Modify a Magic Controller Ver. 1

[Leslie]

Ohh its too late your fets is dung.

Sigh!

why cant GM bloody solder a board properly to begin with.  GRRRRRR!

[Leslie]

Rant ON

Sorry Dave I just feel let down.

They put this officer badge on me like I have something to do with this company, I just get tired of seeing failures and I try and try and they cant even respond to emails too busy jet setting about on our money I feel..


Rant Off.

Ok where to begin.

Undo that solder point before you try again..

Then we find you some fets for replacement.  This should be not too hard as it only a six fet board to find the bad fets and replace...

As long as you don't ride it hard when it failed it should only need one fet hopefully  .

Mark may help you out with the part number.

[o00scorpion00o]

Yet another magic controller dead! 

Sorry Dave, I know how you feel.

Okay I replaced the fet's with 6 of these

IRFB3207Z

It didn't work actually, so something else was toasted. Those IRFB320's are rated for 170 amps.

Dave, if you want my honest opinion, I would just lay the magic controller to rest and don't waste any more money on it. If you spend money on expensive FET's and it still doesn't work, well that's good money that could go on a different controller!

Also try and consider how much power you can actually get into that motor before it fry's. It looks similar to Leslie's HBS 1000 w motor, so maybe he can advise you better about it's power capabilities! If it's similar to my conhismotor 1kw motor, then The phase wires and motor used to get very warm @ 48volts 22 amps! So that told me not to increase the watts. I may have got more voltage in, I don't know!

Dave I think you have a few solutions,

1 Buy a different (non magic controller) controller rated for your motor.

2 Buy one of the infinion controllers I bought, from ebikes.ca and one option would be to buy the 40 amp with the direct plug in cycle analyst, which will mean you can adjust the current until you find the best balance between power and what's safe for your motor! The cycle analyst takes a second or a little less to kick in the limit, but is not a problem IMO.

The controller can with a simple resistor change, go up to 84 volts. I think this option would be the cheapest option in the long run if ever you decide to get the external controller Magic Pie motor, or any other motor. You won't have to buy another controller!

Best of luck!

Mark

[Dave Watson]

All done, but alas the 5 beeps of death. 
(unrelated to mods since it started prior to them).

I had been using the controller as it was set from factory; afterall, I ordered the controller (BAC-0282P 48V/50W) and the motor MW16B at the same time so GM knew the setting requirements.  And there was no manual with the controller so I followed the online wiring .pdf.

To anyone wiring in the controller for the first time - the wiring diagram for it shows the remote key switch (G) wired seperately from (B+).  But the harness for the controller had both leads crimped together??  The anti theft function can not operate wired in this manner so I wired the unit as per the diagram. 
Wired seperately, I observed that with the key off, twisting the throttle would cause the bike to move!!!  I should have suspected something was not right with the controller at this time (the soft kill was not working and they knew this at GM otherwise the leads would not have been combined).

Oh well, my new LYEN should get things rolling again.  And for the same price I paid for the Magic controller (the shipping is included with the LYEN).

Thanks for all the support Leslie and Mark.

[Leslie]

All done, but alas the 5 beeps of death.  
(unrelated to mods since it started prior to them).

I had been using the controller as it was set from factory; afterall, I ordered the controller (BAC-0282P 48V/50W) and the motor MW16B at the same time so GM knew the setting requirements.  And there was no manual with the controller so I followed the online wiring .pdf.

To anyone wiring in the controller for the first time - the wiring diagram for it shows the remote key switch (G) wired seperately from (B+).  But the harness for the controller had both leads crimped together??  The anti theft function can not operate wired in this manner so I wired the unit as per the diagram.  
Wired seperately, I observed that with the key off, twisting the throttle would cause the bike to move!!!  I should have suspected something was not right with the controller at this time (the soft kill was not working and they knew this at GM otherwise the leads would not have been combined).

Oh well, my new LYEN should get things rolling again.  And for the same price I paid for the Magic controller (the shipping is included with the LYEN).

Thanks for all the support Leslie and Mark.

 Looking at the solder point at the shunt there is one reason the fets can fail.  regen voltage can get up over the fets with no good pathe to the battery and worse your shunt would of been intermittent at best.

I just wished you saved it before you put it back together,   I am waiting for a day where I find an error and someone fixes it goes wow thanks it works now. LOL

I haven't had any wins for a while now.  It depressing me lately with all the failures and Im thinking about getting some serious therapy.  Maybe they should call the MC the magic emo.  Because thats how I feel at the moment.

Thanks for sharing.  The pics speak for themselves and at least we know now why some of these controllers have 15 amp limits.

[Spacey]

I noticed a few dodgy spots of solder on my controllers too, I just re soldered them, while I was beefing up the tracks.

It will be interesting Dave, to see how your modifications go as mine all went up in smoke! LOL

I had 1 set to 35 amps, It lasted a few weeks. I think the heat sink is absolutely not suitable for more than 20 amps. When I was pulling 35 amps from it it really roasted, I mean it was like touching the oven door! It could have been one of the reasons it died, However when it died I was not putting it under any stress at all and it was running cool, maybe the earlier heating up was the initial cause. I was going slow and the controller was not getting a lot of air. But I seriously think these controllers should be installed in another case with a good large heatsink. Maybe one of the reasons the more expensive controllers have 12-18 fet's ?

One other thing. If you modify the shunt, You will need to turn the amps down via the software cable. I had it set to around 8 amps continuous and 10 max to give me the 35 amps! Also do you have any device for monitoring your current consumption while riding your bike so you can monitor it?

I've been trying so hard to blow my controller after modding it. I've seen 3,500watts when pulling away lol and still the damn thing won't die. As you know I just soldered a massive blob of solder onto the shunts to give as many amps as the batteries could give.

The key thing maybe is that I have the heatsink directly in the path of incoming air and not covered up at all. The motor doesn't even get luke warm and the controller is warm to the touch when going up a steep long hill but not hot. Maybe it could be the extra heat sink paste I put on the Fets?

I'm not worried about blowing the controller as I have an Infinion 40amp controller on the way.

Scorpion I must hassle you for how you wire up your Infinion controller some day?

[Electrobent]

Are you noticing your customers going elsewhere to get quality?

[o00scorpion00o]

Hi Spacey,

As far as I remember, the Infineon controller wires match up the same way as the magic controllers.


Yellow-Yellow

Green-Green

Blue-Blue

Same for hall wires, Oh except I think the power wires on the halls were different. I think it was red-red
and maybe brown? I forget. I have it all covered up now in water proof tape!

[Sundsvall]

I can tell as soon as I got mine.

Peter

[MonkeyMagic]

Hey chaps

I have a 16" cast wheel I have wanted to see if I can spring back to life.

It has eaten 2 internal controllers, the original and the replacement. I still don't know if there could be something else internal that is causing the grief.

So I was going to go the infineon way but I thought that although that would be really nice as a spare if the wheel didn't work, but I ended up buying a no name from eBay

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180548555636&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

Its a 35amp 15fet controller and seemed a bit higher quality and similar to some that were $120

Can I ask you guys if you went the external way as a modification or a replacement of the failed internal controller? Only reason I didn't go GM was due to this post and a few others haha

Hey spacey is your beast still going? What kind of top speeds do you get and what battery pack do you run?

Cheers

[Leslie]

Two internal controllers?

Was this using lots of regen, maybe all but disable the regen

Test the inductance to see if the coils are wound properly.  Id honestly say this would rule out all possibilities your motor is responsible for the controllers death once and for all.

Get yourself a cheap Henry meter.  The ones on ebay don't do uH but can read a motor well enough at the .01mh.  Good enough to do most things like winding toroids and other fun projects,  The phase wires should have even inductance between them.


http://cgi.ebay.com/DM4070-LCR-Inductance-resistance-capacitance-meter-w-wa-/220605795894?pt=BI_Electrical_Equipment_Tools&hash=item335d214e36

This one above although a bit pricey has the 200uh range the other dont.

 Its best to test this with stator removed from the wheel as motor position over the poles can change the inductance values but you can turn the wheel slow to see the min and max inductance.  Im not sure but I think you can damage thoses meters if you turn a wheel too fast when testing.

[Leslie]

Hey chaps

I have a 16" cast wheel I have wanted to see if I can spring back to life.

It has eaten 2 internal controllers, the original and the replacement. I still don't know if there could be something else internal that is causing the grief.

So I was going to go the infineon way but I thought that although that would be really nice as a spare if the wheel didn't work, but I ended up buying a no name from eBay

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180548555636&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

Its a 35amp 15fet controller and seemed a bit higher quality and similar to some that were $120

Can I ask you guys if you went the external way as a modification or a replacement of the failed internal controller? Only reason I didn't go GM was due to this post and a few others haha

Hey spacey is your beast still going? What kind of top speeds do you get and what battery pack do you run?

Cheers

[Spacey]

Sorry for late reply.....

I use an Infineon 40amp controller with the Cycal Analyst to limit the amps when I'm not off road. Top speed is limited by the motor as nothing I can do to get it past 24mph max.

I like to keep it around 30amps max but have seen over 70amps on my modded controller that came with the MP kit. The battery pack I am using is a 12ah Headway 48v that runs normally around 54v but I still only get 24mph no matter how many amps I chuck at it. This battery pack is good for 70amps continuous and 160amps burst.

Hey chaps

I have a 16" cast wheel I have wanted to see if I can spring back to life.

It has eaten 2 internal controllers, the original and the replacement. I still don't know if there could be something else internal that is causing the grief.

So I was going to go the infineon way but I thought that although that would be really nice as a spare if the wheel didn't work, but I ended up buying a no name from eBay

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180548555636&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

Its a 35amp 15fet controller and seemed a bit higher quality and similar to some that were $120

Can I ask you guys if you went the external way as a modification or a replacement of the failed internal controller? Only reason I didn't go GM was due to this post and a few others haha

Hey spacey is your beast still going? What kind of top speeds do you get and what battery pack do you run?

Cheers

[Dave Watson]

Well just to add closure to this thread I started; I have been traveling 20km/day to work and back for the past 45 days.
Installed my 12 FET Lyen Edition controller (wired in with 10 guage), added a DP Cycle Analyst and then after some trial and error with the phase and hall sensor wiring sequence, Presto! 
The GM 1000W motor pulls very well uphill, 40 amp peak at 48 V on 12 degree grade (you do the math!).  The top cruise speed (flat) on the 16" cast motor is 32km/hr and pulls 8 amps continuous (total weight of me and my ride is 340 lbs - 18AH SLA account for 60 lbs of this total).  I wish I could switch to delta phase for higher speed.  Seen some crazy videos with a big high current relay being used to do this.  It requires some additional wiring to the motor?     
Anyway, next I am thinking of adding a battery to have a total of 60 V.  Top speed isn't going to change using a non geared hub motor, so the only way to decrease travel time is to keep a higher constant speed (climb the hills faster).  I have tried to find others who have done this with the GM motor but I have only found 9c motor modders.  I wonder just what the difference is when you buy a 24V/36V/48V hub motor from GM?  Are these motors the same?  Anyone here tried higher voltage packs on these stock motors?  Will it increase top speed?

[MonkeyMagic]

Hi Dave

You're using the cast 16"?
Yay I thought I was the only one here that used one haha

What bike are you running it on? I was so impressed with the torque of the 16" it's great.

I'll look into the wiring re-configuration too, maybe we can come up with something

peace out
MM