Author Topic: Battery discharge - cells discharged to different voltages  (Read 20525 times)

Offline Just

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Re: Battery discharge - cells discharged to different voltages
« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2012, 05:10:03 PM »
"I wouldn't be doing that without a better understanding of the BMS itself" - why so? can I charge the battery while the load is connected? so why BMS itself cannot be used as a load? honestly, it's very interesting idea :-)

Offline truly_bent

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Re: Battery discharge - cells discharged to different voltages
« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2012, 07:02:42 PM »
Lemme know how that works for ya. :)
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Offline Just

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Re: Battery discharge - cells discharged to different voltages
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2012, 09:49:32 PM »
I just measured a voltage of the cells after the battery was fully discharged and then left untouched for 24 hours... The cells have voltages between 3.33V to 3.37V... So, it seems the BMS did its job and balanced the cells while charging. It also seems that there is no a leakage path from the cells - all of them are fully charged and have the same voltage (approximately). 
So, are there some ideas why when a load is connected to the battery discharge leads the cells tend to be discharged to so different voltages (from 2.33V to 3.22V)?
Thanks for any tips/comments!

Offline truly_bent

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Re: Battery discharge - cells discharged to different voltages
« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2012, 11:41:11 PM »
Quote
I just measured a voltage of the cells after the battery was fully discharged and then left untouched for 24 hours... The cells have voltages between 3.33V to 3.37V... So, it seems the BMS did its job and balanced the cells while charging.

I'm confused by this statement. At first you say you measured the cells after they had been fully discharged for 24 hours, then you go on to say that the BMS did its job balancing the cells while charging.

Could you clarify this for me?

Jeff
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Offline Just

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Re: Battery discharge - cells discharged to different voltages
« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2012, 11:55:13 PM »
it's a typo, sorry for that... should be "fully charged and then left untouched for 24 hours"
« Last Edit: August 27, 2012, 12:10:23 AM by dmitryl »

Offline Morgen 3Eman

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Re: Battery discharge - cells discharged to different voltages
« Reply #20 on: August 27, 2012, 04:56:45 PM »


Hi Folks,

The more I think about this, the less sense it makes. 

TTFN,
Dennis

Offline Just

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Re: Battery discharge - cells discharged to different voltages
« Reply #21 on: August 27, 2012, 06:20:29 PM »
Hmm... What's purpose of CMOS switches on the BMS board? It seems mine is missing one of totally ten. Might it be critical or just influence  on amount of the current, which might be driven through BMS?
« Last Edit: August 27, 2012, 08:59:20 PM by dmitryl »

Offline truly_bent

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Re: Battery discharge - cells discharged to different voltages
« Reply #22 on: August 27, 2012, 08:57:03 PM »
And thus begins the process of reverse engineering the BMS board. That's seriously tedious work.

Not likely GM (acronym for Great Mother, btw) is going to give up schematics on a proprietary board. Without that, you're travelling in uncharted waters. On yer own :)

Might consider taking this one to the authorities.

Jeff
« Last Edit: August 27, 2012, 09:18:22 PM by truly_bent »
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Offline Just

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Re: Battery discharge - cells discharged to different voltages
« Reply #23 on: August 27, 2012, 09:27:40 PM »
Take yourself there, baby! There is no any help from you - only complains! And give me a favor - don't response to this post - there are many others where you have not yet bothered there!

Offline truly_bent

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Re: Battery discharge - cells discharged to different voltages
« Reply #24 on: August 27, 2012, 09:49:43 PM »
Not quite the response I was expecting.

By "authorities" I meant someone authorized to inspect and/or repair the unit. Perhaps I could have been clearer.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2012, 09:54:59 PM by truly_bent »
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Offline e-lmer

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Re: Battery discharge - cells discharged to different voltages
« Reply #25 on: August 28, 2012, 07:12:16 PM »

The reason a battery will discharge the cells to different voltages is that the
chemistry of each cell is difficult (expensive) to make exact.  Tiny fluctuations in
the mixture, the amount of chemical, and the contact area cause measurable
differences in the capacity and discharge rates of the individual cells.

This is the reason that a BMS is used, it charges the individual cells to a common
charged voltage.

I have an astro-flight blinky balancer for up to 6 lipo cells that does not
need the charging voltage to balance, you charge via the discharge plug,
the balancer bleeds higher charged cells into lesser charged cells during charging.

Since the GM Packs do not charge via the mains, I would not assume this to be
the same setup.

Offline Just

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Re: Battery discharge - cells discharged to different voltages
« Reply #26 on: August 28, 2012, 07:25:27 PM »
"astro-flight blinky balancer for up to 6 lipo cells" - could it be used for LiFePo4 cells? do you sell it? if not then where to buy? Is it expensive? could it be connected continuously? should I have 3 of such balancers for 16 cells 48V pack?
BTW, why have you chose using LiPo cells and not LiFePo4 ones?
Thank you!

Offline Morgen 3Eman

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Re: Battery discharge - cells discharged to different voltages
« Reply #27 on: August 28, 2012, 11:54:37 PM »
Hi Elmer,

I'm just wondering about your tiny chemistry variation suggestion.  Do you think a 3% discharge voltage change  is a tiny variation compared to a 30% discharge voltage change?

How does the balancer you spoke of work?  That sounds like pretty interesting technology.

The charge appears to be pretty well balanced from what Dmitryl posted, if my memory still works.

The linearity of the variation after discharge bugs the hell out of me.


TTFN,
Dennis

Offline Just

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Re: Battery discharge - cells discharged to different voltages
« Reply #28 on: August 29, 2012, 06:46:53 PM »
A name for BMS, which balance the cells during discharging, is active BMS.
Does anyone know where it can be purchased?
Any recommendations?

Offline Bikemad

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Re: Battery discharge - cells discharged to different voltages
« Reply #29 on: August 30, 2012, 01:45:13 PM »
The linearity of the variation after discharge bugs the hell out of me.

Perhaps the voltage variation is caused by a combination of the no-load voltage increase within the cells and the time difference between taking the readings of each individual cell?

The resting voltage of my LiPo packs can rise considerably at the end of a run when all load is removed.
I'm sure if I was to measure each cell with a similar delay between each measurement, I would obtain readings with similarly incremental voltage values.

To test my theory try measuring the voltage of the cells from the opposite end of the pack next time, or re-measure the first cell again after measuring all the others and see if its voltage has changed since it was measured the first time.

Alan