Ever wound a motor?

[Bob91403]

I know there's a few of you out there. If you've ever wound a motor, you'll probably understand where I'm coming from. Even if you haven't, there's only some basic physics involved. Is anyone familiar with the use of aluminum core, copper covered wire in motors? I have a source for the wire, and they put all kinds of coatings on them. The simple premise is to decrease the weight while maintaining EM force. The conductivity is a little lower, but the weight savings is substantial. Especially, when you consider that you are lowering the rotational mass of the only moving part. Anybody know if there's any alternatives to the heavy steel plates you wind the wire around? Ferrous composites? Again, to the same end, if you can lower the weight of a part, you make the motor more efficient. Thoughts, ideas? Of course rotational mass would not apply to hub motors, that part doesn't move, the magnets move around it, but it would make the motor lighter.

[Bikemad]

Especially, when you consider that you are lowering the rotational mass of the only moving part.

Bob,
 
Most hub motors are based on the outrunner design, the windings and the stator (the heavy steel plates you wind the wire around) are fixed to the axle and do not rotate.
It's the permanent magnets, which are fixed to the inside of the hub that actually rotate, as you can see here:



The weight of the windings and stator will not affect the rotational mass at all, but a lighter motor would mean a lighter and therefore more efficient bike!


Alan

[Bob91403]

Thanks, Alan. I added that just a minute later. Did you not understand the question?

[Leslie]

I tried and gave up.

I was going ok along the stator but I always wasnt happy unless the winding looked perfect and I always wanted more copper fill than I could replicate on each former.

The motor I tried to wind had some insulator on the sides of the stator formers that was melted, "reason why I tried to rewind it" it was hard to get the former paper around each former to avoid the former from cutting into the wires.

Its a project I may undertake again one day.  I will be happy to provide you with any information I gathered along the way if you need it.

[Bikemad]

Thanks, Alan. I added that just a minute later. Did you not understand the question?

I understood the question perfectly when I first read it, but my attention was immediately drawn to your comment of "lowering the rotational mass" so immediately hit the "Reply" tab and started to write my reply (before you amended your post).
Before I could complete and post my response, I had to stop to do something more important.
When I returned and completed the post, I previewed it before posting just to check the diagram was correctly displayed.  As I did not get the usual red warning message telling me someone has already responded, I did not bother to re-read the thread and simply posted my reply as normal.

Now, here's my answer you original question:

Yes, I've wound plenty, my favourite is my Honda CB750 Custom, it has a four into one exhaust and sounds lovely when you really wind it (accelerating up to 9,000 rpm while going through a tunnel sounds fantastic!).
When I was a lot younger, I had a Honda CB125T (125cc twin cylinder four stroke bike), which on one occasion I wound it right through the red and out the other side to 14,000 rpm.

The only motor that I have actually wound using copper wire, was constructed from a cork and a plastic knitting needle similar to this:



And yes, it did work.  

Alan
 

[Hardcore]

Hey Alan, I did that to. Worked great! And it's nice to put a propeller on it so the heat of the summer wasn't to bad.

[Leslie]

I wound a magnet gun from a CDW spindle that fired a magnet through the plaster wall.  I used copper and a more than a dozen turns I forget, inserted magnet into spindle centre and I hooked up to 24v SLA and doink.  Burnt my hand and I hooked it up the wrong polarity so it didnt work first go.  Next time I set it up right so the magnet was sure to be propelled in the right direction.  Rewound a new CDW spindle a littler longer and made sure I wouldnt burn my hands hooked it up and shlock straight through the wall.  My other half started to get upset so I stopped right there.

 

I want to experiment doing this stuff with big high voltage caps.  Nahhh basic stuff that's dangerous.  Design weapons for police or some dub thing.  No fun

[Bob91403]

No fun? That seems like the most fun! There aren't too many of us out there who've built their own magnetic rail gun. I tip my hat to you, sir. Mine had similar results. But, I sure wouldn't let some bitch, (Sorry, I'm sure your wife is a lovely person.) tell me what to do. You're whipped. Along that line, do you know anyone who's done work regarding the use of electric motors and a bank of discharge capacitors? It's my understanding that relatively low voltages can be used to generate enormously strong magnetic fields using discharge capacitors. They reportedly cause less of a magnetic memory in the armature, because of their short duration, giving a more complete reversal of polarity. Someone will actually build a flux capacitor some day. You won't be able to travel "back to the future", but you will have a more efficient motor.  

[Leslie]

No fun? That seems like the most fun! There aren't too many of us out there who've built their own magnetic rail gun. I tip my hat to you, sir. Mine had similar results. But, I sure wouldn't let some bitch, (Sorry, I'm sure your wife is a lovely person.) tell me what to do. You're whipped.

LOL I try.  She don't back down man.  

Ah as for the rail gun, not a feat of ultimate engineering

I did burn my hands on the coil copper and it was insulated 10 amp ac wire so it melted the plastic.  I did it about 2 years ago.

I remember now.

I can remember now I didnt use a magnet.  I was trying to join the dots on how I managed to make it work so I made sh!t up.  I used a small bolt.  

The first attempt was me trying to time it to work.

I had to tap the wire on the terminals Im sure I used 2X12ah batts 24v 10 amp insulated wire.

And I had to hit the wire quickly to propel the bolt.  The bolt went through the wall plaster. This much is true and not making sh!t up.

This is how I would repeat the experiment.  Bigger AWG coil than I have here and more copper fill for higher volts.




And use big 100v 22000uf 88000uf total capacitors like this,  




I would do some math around the coil and discharge time to fully empty the caps out in a single shot. Caps this size at 100v DC this is watch what your doing stuff. .

One big whack of energy.

This cap are hard to get and very expensive, I found these in a garbage bin near a TV repair shop.


Edit.

Memories return in waves.

Ohhh and I think the Mrs was concerned about the lil ones running around at the time.  It didn't take much whip to make me back off.  I was to expect any improvements to the experiment like the above, It could get serious.  I kinow much more about things now than I did then.