Boat throttle mod runs motor in reverse…

[Rossfree21@gmail.com]

Hi all,

I’m converting a Prout 45 catamaran to electric. I’ll have two 10kw GM motors and boat throttles. I am mounting the throttles together with one throttle stick moved from the left to right side. This reverses the hall sensor so that pushing the stick forward puts the motor in reverse.

Does anyone know a simple way to wire this so the reverse is true?

Thank you

Ross

[Bikemad]

Hi Ross,

Now I have to figure out a way to reverse the throttle voltage so the motor turns the opposite direction. I want to put two throttles side by side as you would see on a boat. The housings are designed to allow you to move the throttle handle to the opposite side. I’m sure swapping wires is easy enough. I’m just not familiar with hall sensors to do it.

If it was a potentiometer throttle, then you could simply reverse the Red and Black wires on the potentiometer terminals, but you cannot reverse the voltage polarity on an electronic Hall Sensor.

Are you sure that moving the lever to the opposite side of the throttle housing actually reverses the motor's direction of rotation, or could it be that your motor simply runs in the wrong direction regardless of which side of the throttle housing the lever is fitted?

If simply moving the lever to the opposite side of the throttle housing does actually reverse the motor's direction of rotation (i.e. the motor shaft rotates counterclockwise when forward throttle is applied) then the throttle unit will need to be altered somehow to allow the correct rotation of the motor, or the regenerative braking (and cruise control) would only work in reverse. 

I don't know what throttles you are using or if it's possible to either rotate the lever 180 degrees when it is swapped to the other side of the housing. Perhaps the curved magnetic strip on the lower end of the lever that controls the Hall Sensor signal can be rotated 180 degrees so that its magnetic poles are effectively reversed.

However, if moving the handle to the opposite side of the throttle housing does not alter the motors direction of rotation (i.e. the motor shaft still rotates clockwise when forward throttle is applied) then the motor's default direction of rotation will need to be reversed by altering the configuration of the Phase and Hall Sensor wiring if the default direction of rotation is wrong for your particular installation.
Check out this post for further details.

Also, if you were planning on fitting a counterclockwise propeller on one hull (as is often done on dual drive systems) to balance out the torque reaction of the two propellers, you would still need to reverse the default direction of rotation on one of the motors, but I don't suppose contra-rotating motors and propellers would make any noticeable difference on a catamaran.

Alan
 

[Rossfree21@gmail.com]

As designed, if you move the handle to the opposite side the hall sensor goes with it.

[Bikemad]

As designed, if you move the handle to the opposite side the hall sensor goes with it.

If the Hall Sensor unit had a spindle at each end it would be relatively easy to swap it around, but from your picture, that unit does not look like it could be easily reversed.
It looks like your easiest option will be to reconfigure the Phase wires and Hall Sensor wires as previously mentioned to get the motor to run in the required direction.

You'll need to make sure that the settings for Forword Speed ratio (%), Backword Speed ratio (%) and Reverse torque ratio (%) are all set to the same value (presumably 100%).

I know that on some controllers the regenerative braking and cruise control function do not work when using a linear throttle with "switched" Reverse, but as you will not be using a separate switch to engage reverse (and you won't need a cruise function with a fixed position boat throttle) it may not be a problem.

If you don't yet have a brake switch to engage regen it might be worth temporarily bridging the brake wires with the motor running in each direction and see what happens. If the motor stops quickly then regen is probably working, but if it slows down gradually then regen is definitely not working.

If you're using the three position switch (Economy, Normal and Sport) make sure this also works in reverse.

If you are not intending to use the regen function to charge the battery while sailing, then it shouldn't matter if regen doesn't work with the reversed throttle lever in the forward position.

The only drawback that I am aware of with the regenerative braking function is that some controllers continually emit a series of 15 beeps during regen, as it constantly reminds you that the brakes are applied (the brake switch has to be permanently switched On to engage the regen function.)

Alan
 

[Tommycat]

Having worked exclusively only with hall sensored throttles for E-bikes. If I were to imagine what a POTENTIOMETER type boat throttle would look like internally, it would look like your picture. 

This can be easily electrically checked by seeing what the output voltage of the throttle is.

A potentiometer will provide 0-5vdc.
A hall sensored throttle will provide .8 to ~4.2vdc.

EDIT UPDATE:  Although this generally holds true for E-bike throttles, boat and foot throttles can incorporate hall sensor throttles that can mimic a potentiometer's 0-5vdc output. See further discussions below.   

Hopefully, if it is a potentiometer throttle, just follow Bikemad's instructions above on how to reverse the voltage output.

You are mounting the throttles side by side for ease of use.  Will you always want to move them in unison, or do you want the ability to have one propelling forward, and one reversed?
The reason I ask, is that I believe it would be possible to slave both controllers to one throttle if desired.


Regards,
T.C.

[Bikemad]

Hi T.C.

I don't think it's a potentiometer as it looks very similar to this rotary Hall Sensor to me:



If it were a potentiometer I would expect have its resistance value clearly marked instead of "VCC"  and "Out":



From the underside view, it looks like it is a TRC-010 Joystick throttle, which definitely uses a rotary Hall Sensor:

You are mounting the throttles side by side for ease of use.  Will you always want to move them in unison, or do you want the ability to have one propelling forward, and one reversed?
The reason I ask, is that I believe it would be possible to slave both controllers to one throttle if desired.

I suspect most of the time they would be moved in unison but independent operation would come in very handy for manoeuvring a twin hulled catamaran while docking, as one can be pulled back while the other is pushed forward to allow the boat to rotate almost on its own axis - a bit like manoeuvring a tank.

Alan
 

[Tommycat]

Hi Alan,
Thank you for the information. I totally agree with you that this must be a hall sensored throttle.

https://www.miromax.lt/en/m-6/c-32/c-120-for_manage_and_control/product-753-speed_throttle_for_boat__water_transport

Seems like these types are preferred in boat and foot throttle applications. Perhaps because of sufficient size location in which to put them, although a bit more expensive.

Ross: I see where this type of hall sensor can be procured as either clockwise or counterclockwise operation if that's something you'd like to pursue. Available in different degrees of movement.
An example...

https://www.amazon.com/Effect-Potentiometer-Encoder-Sensor-Degree/dp/B09VXSCDLQ/ref=asc_df_B07SXFBN5D/?tag=&linkCode=df0&hvadid=385182567079&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=2208912369662316459&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9021838&hvtargid=pla-824197173971&ref=&adgrpid=80210700644&th=1

Curious if the shaft can keep spinning, or if it has stops.  And what the output is if it can keep rotating. (does it go from high to low?)

I would imagine that there is a basic electronic solution also, if you're up for something like that.