Author Topic: Questions with First ebike build  (Read 8558 times)

Offline Mogal

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Questions with First ebike build
« on: November 08, 2014, 03:12:29 AM »
Hello All!

I recently had my first experience renting an ebike, and quickly got hooked!
I am now considering kitting out my Karakoram GT with a Magic Pie Vector.

My biggest question/concern is with the brake levers.
The Karakoram has hydraulic brakes... so... how does that work with the Magic's levers?
Do I have to ditch the hydraulics and go cable?

How waterproof are these system?
I live on Vancouver Island, and it's pretty wet here (Think Seattle rain)

How much distance would be possible with the 48v10A lifepo4 battery...

Offline Bikemad

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Re: Questions with First ebike build
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2014, 12:42:48 PM »
Hi Mogal andto the forum.

The brake switches are a very important safety feature which is also a legal requirement in many countries.

The horn switch on the handlebars can be connected to the brake wire to allow regen braking to be used, but this would not comply with the legal requirements as  the power to the motor should be cut when either brake is activated.

The biggest problem with a separate switch is remembering to press it in an emergency. If your cruise is set at full throttle and you are happily cruising along at maximum speed, what happens if a car pulls out in front of you (or an animal runs out into the road) and you instinctively grab the brakes and try to stop as quickly as possible? You probably won't think about pressing the horn button first, so while you are trying to quickly stop, the motor is still producing maximum power which would put a lot of additional load on your braking system, greatly increasing your stopping distance and the likelihood of an accident, especially if your front wheel locks up while the rear wheel is still driving you forward!

Fitting a mechanical disc brake on the rear would prevent this situation, but a better alternative would be to fit some hydraulically operated switches to both the front and rear brake lines:



The more recent controllers appear to be well sealed against water problems, and I've just discovered this video showing how much water the motors can still operate in. Although it seems to work fine in the video, I wouldn't want to try that test with mine.

The battery is definitely not 100% waterproof and should be fitted with a suitable waterproof cover if you intend to use it (or leave it out) in heavy rain.

The available range on the 48V 10Ah will vary tremendously from one rider to another, and is hugely affected by power settings, speed, weight, inclines, headwinds, and also by the amount of pedal effort you are actually providing.
Check out Bartek's Bike Range Simulator for more details.

Alan
 

Offline OCD

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Re: Questions with First ebike build
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2014, 02:46:08 PM »
Hi Mogul:

I'm on Van Isle too. I'm located in Nanaimo, there are quite a few of us ebikers here, where are you located?

(the other) Alan  8)

Offline Mogal

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Re: Questions with First ebike build
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2014, 09:29:46 PM »
Hi Alan(s)!
I live in the Colwood area (Victoria)

Thanks for the info... Been looking into this a little more.
It seems that I would have to cut my brake lines in order to install the 'T' line adaptor.
- Is there a screw in adaptor instead of cutting lines?
- Does that plug directly plug into the controller? or is it cut and hard wired in?
- Currently looking into hall sensors

I'm strongly leaning towards this system from Golden Motors:
http://www.goldenmotor.ca/products/Magic-Pie-4-%28VECTOR%29-700c-Rear-Conversion-Kit.html

It says it has power brake levers, but no picture or info.
- I would assume its a cable system?

Oh, and I meant to ask what kind of rolling resistance is there when 'coasting'

Thanks guys!
Chris

Offline Bikemad

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Re: Questions with First ebike build
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2014, 11:09:18 PM »
Hi Chris,

That is the only hydraulic switch that I have seen so far, but there may be others available.
The plug would need to be cut off and the lead from the GM brake switches would need to be soldered to it.
There are other DIY methods of converting the hydraulic levers including micro switches, reed switches and hall sensors, but using hall sensors would require three wires instead of just two for the additional 5V supply which the GM brake switches don't use.

The GM levers are meant for cable brakes and use a very simply push to break switch which is pushed open when the brake lever is released and closes the circuit when brakes are applied:


I don't think the rolling resistance is too bad below 10mph but it does become a lot more noticeable as the speed increases.
This is Gary's interpretation of the resistance.

Alan
 
« Last Edit: July 05, 2017, 04:13:51 PM by Bikemad »

Offline Mogal

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Re: Questions with First ebike build
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2014, 11:46:13 PM »
Quote
thinking about peddling without power and using the motor to only climb hills is not realistic
uhm, don't like that one  :-\

From the Manuals, I was able to find a different brake switch, but doesn't explain it at all.
Manual: http://www.devi-comfort.com/motion-uploads/handleiding_DIY_GB_v1.0.5.pdf
Brake Switch: http://www.devi-motion.com/webshop::productlist/D1000597.html

I have no idea of what hydraulic pressures are needed, but I found this:
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Motorcycles-ATV-Brake-pressure-switch-Light-Banjo-Bolt-Yamaha-Suzuki-Honda-/251705439977?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3a9ad036e9&vxp=mtr

Best I have found, is that the hydraulic brake lines use a m10x1.0 tread.
If that's the case, a simple Y adaptor can be made, and the switch could be screwed in place (Without cutting lines)

Do you know, or could you verify the thread pitch on the hydraulic connectors?

Thanks Again!

Oh, and just for clarification, The brake switch will disable the cruse control, and activate the regen correct?
(So it would be possible to ride the bike without the switch, just considering the safety hazard?)

Offline Bikemad

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Re: Questions with First ebike build
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2014, 02:19:18 AM »
Quote
thinking about peddling without power and using the motor to only climb hills is not realistic

I have used my Magic Pie without the battery connected when I have been for cycle rides along the cycle paths alongside canals and had no problem staying with my wife, but she is not the fastest of cyclists. Above 10mph you begin to feel the drag from the motor and will need to pedal harder than on a conventional bike to go much faster.

The brake switch shown in those manuals appears to be a mechanical switch that can be fitted to existing cable operated brake lever units, not hydraulic ones.
Those cable mounted switches allow you to easily convert combined brake and gear lever units like these for ebike use:


I have no idea what the thread pitch is likely to be on the bike's hydraulic connectors, but this post might give you a better understanding of how to measure it.

Yes, either of the brake switches will cut the motor power and activate regen (and will also disengage the cruise function if it is engaged).

Alan
 
« Last Edit: May 14, 2021, 07:11:55 PM by Bikemad »

Offline Hastings

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Re: Questions with First ebike build/brakes
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2014, 07:09:41 PM »

There are several hydraulic brake systems but is difficult to buy them or get info the are sold to E-bike producers by an large or OEMed.
I ended up designing my own Hall switches as I could not get hold of   the handles only including hydraulic master cylinders as I didn’t want to change my shimano wheel hydraulic brakes due to compatibility issues.

Magura has two different solutions as you can see in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cp9g9tQNczs
Tektro has these http://www.tektro.com/_english/01_products/01_prodetail.php?pid=155&sortname=Disc&sort=1&fid=1

Hygia has thes http://hygia.com.tw/prod-brake01-8.html
They used to have a web shop...

These might work and you don’t ruin yourself if they dont:
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/electric-bicycle-brake-sensor-for-Hydraulic-Brake-System/904105_1117778378.html

 

Offline Morgen 3Eman

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Re: Questions with First ebike build
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2014, 08:10:39 PM »

Hi, Mogal

If you already own the bike with hydraulic brakes, how about googling the brake brand to see if they make a mastercylinder with a brake light switch built in? 

Personally, I have hydraulics from a scooter, and I would never go back to cable brakes.  (Or bike hydraulics, either) My master cylinder has a brake light switch built in.  And I only paid $80 for the master/2 slaves/2 discs/hoses:)

Just something to consider.

TTFN,
Dennis

Offline Mogal

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Re: Questions with First ebike build
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2014, 10:37:37 PM »
There is some good info gathering here  :)

Never considered googling my brakes.
But now that I have, still seems to be nothing out there.
The Levers are: Shimano m395

I can't seem to find Levers that already have them (switches) built in?
Care to post some brands/examples?

Dennis would you mind posting more details of what you have done?

Chris

Offline Morgen 3Eman

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Re: Questions with First ebike build
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2014, 05:24:51 AM »
Hi Mogal
 Here is where I bought mine.  Take a look and see if you find something you like/ can use.

http://www.eagleatvparts.com/index.php?cPath=7&sort=2a&page=2&osCsid=d5d0467d779ba5bada002014aa9380ef

TTFN,
Dennis

Offline Morgen 3Eman

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Re: Questions with First ebike build
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2014, 05:13:18 PM »
By the way, I think Alan's suggestion to put pressure switches in the existing system is probably the easiest and cheapest way to go.

Dennis
 

Offline Oslo.ebike

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Re: Questions with First ebike build
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2015, 12:13:16 PM »
Here's an alternative solution if you want to keep your expensive hydraulic brakes and still have the regen function.

I came into the unfortunate position of having ordered hydraulic sensors from Golden Motor for a customer, only to wait 5 months to receive notice that GM wouldn't be able to supply them. This, after the customer had already purchased the hydraulic brakes for the bike.

The solution we came up with is in my opinion better than the hydraulic sensor, and has the advantage of using the mechanical sensor (which is still available) with the electrical connector that fits the GM wiring connections. The solution requires a simple electrical connector crimped onto a short length of brake cable, a rivet and the mechanical sensor from GM.



Cheers,

David
Oslo E-bike Coop

Offline Mogal

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Re: Questions with First ebike build
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2015, 01:59:59 AM »
nice!

I have however purchased a different bike with mechanical disk brakes...
If I ever decide to convert the mountain bike, will definitely keep this in mind.