New inboard project

[Lollandster]

Quick update:
I have mostly played with the controller lately and since it isn't a GM controller I won't post about it too much here.

The motor came from GM Canada in one piece, no problems (except for the Norwegian customs being very slow).
The motor came with two hoses for the cooling at about 1 meter each. The hoses and their connectors look like standard pneumatic 8mm hoses, so that is going to be easy to find.

The hall effect sensor cable happen to have the exact same connector as the one on the Kelly controller. It was simple Plug and Play. And with the automatic hall identification feature of the controller I could connect the phase wires as I pleased with no worries.

The motor did not make as much noise as I feared (It probably helps that the controller is sinusoidal while the controllers used in all the youtube videos probably aren't). I haven't tried it under load yet.

I expect to have the boat on dry land by the end of the month. I'll find out if I can keep the propeller then and also find out how exactly to do the cooling.

[Lollandster]

I didn't work on this project last year, but now I'm back on it.
I made a small dummy shaft to simulate the propeller shaft and used the laser cutter at work to cut ot a wooden prototype of the future motor fixture.
Attached is a photograph of my proof of concept.

[Rusina]

Hello everyone,
I would like to know 2 or 3 more things about my GM 10 kW.
1) there are two identical sockets multi-contactors (black cable) that come out of the motor, why?
2) there is a "cruise" connector coming out of the controller, what is it for? And how to use it?
Thank you for your kind response.
Nautical regards.

[Bikemad]

1) The 10, 15 and 20kW motors have twin stator assemblies, which means there are two separate sets of phase windings and wires and two sets of Hall sensors and wires.
Both sets of phase wires must be connected to the controller, but only one Hall sensor connector needs to be used.
The other unused connector is basically a spare, which can quickly be utilised in the event of a hall sensor failure by simply unplugging the failed sensor's connector and plugging in the unused connector instead.

2) The Cruise connector is a very basic cruise control function (throttle hold) which comes in handy on car and motorcycle conversions, but I don't suppose it will be of much use in a boat conversion as you probably have a friction type throttle that stays where you set it anyway.

On a car or bike the cruise wire would connect to ground (B-) via a momentary push switch that you simply press (and release) while the throttle is in the required position, and the motor will then continue to run at the set throttle position even though the throttle is released.
The cruise function is cancelled by either pressing the cruise button again, or applying the brakes.

Alan
 

[Rusina]

Thank you Alan, for your explanations clear and precise.
Another question to which, you could perhaps answer:
I have equipped the internal trottle cockpit proposed by GM (ref TRC-010).
It is normally provided to measure the acceleration with a "stop" midpoint separating the "forward" and "reverse" steps.
Currently it only serves as an accelerator and I reverse the direction of rotation with a switch.
Is there a better way to do this, by setting the VEC 500 for example?
Thanks again,
Nautical regards.

[Bikemad]

With the VEC controllers, I think you need to change the "Speed throttle type" parameter to enable Forward and Reverse with a Stop position in the centre of the throttle movement.

Check out this post for more details.

If "Potentiometric" is not an available option from the drop down menu, I suggest you try "Potentiometer" instead. 

Alan
 

[Rusina]

Thank you Alan,
As soon as I go back to the boat, I try that.
Have a good day.

[Rusina]

Hello Alan,
Back on the boat, I connected my controller heat sink to the "keel-cooling" used to cool the old thermal engine. I managed to maintain the temperature of the VEC500 at about 80 ° C and I can turn for several hours without making it safe.
I also installed 20 kW of Lithium batteries and there it is full satisfaction, as they recharge in a couple of hours only with my photovoltaic cover.
On the other hand I can not exceed a speed of 5 km / h: when I push the potentiometer more, it is safe.
How do you explain this and how do you remedy it?
As shown on another subject, the motor is in alignment with the shaft and I use the "reverse" switch to go forward. Is there a report?
Thank you for your advice.

[Bikemad]

I am pleased to hear that the heatsink has cured the cutting out problem that you had before, but did you manage to get the throttle working correctly by changing the controller settings?

You can swap the following wires so that the motor runs in the correct direction without relying on the reverse switch:
The Blue and Yellow thick Phase wires need to be transposed and the Green and Yellow thin Hall sensor wires must be transposed at the same time.

Do not try running the motor with just the phase wires swapped (or just the Hall sensor wires swapped) as both must be swapped for the motor to run correctly. 

I'm not sure if the speed limitation is due to settings for the switched reverse mode, or whether it is limited by the motor rpm/battery voltage (or insufficient load on the motor).

When you push the throttle further, does the motor draw more current, increase in rpm, or sound any different?

Does the motor draw more current or run faster when the reverse switch is turned off (with the boat going backwards in your case)?

According to the dynamometer test data the 10kW motor produces maximum power and torque below 3500 rpm. How does this compare to the original diesel engine's maximum rpm?
If your motor is turning much faster than 3500 rpm, then it will be unable to produce as much power:

10,070.23W @ 3507 rpm
  7,385.05W @ 3855 rpm
  5,067.70W @ 4091 rpm   
  1,397.57W @ 4563 rpm   

Check out this post for a solution for a jetski conversion with an unexpectedly low power output.

Alan
 

[Rusina]

Hello Alan,
Thank you for your quick reply.
I recalibrated the engine speed to 3500 rpm.
But that does not change anything.
The engine is still not running.
I will try to rewire it in forward direction by modifying the cables as you indicate and I keep you informed.

[Rusina]

J'ai l'impression au bruit que lorsque je suis en marche arrière (la marche avant conventionnelle), le moteur tourne plus vite.
Je vais donc modifier l'ordre des cables.
Peux-tu me confirmer la configuration des nouveaux branchement car ceux du connecteur "Hall" ne sont PAS changés de la même façon que pour le moteur ?

[Bikemad]

I get the impression that when I am in reverse (conventional forward running), the engine runs faster.
So I will change the order of the cables.
Can you confirm the configuration of the new connections because those of the "Hall" connector are not changed in the same way as for the engine?

The two pairs of Blue and Yellow Phase wires must be swapped over on the controller terminals, and the Green and Yellow Hall sensor wires must be swapped on the Hall sensor connector.

It is better to swap the the Green and Yellow Hall sensor wires on the controller side of the Hall sensor connector if possible.

But if you are only able to swap the the Green and Yellow Hall sensor wires on the motor side of the Hall sensor connector (and it correctly reverses the motor's direction of rotation as expected) then I suggest that you also swap the Green and Yellow wires on the unused Hall sensor's connector to avoid problems in the future if the unused set of Hall sensors are plugged in.

Alan
 

[Rusina]

OK, it's much better at the torque!
Thank you.
This means that the operation is not symmetrical between forward and reverse.
I will resume my new tests and I will report to you.
Good night.

[Rusina]

Hi Alan,
As expected, I'll give you my test report.
It is better in speed with the reversal of the direction of rotation, but after about ten minutes, without any variation of the potentiometer, the engine slows down in revolutions and if the gas is increased, nothing Does not change. If the system is still pushed, the system becomes safe.
Would you have explanations and remedies?
Nautical regards and thanks.

[Bikemad]

Without a lot more information (controller settings, battery voltage under load, current draw and temperatures of the motor and controller etc.) it is difficult to know what is causing the problem, but if the motor is slowing down, it may be due to one of the following:

• The motor is getting too hot (or the "Motor temperature limited(°C)" is set too low)
• The controller is getting too hot
• The battery voltage is dropping too low under heavy load
• The 50% speed limit voltage (V) is set too high

The internal Sine Wave controllers used on the GM hub motors will automatically reduce the current if the battery voltage reaches the minimum voltage setting in order to prevent the battery voltage from going below the set limit, but I'm not sure if your controller does the same.

What does your battery voltage read under load, and how much current is being drawn (Ampères) when the motor starts to slow down?

I am also confused by one of your previous comments:

I also installed 20 kW of Lithium batteries and there it is full satisfaction, as they recharge in a couple of hours only with my photovoltaic cover.

Is this 20kW of maximum power output, or 20kWh of stored energy?

The maximum Power output that a battery can produce (measured in W or kW) and the total Energy stored in a battery (measured in Wh or kWh) are completely different.

A 48V 5Ah LiPo pack with a discharge rating of 90C can physically produce an output of 21.6kW at the maximum rated current (5 x 90 x 48) for a maximum duration of less than 40 seconds, but it can only hold a maximum of 240Wh (48 x 5 = 240Wh or 0.24kWh) of stored energy. 

What is the actual capacity (in Ah) and the maximum continuous discharge current ("C" rating) of the "20kW of Lithium batteries" that you have installed?

How much power is generated by your "photovoltaic cover"?

20kWh of Energy @ 48V would require a battery pack of around 417Ah, and the total area of your "photovoltaic cover" would have to be very large to generate a continuous 10kW of power to enable a charging current in excess of 200 Amps to fully recharge a battery of that capacity in just "a couple of hours". 

Alan