Author Topic: VEC500 sudden stop  (Read 5020 times)

Offline UEzon

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VEC500 sudden stop
« on: August 04, 2017, 09:36:27 AM »
We have built a houseboat 11.5x4.2M on a catamaranhull, driven by 2pcs 10kW GM watercooled motors, 2pcs VEC500, 4x12V 200Ah AGM batt., 2.5kW solarpanels
on the roof, 250W 12V solarpanels and 250Ah batt. for the lights, pumps and instruments.
It all works (almost) just fine, 2.8-3kn without any help from the batteries in clear sunlight. But after 1-1,5 hour one motor stops, not the same motor every time. It starts again if I pull the trottle to zero and turn it on again....
The the coolingwater is max 30C. Is there any other problem then high temp that can cause this to happens. Dips in the power from the batteries? I have put the "Low voltage protection" to 38V. If it is dips in the batteryvoltage that causes the problem, can I cure it with disable of "Clear undervoltage state while trottle is off"?
Any other suggestions?? Capacitor-bank direct on the VEC500 maybe?

/UE

Offline Bikemad

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Re: VEC500 sudden stop
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2017, 01:52:54 PM »
Do you have a voltmeter to see exactly what voltage the batteries are reading at the beginning of your trip, and also just before the motor cuts out?

Do you have an ammeter to measure the actual current being drawn from the batteries?

Do the controllers cut out under light load or only under heavy load?

What is the maximum battery drawn current settings on the controllers?

If the controllers are cutting out because the battery voltage is too low (which is what they appear to be doing) it may be due to one of the following:
  • The batteries are completely exhausted (100% discharged) and the controllers are simply protecting the batteries from being further discharged
  • The batteries are unable to produce sufficient current for the motors without excessive voltage drop (current draw exceeds their maximum discharge current)
  • The main battery wires are too thin to carry the required current over the length of wires(resulting a significant voltage drop under load)
  • A poor battery terminal or controller wiring connection

I think that disabling the "Clear undervoltage state while throttle off" would mean that you wouldn't be able to use the motors again once they had cut out due to low voltage without powering off the controllers and turning them back on again.   :(
It's much easier to simply throttle back to reset the under voltage condition. ;)

As you are using Lead Acid batteries, it might be worth setting the "Low voltage triggering current reducing (V)" to (48V) to try and extend the remaining 30~40% battery capacity, but I don't know how much it actually reduces to current by.  ::)

Bear in mind that 200Ah lead acid batteries will be able to supply 10Amps continuously over a 20 hour period (C/20), but they will not deliver 200A continuously for a whole hour (1C):(



If you look at the above graph you can see that when discharged completely over a 1 hour period, the actual capacity is only around 62% of the rated capacity (~124Ah for a 20Ah battery).

Completely discharging a 200Ah battery over 90 minutes would obtain a maximum capacity of ~140Ah @ ~93Amps continuous current draw.

If your motors were drawing a constant 50 amps each (a combined power consumption of 4.8kW, with a total combined power output of just over 5HP @ 80% efficiency) your battery would last less than 90 minutes on battery power alone (assuming it was fully charged to begin with).

Also, discharging your batteries to 38V (9.5V per each 12V battery) is very bad for lead acid batteries, and it is likely to reduce the number of battery cycles available before the batteries need to be replaced.

I suggest 42V should be the minimum value for the low voltage protection setting with 48V lead acid batteries.  ;)

Alan
 
« Last Edit: August 04, 2017, 01:56:41 PM by Bikemad »

Offline UEzon

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Re: VEC500 sudden stop
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2017, 09:22:22 PM »
Hi Alan and thanks for the reply.
I have a Victron BMV702 to monitor the batteries. I know that 38V is far to low, I just tried it to check if that was the problem. I have never been under 48V on the batteries after running a few hours. The cutout can come even around 49V. Current drawn from the batteries during a normal speed is 20-25A, less in clear sun. I have never been over 40A in currentconsumtion. Max current settings is 200A. Batterycables are 35mm2, to each motor, about 3M long. Next trip I will check if there is any voltagedrop between the battery and the motors. I will try to change the "Low voltage triggering current reducing". The batteries have always been fully loaded when we start  55-55.5V

Regards /Urban E

Offline Rusina

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Re: VEC500 sudden stop
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2017, 06:50:57 AM »
Hello,
I had exactly the same symptom during my tests with 200 Ah of AGM batteries (GM engine 10 KW + VEC500). Since I moved to a lithium park, the problem is no longer present, I can sail hours, (up to 7 hours in the day, lately) without interruption ...
I can not explain why exactly, but that is a finding.
Nautical regards.

Offline Bikemad

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Re: VEC500 sudden stop
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2017, 03:17:52 PM »
Since I moved to a lithium pack, the problem is no longer present, I can sail hours, (up to 7 hours in the day, lately) without interruption ...

I thought the "cutting out" problem was still happening after you upgraded to the lithium battery pack:

I also installed 20 kW of Lithium batteries and there it is full satisfaction, as they recharge in a couple of hours only with my photovoltaic cover.
On the other hand I can not exceed a speed of 5 km / h: when I push the potentiometer more, it is safe
.

Are you now able to exceed 5km/h without it cutting out?  If so, could it be that a change of controller settings has actually made a difference?

Did you alter any of the settings to match the settings that I had previously suggested?

Alan
 

Offline Rusina

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Re: VEC500 sudden stop
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2017, 06:47:54 AM »
Hi Alan,
These days I was marrying my son and obviously I was both busy and less of my boat, which kept me from following this discussion.
 
I thus represent to you things historically:
1) with the old AGM batteries, the controller warmed up and was safe enough fast, especially at each fast acceleration.
2) After having created a water heat exchanger on the controller, the time of use, but at low speed, improved to about 1h30 without shutdown, but by monitoring the temperature, shutting down at each rapid acceleration.
3) After switching to the LiPo4 batteries, the operating time is no longer important but always below 90 ° for the controller; Safety at every rapid acceleration.
4) For your tuning tips, the controller software did not accept them except for the basics (rpm, voltage batteries ...)
5) After reversing the wiring to turn the motor in the conventional direction, we gained a little speed, but as soon as we push the potentiometer suddenly or too far, the cut still takes place.
6) I ordered new double gears to get a bigger reduction, which will increase the speed of the engine while lightening its load, and I think it will solve things, even if my power consumption will aggravate.
As soon as it's done, I'll let you know.
Nautical regards.