Author Topic: premature lvc by overdischarge?  (Read 16623 times)

Offline Leslie

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Re: premature lvc by overdischarge?
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2012, 07:23:32 AM »
I remember one man had his old GM charger AC selection switch set to 240v instead of 120v


Because his electricity grid system was set to 120v, the charger being set to 240v wasnt functioning properly to charge the battery normally.. 

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Offline Enpro

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Re: premature lvc by overdischarge?
« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2012, 10:33:24 PM »
http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/507403016/Headway_36V10Ah_LiMnO2_LiFePO4_lithium_battery.html

For a little more weight LiFePo4 live longer the LiMn02.


It depends on the cell, pouch cells are a bit lame on the max discharge side, where as the canister cells preform much better.

I believe it's because canisters stop the gases from bulging the cell structure and pouches puff up from the heat under high loads. I would bet running a pouch pack in a hot environment is much different to a internal resistance generated type heat at heavy load times..

Temperature performance is not cut and dry.

Well I bought a 36v/25 amp sensorless controller for the moment and if I put them in parallel they should be able to handle 25/30 amps no problem right?
If they still run dry after only a couple of miles i'm definitely going to sent them back.
The bad pack is already a replacement of a early pack that wouldn't even charge to 40v at all but the other pack I have works fine.
For my 72v controller i'm going to save some money for some headways.
Also my Magic Pie 3 has gotten a lot of play on the axle only after a few test rides but besides that it performs great.

And my charger doesn't have any switch to set the input voltage so I guess that cant be the problem.
 

Offline Leslie

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Re: premature lvc by overdischarge?
« Reply #17 on: February 24, 2012, 11:19:24 PM »
I have one of those 72v 40 amp controllers.

First ride at 48v 40-50 amps, my battery cells got warmish just on an average ride.  I opened the infinion controller and cut one of the two 20 amp shunts, problem solved, and I have not looked back..  I lost some power, but gained a lot of life in my packs.  My 15ah Lifepo4 pack is 2 years old now and I have not seen any decrease in range.. 

Unless you have Headway or A123 cells, cutting current via a shunt this isnt such a bad idea.  You may lose a little power.

Another thing was I did built an external shunt resistor from the shunts from some old GM contollers, I designed it to snap inline to my anderson connector.  So it was easily plug into the circuit, this saved me from opening my controller and pulling everything apart for a while and took some heat out of the contoller and tracks, good for testing..  The single remaining shunt I have inside my controller seems to taking the load fine.

I think the 40 amp controllers are bulit with a standard 36v pack system in mind with a 36>72v option.  As they are rated at 1500 watts 36v @40 amps on a 36v pack = .9 ohms resitance. @ 72v * .9 resistance = 80 amps brother.  Considering the added internal resistance on the other series battery Id peg it closer to 60 amps that you draw..

As you overvolt the currrent capacity increases though the controller over 40 amps.. 

Unless you test the current load through your battery and be sure, you may go through a few of the cheaper battery packs until you buy one rated for the job..
« Last Edit: February 24, 2012, 11:35:34 PM by Les »

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Offline Leslie

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Re: premature lvc by overdischarge?
« Reply #18 on: February 25, 2012, 05:42:47 AM »
I believe we have come to the stage where our BMS's should be capable with current limitting sofftware.

I look at a lot of BMS's and they only have shunts for current limitation. Yet they have fets to shut down for LVC. 

Using PWM to limit the current flow through these LVC FETS before the shunt or with more parallel higher resistance fets, IMO would make for better efficiency than to just be using shunts alone.  Lose the need for HCC, if the BMS even has this or its fast enough to shut down before failure,..  One could short a battery out and not blow the LVC output fets of the BMS and use a simple fuse for battery over current discharge protection.


A person with a 48v system can use a brushed controller and some average filter caps on the output and use the throttle of this brushed controller to controll the current, this idea can be installed into a BMS and regulated by the manufacturer or user to achieve better compatability to varying systems and add a better over current protection regime for the cells.

Manufactures could use this to limit their packs current abilitiues to spec,  Not unlike the Cycle analiyst can in some controllers.  Batteries are too expensive to play around with. 

Absolute max current needs to be controlled and set solid at the output stage of the pack IMO, and not essentially be a part of an inclusive series resistance of the BMS shunts and controller shunts added together.

The more protection pack manufacturers have against overloading cells, the more protection they have from unwanted returns..  Users will enjoy the added protection as it wont interfere with their modification tinkering of the controllers. 

Yeah take it to the limits is one thing. but who really wants to over draw current over their cells capablilty and specs?
« Last Edit: February 25, 2012, 05:56:59 AM by Les »

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Offline Enpro

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Re: premature lvc by overdischarge?
« Reply #19 on: March 06, 2012, 05:45:10 PM »
Ok I'm now running on a single 36v pack and its still sagging over 4v at peak draw. Is this normal for these packs with a 25amp controller?  I'm getting about 25km range out of it which seems pretty normal but the lvc already trips at 37/36.5v(-4V =33/32v)?
And does anyone know what the C rating of the limno2 packs are?
« Last Edit: March 06, 2012, 09:24:40 PM by Enpro »