GoldenMotor.com Forum
General Category => Magic Pie & Smart Pie Discussions => Topic started by: Maya on September 13, 2018, 04:35:51 AM
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Hi there:
Someone have the settings for a battery 24V 20AH and the software to set it, is for Magic Pie 4 ( I'm trying many things to recover my bike) .
thanks a lot.
Maya
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Hi Maya,
If you are using the 5 pin USB programming cable, you will need to download the PI800 software (https://www.goldenmotor.com/controllers/PI-800.rar) for use with a Windows PC.
You may also need to install the USB Driver (https://www.goldenmotor.com/controllers/USB-Driver.rar) if your version of Windows does not recognise the controller.
Follow the connection technique described in this post (https://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=5330.msg30521#msg30521) and set your parameters as shown below:
(https://i.imgur.com/4uGW9CP.png)
Set the battery voltage first and then adjust the other parameters as required before saving them to the controller by clicking on the icon highlighted in the above screenshot.
The EBS Peak Phase Current (A) affects the amount of regenerative braking and has four options; 20A, 40A, 60A or 80A (80A setting produces maximum braking force).
Setting the Maximum Forward Speed (rpm) to 190 rpm should produce a smoother throttle action as this is the maximum motor speed that a 24V battery is likely to produce.
I have shown the Main Battery Current (A) set to 25 Amps, but you may need to reduce this if your bike has to comply with maximum power legislations.
25A @ 24V will draw 600 Watts from the battery, but his will only produce a actual power output of 480 Watts @ 80% efficiency. ;)
Adjusting the PAS Ratio (0.1 Times) setting should affect the amount of pedelec assistance, but it is unlikely to make any difference to your trike as your pedelec is not currently working. :-\
Alan
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Hi Bikemad:
Sorry but your software is not the same I have, I downloaded PI-800 but the menus are not the same. Look at very well your version is V-3.1.3 and mine is V-3.3.0 why if it is PI-800, I don't understand?
Please when you explain me something , don't forget that I'm newbie in this subject...sorry :-[
thanks a lot.
Maya
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There are many different versions of the PI-800 software (I have shown 5 versions in the screenshot below) but they are all very similar in operation.
As this is used for programming different controllers, it caters for many different parameters, but only displays the parameters applicable to a particular controller once it has connected to it.
Here's what version 3.3.0 looks like before it connects to my Magic Pie controller:
(https://i.imgur.com/lcQxmvq.png)
And here's what it looks like after the correct COM port has been selected and it has connected and uploaded the available parameters:
(http://i.imgur.com/VUwHQfU.png)
I suggest that you take a look at Gary's video on programming the controller (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtudSAudyrM) for more information.
Alan
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Hello again:
Thank you very much Alan.
Maya
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Hi Again:
well, I installed the controller wire I get all well until " error because of time out" then I put the battery on but the message "...because of time out " doesn't disappear and I can't get the settings :'(
driver and port are well installed
What could be wrong....?
it is possible the controller is out of order? anything else? please help me! :'(
thanks
Maya
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If you would like to look over post # 37 of my build log. You can see what worked for me. ;)
Direct link to post... (https://electricbike.com/forum/forum/builds/ebike-building-directions/48457-1st-build-e-bike-rider-magic-pie-v5-rear-bottle-batt-52v-11-5ah-huffy-parkside?p=62280#post62280)
Regards,
T.C.
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Hi Tommycat:
Thanks , but I can install the USB driver, the wire ,etc all ok till " ...because out of time" when I put the battery on nothing happens.... :'(
it's always ....because out of time...maybe I can't explain very well
any idea else?
Maya
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For me the controller is powered up and ready a minute before pressing the connect button in the software.
Did you set to the correct com port in the software as indicated in device manager for the communication cable before trying to connect?
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Hi Tommycat:
Yes, the com port is ok, all is ok until "....because of time out" and I put the battery on and nothing happens. ( of course I tested the battery with the screen led and all is ok)
By the way the wire that I connect is the one connected to the screen led? ( there isn't another with the 5 pin anyway)
Thanks a lot.
Maya
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From your description and to clarify, you need to have the battery turned on before you try connecting. If the battery is off you will get...
(https://i.imgur.com/6ZKTZt4.jpg)
I think that is the problem, but just to make sure where I'm not missing something...
Your on the right cable (display disconnected) that I know... And your cable connector is being recognized by device manager? And your connection software is set to the com port that you saw in device manager? Then with your battery plugged in an 'on'... you hit the connect button which is just to the left of the com port selection box.
(https://i.imgur.com/gEMfaYq.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/qeW5Zf2.jpg)
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Hi Tommycat:
I will do it and I'll tell you....
thanks
Maya
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Hi There:
Unhappily it doesn't work, always " no reponse because time out" I did all that you indicate ( tommycat) but nothing change.
strangely it's all ok but I only have power with hand throttle and pedaling back not forward. :'( :'(
another idea or maybe the controller is out of order?
thanks.
Maya
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Try this first...
For communication testing I would remove all wiring to the pedelec sensor and make sure they are kept separated and insulated as that is not the correct operation. Will get back to that problem. So just eliminate for now.
I know that 3 wires of the 5 coming from the controller are need for communication. TX,RX, and battery ground. Using the pin-out diagram below, check the connector pins for damage, and continuity to the controller if possible. (easy for the battery ground, check at battery connection. Not so much for the other 2...)
(https://i.imgur.com/TvYOGPa.jpg)
You are using the correct communication cable? Specifically for Magic Pies? Sorry had to ask as our options are dwindling. :-\
UPDATE: 9-30-2018 I verified that the only two things that will cause that error box is...
1) No power to controller
2) Communication cable not properly connected to controller.
And that it communicates even if you unplug the upper harness to eliminate any possible issues in it.
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Hi Tommycat:
Thank you very much for all, If I don't bother you...could you show me the diagram in the wires' photos in the wheel .
I can't understand which wire is every single wire in reality, sorry for that :-[.
Maybe you can show me the diagram with the photos of the wires, I wish I can explain well my idea.
Thanks a lot.
Maya
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Hope this helps...
(https://i.imgur.com/PewUb2P.jpg)
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Hi there:
well I tried all that you tell me but nothing change, do you think the controller is out of order? or it is the pedelec sensor, maybe?
can it repair the controller?
just in case I put some pictures.
thanks a lot.
Maya
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After seeing the condition of your wiring harness before repairs. I recommend you re-double your efforts to verify continuity of all the harness wires. And to make sure there is no shorting between them, using the previous harness wiring pin-out diagram and controller picture for reference. If all checks out perfectly and you have disconnected the pedelec sensor and upper harness as requested previously. I don't think that controller repair of the communication feature would be possible. And considering the condition of the wiring harness, replacement of the controller would be an attractive option as a new lower harness comes with it.
Best regards,
T.C.
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Hi There:
here a picture, maybe could you tell me which wire with which wire I have to sold ? please
Because the sensor pedal cable have only 3 smalls wires and I have a doubt about it .
thanks a lot .
Maya
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Hi Maya,
The following diagram shows what the unterminated wires are for;
(https://www.goldenmotor.com/e-Bike-DIY/MP3%20SmartPie%20Wiring%20Layout.jpg)
You need to connect your pedelec sensor to the Red, Black and Yellow wires on the motor harness:
The Red from your pedelec sensor goes to the Red "+5V" wire.
The Black from your pedelec sensor goes to the Black "Ground (Battery -)" wire.
The Green wire from your pedelec sensor goes to the Yellow "Pedelec Signal" wire.
The unused Blue wire on the motor harness reverses the direction of the motor when it is connected to the Black ground wire.
Reverse is typically not used on a pushbike, but could be used on a trike, but you would need to wire in a separate switch to to allow Reverse to be activated easily when needed.
Make sure that the unused Red, Black, Yellow and Blue wires for the horn and lights are carefully insulated from each other to avoid any short circuits which could easily destroy your wiring harness (and possibly your controller too). :o
Alan
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Hi Bikemad:
Thank you very much for your help, it doesn't working well yet, always same problem but I realize that multi-control Buttons ( with green and red buttons) is broken, it's that important? ( see the picture)
I command a new controller, so I'am affraid that the multi-control buttons was the real problem? what do you think about it?
Have a nice day.
Maya
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If it is just the button assembly that has physically broken, the motor should work fine if the broken button is unplugged.
However, if the main wiring harness (and/or the controller harness) has been damaged by the wires in the horn/cruise switch unit being shorted together, then you may have to replace the wiring harness (and/or the controller)
There are four wires inside the horn/cruise button switch, one of which is Battery live (B+) and another is Battery Ground (B-). If these two wires become damaged and the inner cores are able to touch against each other, this would result in a direct short circuit across the battery leads causing the thin wires in the harness to become hot enough to melt through their insulation, and probably through the insulation of adjacent wires within the harness.
If other wires in the harness have been melted through, this could cause further short circuits across many of the wires within the harness, and if the main control harness has been internally damaged, it could also damage a new controller if the damaged harness is not replaced before the new controller is fitted and the battery connected. :-[
Alan
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Hi Alan:
Well I finally change the controller but IT DOESN'T WORK ..... :'( :'(
I think I installed the new controller well ( wires and so) but when I put the battery on the screen led blinks ( I join a small video and pictures )
when I tried to push the speed throttle it goes back strongly with a motor noise ( like a car when is on) AND IN THE CONTROLLER there is a small red light blinking ( video 2 )
thank you so much for your help.
Maya
PS: just in case when I connect the controller to the PC , the program only open the controller settings and parameters not the others settings and I can do changes but I can't save it.
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Alan will need to know the number of times the LED blinks. As the number of blinks determines the error or fault code.
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Hi Tommycat:
Thanks for your reply, well it's blinks 15 times :-\
Have a nice week end.
Maya
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Hi Maya,
The new controller will need to be programmed to the correct voltage for your 24V battery or it will not run because your battery voltage will be too low if it is set for a 36V or 48V battery (48V is the default setting).
Be very careful testing it without he axle being held, if it does suddenly start running, you will end up wrapping the controller around the spinning axle and it could rip the wires out causing further problems. :o
I'm not sure what the 15 blinks indicate, as my error code list only goes up to 14 blinks. :-[
Perhaps GM have added more features and or additional fault codes.
when I tried to push the speed throttle it goes back strongly with a motor noise ( like a car when is on)
I'm not sure what you mean by this, perhaps another video might show the problem.
PS: just in case when I connect the controller to the PC , the program only open the controller settings and parameters not the others settings and I can do changes but I can't save it.
If your reverse switch is fitted to the new controller, make sure it is turned off while attempting to save the parameter to the controller.
Also check that you are clicking on the correct icon to "Download" the settings to the controller. ;)
Alan
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Hi Bikemad:
The controller is set in 24V .
Difficult to make 2 mo videos :-[
thanks a lot
Maya
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If your controller is definitely set to 24V then it might be that the phase wires or hall sensor wires are configured differently on the new controller to what they were on the old one.
It might be worth checking this thread (https://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=4879.msg28493#msg28493) in case your problem is the same.
How did you manage to change the controller's voltage from the default 48V setting to 24V if you "can't save it"? ???
Alan
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Hi Bikemad:
The voltage setting was made by the techniciens of Goldenmotors I warned them that my battery was 24v , before I buyed. I thinked it would be the only important thing)
When I can get the acces to the PI-800.exe program, I have only 2 settings for the controller, I think are "function settings and parameters settings" and there I can see the battery voltage is 24v ( the others setting are not) .
If you don't mind , could you put a picture showing me what you say, I 'm not so good in technical english, sorry ...actually I'm learning with my bike problem...lol before this I never dis-insert a screw :o
about the phase wire I thinks all the controllers are the same position of colors, I find a picture for a Magic Pie 5 ( because my new controller upgrade my Magic Pie 4 to Magic Pie 5 )and it's the same of my Magic Pie 4.
Which one is the "hall sensor"?
Thank you so much for help Alan and Tommycat.
Have a nice sunday
Maya
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The five Hall Sensor wires go to the six pin connector, but there are different types on some controllers:
(https://i.imgur.com/FCbQamR.png)
If your motor is making noises (but not turning) when you apply the throttle, then I think that either the Hall Sensor Wires or the Phase wires are not configured correctly for the new controller.
If you have had to swap the connector for the Hall Sensors like I had to:
(https://i.imgur.com/N9744oM.png)
It is possible that the wire colours on your motor may be configured slightly differently to the colours on the controller. :-\
If the Hall Sensor wires have been inadvertently mixed up (assuming the Red and Black are still correct) it is much easier to temporarily swap the push on connectors of the Phase wires around to test different sequences.
As there are only 5 other variations to test, it shouldn't be too hard (or take too long) to find the correct/working configuration.
If the way they are currently connected is wrong, there are five other possible ways to connect the phase wires to the controller.
Terminal: (1) (2) (3)
Option 1 B G Y
Option 2 B Y G
Option 3 G Y B
Option 4 G B Y
Option 5 Y G B
Option 6 Y B G (This is the current position)
Only test with 1/4 to 1/2 throttle maximum at first, as using full throttle with an incorrect phase sequence can sometimes overload the controller's MOSFETs.
The correct sequence should give a smooth running motor, if it sounds very harsh and struggles to turn the wheel, it is probably wrong. :(
To avoid any confusion, make sure you record each position that you try, and make a note (or take a picture) of the working combination for future reference.
If you find that the motor runs properly, but is spinning in the reverse direction with the reverse switch OFF, then you will need to swap the Green and Yellow Hall sensor wires and the Blue and Yellow Phase wires too.
Alan
EDIT: Picture changed to correct wrong wire colour (now Green instead of Grey)
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Hi Alan ;
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Thanks for your reply. I join some pictures maybe can explain better than me, because I unmount my bike again to re-start all.
please tell me if I have right?
for the hall five sensor wires I simply sold the sames colors, is that ? isn't it? ( see the picture with the black connector with red tape)
thank you
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(https://i.imgur.com/mo2eInm.png)
If your Hall sensor wires are connected as shown above and they are connected to the correct colour wires coming from your motor then this should be correct (assuming that the new connector came with the new controller and you haven't changed the positions of the wires around within the connector to match the old connector).
Picture 3:
The four wires shown in this picture are for the pedelec and reverse, but I thought your pedelec wires were Red, Green and Black, not Red, Green and Yellow?
The Black wire has to connect to both the Black pedelec sensor wire and the return wire from your reverse switch.
You need to connect your pedelec sensor to the Red, Black and Yellow wires on the motor harness:
The Red from your pedelec sensor goes to the Red "+5V" wire.
The Black from your pedelec sensor goes to the Black "Ground (Battery -)" wire.
The Green wire from your pedelec sensor goes to the Yellow "Pedelec Signal" wire.
The unused Blue wire on the motor harness reverses the direction of the motor when it is connected to the Black ground wire.
Reverse is typically not used on a pushbike, but could be used on a trike, but you would need to wire in a separate switch to to allow Reverse to be activated easily when needed.
Picture 4:
Yes that is correct.
Make sure that the unused Red, Black, Yellow and Blue wires for the horn and lights are carefully insulated from each other to avoid any short circuits.
I hope this all makes sense to you now.
(https://i.imgur.com/FnmD5lE.png)
Alan
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Hi Alan:
sorry I made a mistake, you're right the pedelec wire is red,green and black. I don't need the reverse, so the blue one I seal it?
In the picture of the connectors I just sold the same colors because the new black connector had small wires ( black, red,blue,green, yellow) is not that logic?
there is not a gray wire like in your picture.
So I have to change the position of the new connector wires?
thanks a lot.
have a nice day.
Maya
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I don't need the reverse, so the blue one I seal it?
Yes, carefully insulate the unused Blue wire.
In the picture of the connectors I just sold the same colors because the new black connector had small wires ( black, red,blue,green, yellow) is not that logic?
Sounds very logical to me, hopefully it will be correct.
there is not a gray wire like in your picture.
Sorry about that, it was supposed to be green, I have just updated it to avoid any further confusion to others. Now it will only confuse me (and the other 6% of people who are also red-green colourblind)
So I have to change the position of the new connector wires?
Hopefully not, let's wait and see if it runs properly first. ;)
Alan
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Hi Alan:
The picture with the order of the white connector wires that you sent me are the same positions and colors in the new black connector in my new controller
I'm confused because it's all that I did at the beginning just in case I will do it again. In the other hand I sent a message to goldenmotor china and they send me the same picture ( see picture) with I began to install the new controller but they don't told me to change the phases wires , so ...
Do you think I have to change the phases wires? It's the only thing that I didn't do , unless the sensor pedelec is out of order, that can be a cause to not work?
thank you so much for your help :-*
Maya
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I have said it before, but I'll say it again, "If your motor is making noises (but not turning) when you apply the throttle, then I think that either the Hall Sensor Wires or the Phase wires are not configured correctly for the new controller".
As the Hall sensors are wired to the correct coloured wires on the motor, then they should be correct.
(https://i.imgur.com/FnmD5lE.png)
I still do not know if your motor is making noises when the throttle is applied, but hopefully you do. ;)
If the motor is making noises (but not turning) when the throttle is operated, then the Phase wires will need to be tried in alternative positions (as per my previous post (https://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=6578.msg36352#msg36352)), but if there are no noises from the motor whatsoever when the throttle is activated, there must be another reason as to why the controller is not sending power to the motor. :-\
I suggest that you leave both of the brake levers and the horn/cruise button unit unplugged from the harness until the non-running has been sorted, and also make sure that the button on the throttle is not pressed in.
Alan
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Hi Again:
well, this time I did all like alan's instructions, all the wires were good installed.
BUT, when I plug the wires except the brake levers and the horn/cruise button unit, trike goes backward
when I plug all wires except sensor pedelec, trike goes backward
when I plug all wires except screen led, trike goes backward
when I plug all the wires like the picture / diagram, trike goes backward,no noise (I think the noise I heard before was because I have the brake on )
when I push the speed throttle, trike goes backward, aswell when I pedaling backward
When I'm pedaling forward nothing happens, no assistance in all the cases.
ABOUT the blinking red light in the controller that disappears when the wires are plugged ( so I think it was blinking because I NOT plugged all the wires , it is possible ? )
Now , the led screen is always blinking ( don't forget that I have a 24v battery, so the measurer is always full, when all is ok) and with only 1 blinking bar ( see picture).
The only thing I didn't tray yet is changing the phases wires, because I sent a mail to goldenmotor china but they didn't reply yet.
More ideas?
I am going crazy :o :o :P :-[
thanks a lot.
Maya
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When I plug the wires except the brake levers and the horn/cruise button unit, trike goes backward
when I plug all wires except sensor pedelec, trike goes backward
when I plug all wires except screen led, trike goes backward
when I plug all the wires like the picture / diagram, trike goes backward,no noise (I think the noise I heard before was because I have the brake on )
when I push the speed throttle, trike goes backward, as well when I pedaling backward
When I'm pedaling forward nothing happens, no assistance in all the cases.
If you find that the motor runs properly, but is spinning in the reverse direction with the reverse switch OFF, then you will need to swap the Green and Yellow Hall sensor wires and the Blue and Yellow Phase wires too.
Swapping the wires as detailed above should return the motor to its correct default direction of rotation (forward).
If the motor direction is sorted by the above, the next remaining problem then would be the one you have with the pedelec only working when you pedal backwards, just like it did with the old controller.
We appear to be in virtually the same situation as we were when you first posted on the forum back in August (https://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=6570.msg36088#msg36088). ::)
I am still puzzled as to why your pedelec now works when you pedal backwards if nothing has been physically altered on the chainwheel or pedelec sensor.
I am now wondering whether the torque sensor signal wire should be wired in parallel with the throttle signal wire instead of going to the pedelec signal wire. :-\
Are you certain that the pedelec sensor wiring was originally connected to the pedelec wires on the motor harness before the "accident" occurred? Or could the wiring have been previously modified to allow the Green sensor lead to connect into the throttle signal wire instead of the Yellow Pedelec signal wire?
Perhaps a brief explanation of the "accident", and some more details of the actual damage caused to the wiring and switches etc. may give us a clue as to what could have happened that might have caused this particular problem. Because I am still unable to explain what is actually causing this fault or how it has occurred. :-[
Unfortunately, I can't suggest a solution until I know what is actually causing the problem. ::)
I suggest that you concentrate on rectifying the motor's direction of rotation first, so we have one less thing to worry about. ;)
After re-reading one of your previous comments earlier in this thread, I think I may have discovered the reason why the display is not working correctly and also displaying the "Error 9" message:
I find a picture for a Magic Pie 5 ( because my new controller upgrade my Magic Pie 4 to Magic Pie 5 )and it's the same of my Magic Pie 4.
Please be aware that there are different versions of the BAC-601 Smart Display unit, and the MP4 version does not work with MP5 or MP Edge controllers. ;)
Are you sure you have purchased the correct version of the BAC-601 Smart Display? Because there are two different versions of the BAC-601, which are specific to either the MP4/SP4 controllers or the MP5/MP Edge and SP5 controllers.
If the BAC-601 Display that you purchased was meant for a Smart Pie 4, then it could explain why it doesn't work properly with your Smart Pie 5 controller. :-\
Unfortunately, your display worked fine the MP4 controller, but you have now replaced it with a MP5 controller, and from what I have been lead to understand, the MP5 controller requires a different version of the BAC-601 Smart LCD Display. :(
Perhaps you can email GM China and ask them to clarify the current position, as I don't know which MP4 or MP5 controllers are affected.
ABOUT the blinking red light in the controller that disappears when the wires are plugged ( so I think it was blinking because I NOT plugged all the wires , it is possible ? )
If the controller is not connected to the Phase Wires and Hall Sensors it regularly blinks 5 times while powered up.
If it is connected to the motor, but the control harness (or the throttle) is not connected, it will regularly blink 14 times.
Alan
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Hi Alan:
sorry , I have a doubt about this:
If you find that the motor runs properly, but is spinning in the reverse direction with the reverse switch OFF, then you will need to swap the Green and Yellow Hall sensor wires and the Blue and Yellow Phase wires too.
I did understand the swapping of phases wires, but the green and yellow sensor hall wires, do you mean put the yellow with the blue wire from the pedelec ( which has 3 wires black, red and green) , instead with the green? ( see pictures) please, tell me.
And I have to do it at the same time or first change phases wires, do test
change the hall sensor wires, do test or...
change both and do test?
Have a nice day.
Maya
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Hi Alan:
sorry , I have a doubt about this:
If you find that the motor runs properly, but is spinning in the reverse direction with the reverse switch OFF, then you will need to swap the Green and Yellow Hall sensor wires and the Blue and Yellow Phase wires too.
I did understand the swapping of phases wires, but the green and yellow sensor hall wires, do you mean put the yellow with the blue wire from the pedelec ( which has 3 wires black, red and green) , instead with the green? ( see pictures) please, tell me.
No, I mean swap (transpose) the Green and Yellow Hall Sensor wires so that the Green wire coming from your motor goes to the Yellow wire coming from the Black Hall Sensor connector plug, and the Yellow wire coming from your motor goes to the Green wire coming from the Black Hall Sensor connector plug:
(https://i.imgur.com/wpj3qvH.png)
The unused Blue wire on the motor harness reverses the direction of the motor when it is connected to the Black ground wire.
The Blue wire on the motor harness is nothing to do with the pedelec and must only be used for the reverse function.
This unterminated Blue wire must be properly insulated if it is not connected to an optionally installed "Reverse" switch.
And I have to do it at the same time or first change phases wires, do test
change the hall sensor wires, do test or...
change both and do test?
You must make the changes to both pairs of wires (Phase and Hall) before testing.
Alan
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Hi Alan:
well, I did what you told me ( swap the green and yellow hall sensor and swap the phases wires) this is the facts:
the option 5 of the phases wires works,( see picture) I mean when I push the speed throttle that goes forward, but when I plug the 3 wires from the pedelec
sensor ( black, red and green wires ) with the 4 wires (black, yellow, red and blue wires, I don't know how is named this. see picture) that goes forward when I pedaling backward and there is not assistance, of course now I know that my screen led doesn't work well with my new controller, so that would mean that's why I have no assistance , because I can put the assistance in the screen led (1,2,3,4,5) but that don't send the order to the pedelec?
So, Now the problem is how to do for have pedaling assistance, you can see a picture where is located the magnet from the pedelec and the old pedelec sensor that the technician cut when he installed the new pedelec sensor but he left the old magnets as you can see in the picture.
I was wondering if I could re-plug the old sensor pedelec ( see the picture) do you think it would works?
the cruise speed and horn botton it is necessary, because I never used?
Maybe we are near to find out the solution! I hope so!
Thank you so much.
Maya
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hi again:
I was wondering if the broken springs have to do with the fact I have assistance problems?
Just in case I put a picture of my lastest controller setting ( I disable the reverse) by the way the others setting are ok?
Thank you so much.
Maya
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To avoid any further confusion, please answer the following questions:
- Does the motor run properly in the correct forward direction when the throttle is used?
- Does the motor run properly in the correct forward direction while pedalling backwards?
- Has the replacement sensor been moved (or relocated) during (or after) the original "accident"?
I understand that the motor does not run at all while pedalling in a normal forwards direction. ;)
As the display unit is not compatible with the controller, I would leave it disconnected to ensure it doesn't affect the controller operation until the Pedelec has been sorted so that it works when pedalling forwards. The controller should default to the pedelec assistance level set in the controller with the display disconnected.
I was wondering if the broken springs have to do with the fact I have assistance problems?
The broken springs will not have any effect on the pedelec when pedalling backwards, as they are only compressed when a load is applied to the chain.
When pedalling forward, the broken springs will simply allow the magnets to move closer to the sensor at a lower pedal pressure than it would have before the springs were broken.
The original sensor would have allowed the motor power to be varied in relation to the amount of pressure on the pedal, but as the original sensor is no longer being used, the springs should not really affect the operation of the replacement sensor.
If the replacement sensor was supplied by Golden Motor, I would expect it to be a "pulse" type which connects to the pedelec signal wire.
The other type of sensor a "Variable Voltage" type, and that type would need to be connected to the throttle signal wire, which is why I previously asked:
Are you certain that the pedelec sensor wiring was originally connected to the pedelec wires on the motor harness before the "accident" occurred? Or could the wiring have been previously modified to allow the Green sensor lead to connect into the throttle signal wire instead of the Yellow Pedelec signal wire?
Perhaps a brief explanation of the "accident", and some more details of the actual damage caused to the wiring and switches etc. may give us a clue as to what could have happened that might have caused this particular problem.
With the Golden Motor Pedelec Sensor, if the motor works when pedalling backwards, the magnet ring is usually fitted incorrectly and needs to be turned around. See this post (https://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=6000.msg33747#msg33747) for more details.
Your setup appears to be using the original magnets from the original pedelec system, unless the plastic magnet ring was fitted but has somehow broken off during the accident.
It is difficult (from your photo) to see how the new pedelec sensor is attached, but as the magnets are not able to be reversed easily, I think you may need to reposition the new sensor (somehow rotate it 180 degrees?) so that the magnets move across it in the opposite direction.
I also see from your settings that the "Battery drawn current" is only set at 18 Amps, which is the default setting for a Smart Pie, the default setting for the Magic Pie is usually 25 Amps. If you have not changed this setting, I am wondering whether the controller has the Smart Pie firmware installed instead of the Magic Pie Firmware, which might explain why the wheel ran backwards with the standard Hall/Phase wire configuration. :-\
The Smart Pie, Magic Pie and Magic Pie Edge all use exactly the same controller, but they all use different firmware!
Alan
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Hi Alan:
Thank you very much for your help.
To avoid any further confusion, please answer the following questions:
Does the motor run properly in the correct forward direction when the throttle is used?
Does the motor run properly in the correct forward direction while pedalling backwards?
Has the replacement sensor been moved (or relocated) during (or after) the original "accident"?
1= yes
2= Not, it runs in a jerky way.
3= well , when I was inspecting what was wrong with the bike , I pushed the sensor but only a few centimeters ( 1 or 2) because there wasn't place .
I understand that the motor does not run at all while pedalling in a normal forwards direction.
it's correct, there is not assistance, I pedaling I a normal way.
Are you certain that the pedelec sensor wiring was originally connected to the pedelec wires on the motor harness before the "accident" occurred? Or could the wiring have been previously modified to allow the Green sensor lead to connect into the throttle signal wire instead of the Yellow Pedelec signal wire?
Perhaps a brief explanation of the "accident", and some more details of the actual damage caused to the wiring and switches etc. may give us a clue as to what could have happened that might have caused this particular problem.
I Think there were connected to the motor harness, because the throttle have a plug in the harness , no modifications.
The accident was when after change of a tire in the from wheel a friend forgot to put a security brace in the wheel and when I was riding the wheel took off of the bike and the wires were ripped, like in previously pictures.
Your setup appears to be using the original magnets from the original pedelec system, unless the plastic magnet ring was fitted but has somehow broken off during the accident.
Yes, I'm using the original pedelec system, the goldenmotor pedelec is to small. I don't know if I can do something to install this.
Just in case it's impossible to change the position of the magnet that I'm using because they are fixed ( it's like a cap and bigger than the goldenmotor product not flat, see picture)
I also see from your settings that the "Battery drawn current" is only set at 18 Amps, which is the default setting for a Smart Pie, the default setting for the Magic Pie is usually 25 Amps. If you have not changed this setting, I am wondering whether the controller has the Smart Pie firmware installed instead of the Magic Pie Firmware, which might explain why the wheel ran backwards with the standard Hall/Phase wire configuration. :-\
The Smart Pie, Magic Pie and Magic Pie Edge all use exactly the same controller, but they all use different firmware!
Can I get the firmware for Magic Pie 5 somewhere. How can I know the firmware installed on my Magic Pie5?
Can I change that in the settings( from 18 AMPS to 25 AMPS) in the software PI-800? there won't be problems?
If you need more information please let me know.
Have a nice monday :-*
Maya
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It sounds like the sensor may have been accidentally moved enough to upset its correct operation.
If you are unable relocate the existing sensor correctly, then fitting the GM sensor on the left hand side of the bottom bracket might be an easier solution, but make sure that the three arrows on the magnet disc are pointing in the forward direction of rotation as shown here:
(https://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6286.0;attach=7977;image)
Hopefully the jerky pedelec operation is due to the distance between the magnets and the sensor, which should reduce when it is being pedalled in the forward direction.
Can I get the firmware for Magic Pie 5 somewhere. How can I know the firmware installed on my Magic Pie5?
Can I change that in the settings( from 18 AMPS to 25 AMPS) in the software PI-800? there won't be problems?
Reset the the Battery drawn current to 25 Amps, and if the motor runs correctly then it probably has the correct firmware installed.
If you find it is not as powerful or as smooth as it was before, it might be the wrong controller/firmware, but don't worry about that now.
My original MP5 controller had a sticker on the outer cover clearly stating it was a MP5 Vector 25 Amp controller:
(https://i.imgur.com/l5jATHq.png)
But yours does not appear to have a sticker. :-\
Unfortunately, there is no way of checking what version of firmware has been flashed to your controller, the software for reflashing the firmware simply overwrites the existing firmware that is already in the controller, but I believe the flash update is only supposed to be used on Magic Pie 5.3.1, Smart Pie 5.3.1 and Magic Pie Edge controllers, so you would need to check your controller version before attempting to overwrite the existing firmware.
As this is a new controller, you would also need to check with your supplier whether the firmware needs to be updated.
If it does, they should be able to supply you with the required software and files to reflash the firmware using the USB programming cable.
Alan
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Just a thought on the PAS working while pedaling backwards... Any chance that the magnetic ring had been accidently flipped during removal and reinstallation. As flipping the ring with the opposite side (opposite magnet polarity) to face the sensor should correct this issue. May be worth a try.
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Hi Alan and Tommycat:
just a thought on the PAS working while pedaling backwards... Any chance that the magnetic ring had been accidently flipped during removal and reinstallation. As flipping the ring with the opposite side (opposite magnet polarity) to face the sensor should correct this issue. May be worth a try.
How I told before the system of magnets of my trike is different ( see pictures in this post) I can't flip the magnetic ring because it's not a ring, not flat.
But I changed for the Goldenmotor ring today( see picture)like Alan told me , it works but not like before , I mean there is electric assistance but when I pedal( forward) it pulls me . that could be because the screen led doesn't work and I can't change the assistance power (1,2,3,4,5) ?
I have no news from goldenmotor china about the firmware of my new Magic Pie 5 controller :'(
thank you for your help.
Have a nice day both.
Maya
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Hi There:
goldenmotor china reply me, they told me that my Magic Pie 5 controller is INT-MP5/SMP5/EDGE VEC V5.3.1, I hope it can help to find a solution if someone have an idea.
Thank you so much guys
Have a nice day.
Maya
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Without replacing the BAC-601 Smart Display unit for the later version (which should be compatible with your later MP5 controller) you are unlikely to be able to select different levels of assistance during the ride like you could before.
You will therefore only have a single "fixed" level of assistance, which can only be adjusted by changing the "PAS Ratio (0.1 Times)" value using the USB programming lead and a PC or the Bluetooth dongle and a suitable Android phone.
If the controller is working correctly using the throttle, it presumably has the correct MP5 firmware installed, but the V5.3.1 controller is capable of being reflashed if the motor (not the pedelec function) is not working correctly.
Alan
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Hi Alan:
thanks for you replay.
You will therefore only have a single "fixed" level of assistance, which can only be adjusted by changing the "PAS Ratio (0.1 Times)" value using the USB programming lead and a PC or the Bluetooth dongle and a suitable Android phone.
to how much do you advise me to set the "PAS Ratio" to have medium assistance , I set at 50 but there wasn't too much difference?
If the controller is working correctly using the throttle, it presumably has the correct MP5 firmware installed, but the V5.3.1 controller is capable of being reflashed if the motor (not the pedelec function) is not working correctly
I think is working correctly ( forward) but I don't know why when I pedal that pull me , like everytime I pedal the assistance re-start strongly , that could be because the LED screen or is something else? what difference there is in setting 18 or 25 "battery drawn current"?
thank you so much.
Maya
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You will just have to try different settings until you find one that works best for your typical cadence (pedal rpm).
Reducing the "Acceleration (%)" setting should cause the motor to power up more smoothly.
Adjusting the "Battery drawn current" basically affects the maximum torque (and power) that the motor produces.
Alan
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Hi Alan:
I did what you told me but the changes are minimal, just maybe I can climb a little better but not like before.
Do you think If I change the screen led by one compatible with Magic Pie 5 could work well like before?
it is possible that the cause that it doesn't work well could be because the screen led or it could be another problem? any idea?
Thanks for your reply.
Maya
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Do you think If I change the screen led by one compatible with Magic Pie 5 could work well like before?
The Pedelec function of the MP5 controller (in conjunction with the correct MP5 compatible BAC-601 Smart Display) should work just the same as it did with your previous MP4 controller (assuming all the programmable parameters are set exactly the same).
Without being able to select the different levels of assistance, which are only available with the Smart LCD display (or Bluetooth dongle and suitable Android phone), the single fixed level of pedal assistance is not very nice to use, and there is no easy way to turn it on and off other than physically disconnecting the pedelec sensor.
In fact, before I had the Smart display for my MP4 I actually removed my pedelec sensor because I found the pedelec operation to be somewhat annoying. :(
Since fitting the Smart Display (and refitting the pedelec sensor) the pedelec is far more useable, but to be honest, I seldom use the pedelec function, as I much prefer being in full control of the throttle.
But at least I now have the option to use the pedelec if/when I want to. ;)
Hopefully, fitting the later MP5 Smart Display to your bike will return the pedelec operation to the way it used to work before your controller died.
(https://i.imgur.com/FnmD5lE.png)
Alan