Golden Motor external controller phase calibration

[Massacr3]

Hello,

I have a problem. I have the GM external controller and wanted to use it on my motor but can't get it to work. When I connect it to my motor and twist the throttle nothing happens. When I push or pull the bike and at the same time twist the throttle, the engine at least gives me signs of life - it starts to "brake". I also tried to run in hall sensorless and I get the same effect - only the "braking" is not that smooth. Tried to change the combination of the 3 wires coming from the engine and that didnt work also - but I am not sure if I tested all the possible solutions.

Then I thought of calibrating the phase angle as it says is the manual... cut the power off, pressed throttle, brakes and looped the cruise wire... put the power on and released the throttle, brakes and unlooped the cruise wires but I hear no beeps confirming the success of my action. Also tried to turn the wheel forward and backwards... nothing.

Any ideas, what am I doing wrong?

Best regades,
M.

[Bikemad]

Hi andto the forum.

It would be helpful to have some information on the motor you're connecting to, but presumably it has three thick phase wires and five thin Hall Sensor wires?

I'm not sure whether the current controllers can be calibrated like the earlier ones, so if the motor phase angle is not compatible with the 120° default controller setting then you may have to change the controller settings using the USB interface cable and software instead.

Did this controller work OK on another motor?

What voltage battery pack are you using?

If it is a geared motor with an internal freewheel unit, it is unlikely to work in sensorless mode.

You may need to try changing the combinations of the hall sensor signal wires as well as the phase wires until you find the right combination that runs correctly.

I would try checking the operation of the hall sensors using a voltmeter to check for high and low voltage readings between each of the hall signal wires and the black ground connection when the wheel is turned slowly.
You will need to turn the wheel in a backwards direction to test the hall signal voltages if it is a geared motor.

Alan
 

[Massacr3]

Greetings again,

Yes you were right. The motor is a brushless 3-phase 5-hall sensored one. Presumably it is also a 120 degree phase one, because the stock controller was marked as a 120 degree controller.

The GM controller was used on a Magic Pie motor before  and worked perfectly.

My battery pack is 36Volts.

Presuming I have a wrong combination of phases and hall wires - is it normal for the engine to not move at all? It doesnt even vibrate or make any noise until I get it to speed and twist the throttle. And even then the motor doesnt work to benefit me, it either regens or brakes using energy.

Will try to switch the hall sensor wires when I get the time and if I see any progress I will let you know.

Regades,
M.

[Leslie]

You details on motor is insufficient.  Yes your sensors and phases may be out.

Have you tried the appropriate combinations? . 

Only a slight pull on the throttle on each wire change is advised.

The hall sensor order should match the phase wire color order.  Meaning your combinations "should" be refined to at least keeping the hall colour changes, the same as the phase wires changes or vise-versa..  Unless the motor is wired incorrectly then you have to more combinations beyond what I suggest below.  But first things first.

EG:

Switch bike off

We make the controller wires our primary lead points.  So when we say "swap or connect yellow to blue" You connect the yellow controller wire to the blue motor wire.

When I say swap, you just swap the two colours mentioned, on both controller and motor.


Swap yellow and blue, both hall and phase wires, swtich bike on, twist throttle a little, if fail, switch bike off, and put back in correct order.

Swap green and blue, both hall and phase wires. Swap yellow and blue, both hall and phase wires, swtich bike on, twist throttle a little, if fail, switch bike off, and put back in correct order.

Swap yellow and green.  both hall and phase wires. Swap yellow and blue, both hall and phase wires, swtich bike on, twist throttle a little, if fail, switch bike off, and put back in correct order.

Connect yellow to blue, green to yellow, and blue to green. Both hall and phase wires. swtich bike on, twist throttle,

if fail

Switch bike off

Connect yellow to green, blue to yellow, and green to blue.  Both hall sensors and phase wires. swtich bike on, Twist throttle a little. 


If fail,

Switch bike off and report here..

Thank you.

[Leslie]

Methodical means to test all 3 phase BLDC colour combinations below.

I split the combinations into two groups.

Typical Colour Combinations.  This is the most likely of all combinations.

And

Irregular colour Combinations. Rare but sometimes a motor and or contoller manufacturer can get the hall and phase wires wrong or use different colours.  It does happen occasionally.

This being a good way to save a lot of time by just focussing on the common combination first, rather than do all combinations, and probably get lost along the way.


To keep things sane we make some general rules.

When we say "swap yellow and blue", we make the controller wires our primary starting point, so we just "swap" the two colours mentioned: "Swap" Yellow contoller wire to blue motor wire, and blue controller wire to yellow motor wire. AKA a "swap". Capiche?

When we say "connect" Yellow to blue: Again we make the controller wires our primary starting point. We "connect" the yellow controller wire to the blue motor wire and follow to the next connection colour  No two wires on the controller to motor in "connect" will match colours.  So no swaping is done.  Capiche?

Put back in colour order or start again:This is so we don't get muddled up.  It is better to start from scratch or ordered colours.

It saves some text, it keeps everything methodical, and keeps the instructions to a smaller wall of text.

Easy to remember rules.

Keep in mind, at the "typical" combination level, there are only three "swap" combinations where only one controller/hall wires must be connected to the same colour phase wire. And only two "connect" combinations where no wire can be the same.  If you complete all 3 swap combos first, and try a "connect" combination that two are the same you are repeating a swap combination.



Try typical combinations first.

Typical colour combinations

1: "Swap" yellow and blue, leaving green to green, both hall and phase wires, swtich bike on, twist throttle a little, if fail, switch bike off.

2: "Swap" green and blue, leaving yellow to yellow, both hall and phase wires, swtich bike on, twist throttle a little, if fail, switch bike off.

3: "Swap" yellow and green, leaving blue to blue,  both hall and phase wires,  swtich bike on, twist throttle a little, if fail, switch bike off.

4: "Connect" yellow to blue, green to yellow, and blue to green. Both hall and phase wires. swtich bike on, twist throttle, if fail Switch bike off.

5: "Connect" yellow to green, blue to yellow, and green to blue.  Both hall sensors and phase wires. swtich bike on, Twist throttle a little. If fail, switch bike off


Put all wires back in colour order, test halls, start again and proceed to Irregular combinations.






It maybe then time to test your hall sensors to see if they all work. 

But shouldnt there be OMG hall sensor failure, Magic controller bbeeeeeeppppps.


If they are working! Then or just try irregular combinations below



Irregular colour combinations, providing you have tried the typical combinations above, Eg if motor or controller is wired incorrectly or has a phase or hall colour that differs from controller to motor..


In the rare situation there are different colours than yellow green blue.  Assign each odd colour with coloured YGB electrical tape.


Easy to remember general rule.  You ommit the configuration of hall wires that has already been done in the typical combinations part of this post (see above), it is the same as step 1: (see below) in the preceeding phase wire combination. l quoted in each paragraph "leave this way".

1: "Swap" yellow and blue, leaving green  to green, phase wires. and "leave this way".

2: Then "swap" green and blue hall wires, leaving  yellow to yellow. Switch bike on. twist and if fail, bike off.

3: Then "swap" yellow and green, leaving blue to blue hall wires, switch bike on. twist and if fail, bike off.

4: Then "connect" yellow to blue, green to yellow, and blue to green hall wires.  Switch bike on. twist and if fail, bike off.

5: Then "connect" yellow to green, blue to yellow, and green to blue hall wires.  Switch bike on. twist and if fail, bike off.


Put all wires back in colour order or start again


1: "Swap" green and blue, leaving yellow to yellow phase wires and "leave this way" go to next step..

2: Then "swap" yellow and blue, leaving green to green, hall wires. Green matches, Switch bike on. twist and if fail, bike off..

3: Then "swap" yellow and green, leaving blue to blue, hall wires.  Blue matches Switch bike on. twist and if fail, bike off.

4: Then "connect" yellow to blue, green to yellow, and blue to green hall wires. Switch bike on. twist and if fail, bike off.

5: Then "connect" yellow to green, blue to yellow, and green to blue hall wires. Switch bike on. twist and if fail, bike off.


Put all wires back in colour order, or start again.



1: "Swap" yellow and green, leaving blue to blue, phase wires, "leave this way" go to next step.

2: Then "swap" yellow and blue, leaving green to green hall wires. Switch bike on. twist and if fail, bike off.

3: Then "swap" green and blue, leaving yellow to yellow. hall wires. Switch bike on. twist and if fail, bike off

4: Then "connect" yellow to blue, green to yellow, and blue to green hall wires. Switch bike on. twist and if fail, bike off. 

5: Then "connect" yellow to green, blue to yellow, and green to blue hall wires. Switch bike on. twist and if fail, bike off.


Put all wires back in colour order, or start again.


1: "Connect" yellow to blue, green to yellow, and blue to green phase wires, "leave this way" go to next step.

2: Then "swap" yellow and blue, leaving green to green, hall wires . Switch bike on. twist and if fail, bike off.

3: Then "swap" green and blue, leaving yellow to yellow, hall wires. Switch bike on. twist and if fail, bike off. Put back hall wires only in correct order.

4: Then "swap" yellow and green, leaving blue to blue hall wires. Switch bike on. twist and if fail, bike off. Put back hall wires only in correct order.

5: Then "connect" yellow to green, blue to yellow, and green to blue hall wire wires. Switch bike on. twist, and if fail, bike off.


Put all wires back in colour order, or start again.


1: "Connect" yellow to green, blue to yellow, and green to blue phasel wires and "leave this way" go to next step.

2: Then swap yellow and blue, leaving green to green hall wires. Switch bike on. twist and if fail, bike off..

3: Then swap green and blue, leaving yellow to yellow hall wires. Switch bike on. twist and if fail, bike off. Put back hall wires only in correct order.

4: Then Swap yellow and green, leaving blue to blue, hall wires. Switch bike on. twist and if fail, bike off. Put back hall wires only in correct order.

5: Then "connect' yellow to blue, green to yellow, and blue to green hall wires.. Switch bike on. twist, and if fail, bike off.


Put all wires back in colour order or start again.


When you find the correct combinations correct the controller or motor colours with heat shrink. Motor or controller can be corrected depending on which one is practical. 

Using the above method I can do all combinations in my head without marking it down.  You will get the hang of it pretty soon.

[Massacr3]

Thanks for the superb answers,

The sensors seem to be working, atleast they give me voltage readings of about 0.0 - 4.5volts when moving the wheel, all of them.

But still, I havent gotten it to work. I tried all the possible solutions of wiring halls and phases together but still nothing.
Ofcourse it is possible that I missed a few by accident and I am going to give it another try when I have the chance.

Swapping the red and black wire on the halls ? Any point ?
I'm not that into electricity 

Also could the throttle be an issue ?

The motor is this one - http://www.ev-power.eu/EVBike-Kits-1-1/E-bike-conversion-kit-EVBike-36V-500W-Front.html
Not much information about it from there...

Regades,
M.

[Leslie]

Do not swap red and black.  These are the power leads.  Hall sensor works by a magnet breaking down the positive input to the positive output.  Ground black is just a means to sink the positive output into ground.  If ground is removed the hall will be on.  It is that you witness all hall latch on and then latch off. 

A hall producing 4.5v on a coloured wire that does not go to 0v rotating the wheel all is a failed hall sensor.  The 0v is the important reading.

Also you can test the controller out on the MP again, it may be a bit of a pain but this would insure that the controller is still working, and if it still works, then there is some thing wrong with your other non GM motor, or you missed a combination.