor power with your battery power on your laptop. /peter
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Leo;
the seat on a recumbant bike is directly in front (usually) of the
rear wheel.
The pedals, on the other hand, are usually far in front of the
steering mechanism (handlebars)
When you sit on (in) a recumbant bike your feet are level(ish) with
your bottom.
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Leo;
the seat on a recumbant bike is directly in front (usually) of the
rear wheel.
The pedals, on the other hand, are usually far in front of the
steering mechanism (handlebars)
When you sit on (in) a recumbant bike your feet are level(ish) with
your bottom.
Oh, now I know, I have seen them around. but they are pedal bikes are they not? not electric? right? /peter
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Leo;
the seat on a recumbant bike is directly in front (usually) of the
rear wheel.
The pedals, on the other hand, are usually far in front of the
steering mechanism (handlebars)
When you sit on (in) a recumbant bike your feet are level(ish) with
your bottom.
Thanks for the info. Your cool!
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Peter, maybe you could try the GIO forum at
http://gioebike.dailyforum.net
It does look a little boring, bragging about 100 members "WooHoo" but most likely you will find people that aggree with your thoughts.
Gary
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My eyes are always to tired to see logic all the time so I try to keep an open mind of how I perceive others positions and try to behave..
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I think I didnt see everything he was posting that would get Alan in such a mood. Alan was editing the shouting and stuff out of his posts as it seems.
I see Alan edited my last post in this thread. Probably a good idea as well.
Gary
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Oh I think I missed that one :S hehe
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Oh I think I missed that one :S hehe
Good thing, I think I was even starting to send out the torpedoes! Sheesh usually I'm so calm, I don't ever recall being edited before. Now If I can just get Alan to fix my typos!
Gary
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Hello all!
Did a complete overhaul on my bike! Have a look at the new Dual Pie JoyEbike II. I think its a much cleaner install then last time. This time I put the second 48v12ah battery in the trailor and I added another. Yup thats right, I now have three 48v12ah batteries pushing my pies. I can now ride the bike with one battery and then when I need the extra power to go the distance I can simply hook up to my trailor. Today I was designing a mount inside the trailor to secure the batteries and thought "why design for two when four would fit perfectly here".
Gary
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Monkey wonders how cheap Gary is getting these things for!
;)
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Monkey wonders how cheap Gary is getting these things for!
;)
That's the thing. They seem to be free. I just go to my inventory, take one of the shelf, add it to my bike and no transaction is made. :P
Gary
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Well I really hope your wife is not your bookkeeper then... If she is, and you have possibly been having terrible dinners, then you know why now... ;)
hehe
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Interesting discussion going on here. And I thought I was just going to get info on braking....
Well my next problem is what tires and tubes to get for my HBS-48V1000W solid wheel. I've looked at all the web pages at Golden Motors. I've looked at the information you all have suggested, and I have not seen any specs as to what tires are required. I ordered some 16 x 2 1/2 and got some very large tires and tubes. So now I know for a fact that that size will not fit my hub/motor/wheel.
Can any of the fine GM sellers tell me what tires and tubes I need please.
Thanks.
Also I will need to buy the controller and associated equipment for this motor. I find lots of complete kits available, can I just purchase the parts I need? And please give me the recommendations of what I need.
I am thinking of using the Canadian GM seller as the American one does not list parts at all. In fact the America GM site is very sparse on information. Just my observation, not trying to condemn any one here.
Thanks all.
Kent
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Hi Kent
If you follow this link it shows a brief thread on rim and tire widths.
Gary
http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=2308.0
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Hi Kent
If you follow this link it shows a brief thread on rim and tire widths.
Gary
http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=2308.0
I appreciate the reply Gary, but it really doesn't answer my question. I guess one of the things I am disappointed about the GM web sites is the lack of information. On this matter a simple chart showing what tires fit what GM supplied rims would provide the information I am looking for.
The link you gave does not cover what tire I need. Sorry to be so dumb, but I am not a tire expert, nor a dealer. I really would hope that dealers of GM products would have the answers to such questions.
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Well my next problem is what tires and tubes to get for my HBS-48V1000W solid wheel. I've looked at all the web pages at Golden Motors. I've looked at the information you all have suggested, and I have not seen any specs as to what tires are required. I ordered some 16 x 2 1/2 and got some very large tires and tubes. So now I know for a fact that that size will not fit my hub/motor/wheel.
Hi Kent, sounds like that's a motorcycle tyre and tube instead of a bicycle one.
On a motorcycle with a 16" rim, the 16" relates to the tyre bead diameter (the inner diameter of the tyre), but on a push bike it relates to the overall tyre size (the outer diameter of the tyre).
The widest I've been able to find to suit that wheel is a pricey 16 x 3.0 Stingray tire (http://cgi.ebay.com/160466281262) on eBay.
The cheaper, more common sized 16 x 2.125 (62-305) bicycle tyres may look a bit narrow for that rim, but they will actually fit.
A 12" moped tyre (http://cgi.ebay.com/180467095821) appears to be the same internal diameter as the 16" bicycle tyre so it should fit the rim too.
Hope this helps.
Alan
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I appreciate the reply Gary, but it really doesn't answer my question. I guess one of the things I am disappointed about the GM web sites is the lack of information. On this matter a simple chart showing what tires fit what GM supplied rims would provide the information I am looking for.
The link you gave does not cover what tire I need. Sorry to be so dumb, but I am not a tire expert, nor a dealer. I really would hope that dealers of GM products would have the answers to such questions.
I know what you are saying. I fight that battle everyday. That is why I come to the forum where the real experts are. I forward alot of people here and some think I am trying to brush them off. The reality is I am just trying to help them get the correct answers.
Any information I have on my site was either sourced at the Main GM site or here in the forums. There is little information I can get from GM directly other then price and availability and even that is a challenge at times.
Gary
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Gary,
Thanks mate, and I do like your web site. So far it is the better GM site I have looked at. Keep up the good work.
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Just a note to share my tire education. I have found out that 16 x 2.5 tire means three different things.
I did a google search and then making a purchase of tires and tubes listed as 16 x 2.5. When I received them I found them to have a 16" ID rather than a 16" OD.
In looking at tire sizing I found three different ways of sizing.
Tires are measured by:
A. Overall diameter, normally given in inches, but can be in mm. approximate diameters, so 16" could be 15 7/8" actual dimension.
B. Section width in inches or mm. Width of the widest part of the tire.
C. Normal rim diameter, normally given in inches but can be given in mm. Measure of the diameter of the bead width, or overall rim width. Different manufacturers reference differently.
D. Section height. Often given as a percentage of the section width.
So we have the sizing we see on automotive tires such as,
250/70-16
Which is (B)250/(D)70-(C)16 or the section width is 250mm, the section height is 70% of the width or 175mm and the rim diameter is 16".
Most motorcycle tires are listed in the same way as automotive tires. Example: 130/70x12 which is 130mm wide by 91mm high for a 12" rim.
Now bicycle tires are different. They most often are just measured by overall diameter and width. Example: 26x1 1/2, which is overall diameter 26" with overall width 1 1/2".
A x B x C 16 x 6.5 x 8
B/D-C 410/3.50-10
A x B 20 x 2.125
Now isn't that all so very clear? Yea, right!
And to make it even simpler, every manufacturer can have their own specific sizing. They can be a few mm difference and a tire with the same size markings can be too loose or too tight for the rim you are trying to fit.
I see three real options here to properly fit your tire. One buy the exact same tire your bike came with. Accept no substitutes. Which may mean you end up buying low quality fast wearing tires all the time. On my bicycles I like using high quality, high pressure tires, so fitting can be an issue.
2. Always take in your old tire or rim into the store for proper sizing. Once you find a store that carries your size stick with them.
3. Get on the phone and talk to the people who sell the tires and know their brands. Have the actual dimensions of your rim and tire (if you have one). They should know their stock, if they don't go to some one else.
What I have found for the GM HBS 16 x 2.5 is that this is a common size for mobility scooters. And there seems to be a limited supply of them. In fact I am having to go to Canadian stores to buy them.
I would think that some stores that sell GM equipment would have at least a supply for these....just a hint you GM dealers....People buying GM equipment want and need a store that can be our go to store for all things GM. Even if you just advertise the parts needed and set up a drop ship relationship with a supplier (a nice arrangement as you don't have to purchase inventory and make a sellers commission on each part sold through you...)
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Stocking tires would be another large investment with little or no profit. I buy my tires at Canadian Tire, its simple and cheap. I appreciate your input but it would just be another avenue for complainers. How could it ever compete with Canadian Tire or Walmart on price or selection. Granted some of the odd tires are hard to find. But I have yet to have someone ask me for one.
Gary
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Gary,
I understand about stocking items. Have you considered being a selling agent? I know of a tire seller that does that. They offer hundreds of tires for sale, act as an agent, place the orders for the customer and the supplier drop ships them. Here is one such seller I bought from before, http://www.everybicycletire.com they advertise that they can sell about 800 tires.
And yes, I looked there for the tire for the GM HBS cast 16" wheel. They don't have it. I ordered a Schwalbe 16 x 1.75 tire from them for my recumbent. I found out it was a drop ship direct from Schwalbe USA when I requested info regarding shipping.
All I'm suggesting here is that you as a GM dealer and other dealers could serve their GM customers by doing some of the leg work, or post what other customers find, such as myself, on your web site so other customers looking for the same product (16 x 2.5 tires) come to you first.
I worked at Home Depot for eight years in the electrical and fan/lighting departments. I am an electrician by trade. I had customers tell me that they always came to my store and to me when shopping for electrical items, because I always sold them the right product for their needs or if we didn't stock it, sent them to the correct supply house to get it. I think there is a grain of wisdom there for the GM dealers.
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Hmm I would have to agree highly with Gary here...
Stocking tires would be pretty big problem considering GM do not actually stock tires for all of their models, and do not sell them.
All I'm suggesting here is that you as a GM dealer and other dealers could serve their GM customers by doing some of the leg work, or post what other customers find, such as myself, on your web site so other customers looking for the same product (16 x 2.5 tires) come to you first.
As for the 3rd part agent. Imagine if you had problems with your shipping of your tire. I'm pretty sure the first call would be straight to the dealer. Tire ranges and user preferences also vary so greatly that the extra 'leg' work going on. I think legs might end up broken lol
Anyways that's my thought. I can perfectly see where you are coming from Kent; however, I myself am in a similar situation trying to source a tire I prefer for my cast 20" wheels! So no offense mate :)
I want a slick 3" wide tire for these rims but will have to take the wheel to the shop as standard 20" wheels are too big for them. Also my front rim is slightly bigger than the rear so that throws in another variable haha I'm leaving the tire problems to the tire dealer the poor bloke
:D
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I found a tire that will fit the GM HBS 16" cast wheel from a seller in California. No one at home has them, interesting, considering all the mobility scooters sold in Florida.
(http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-29609579400243_2125_1660949)
16" x 2.5" Tire and Tube Set (http://www.ehandygadgets.com/16x25quot-tire-and-tube1625.html)
The seller is www.ehandygadgets.com (http://www.ehandygadgets.com/) Scott there was very quick to respond to my inquiry regarding inner diameter of the tire they have and they have a tire and tube set for only $21. Not the highest quality tire I am sure at that price, but a tire that will fit the rim properly.
It still would be great if GM listed all associated parts on their web site for each kit they sell.
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It still would be great if GM listed all associated parts on their web site for each kit they sell.
I think another thing you maybe overlooking is there are no associated parts that go with our kits. Normally when someone buys a kit it is to go on an existing bike. So the conversion involves removing a wheel from the existing bike, taking the tire off and installing it on the new motorized wheel. Then installing the new motorized wheel and controls on the bike. There are no additional parts required.
Anyway Im glad you found a tire. Something else to think about is that if its this difficult to find a tire, then that shows how little demand there is.
Take Care
Gary
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Gary,
thanks again for the reply. I think the matter of finding this tire is that it is a rarely used size. Most bikes today use the 26" tire, I think the next most used size would be 20". So I would also think that ebike wheels would be most common in those two sizes as well.
I have one of the least common bikes on the market, a lwb recumbent with a 16" front wheel and 20" rear wheel. I have found the only vehicle using the 16 x 2.5 tire/wheel to be mobility scooters an even smaller market.
Recumbents are a growing market, but still way smaller than other bikes. So I am used to having a hard time finding parts.
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Hey Kent
Is there a picture in the forum of your bike? I would centainly like to see it.
Gary
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Hey Leslie, was that ride with those numbers on your 20" beast?
If not, the wheel size makes a massive difference don't you agree?
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I think they are still based on a bicycle-ish type frame, this is the model I am currently testing they are the same thing because those hub motors & controllers are part of a pretty standard line