Smart Pie vector 4 troubleshooting

[Beardamabobs]

OK,

I've been troubleshooting this thing for a few days now.  I had just received my Smart Pie 4 vector (front wheel) kit from
Golden Motor Canada, flipped the bike over, mounted the wheel, and plugged it in to test it out.  First I connected the USB
cable to my computer to set the voltage (set it to 36V) and verify the other settings (left them at default), that went
fine.  Next I tried the throttle and all I got was about a constant 200 RPMs no matter if the throttle was barely cracked
or all the way open.  It's basically an on/off switch.  Also the brake levers seem to work like a throttle. If you depress
them while the wheel is spinning you get the same 200 RPM, and when you let them go the wheel coasts to a stop same as with
the throttle, and no ebraking.  I played with all the RPM and braking settings, (enabled/disabled, 100RPM-700RPM, min to
max decel and amps) ...nothing. Disconnected the brakes and cruise control (the cruise does seem to work at least) and just
left the throttle...same behavior.   Also, the motor seems to get way too hot for just spinning with no load.  My digital
thermometer shows the motor case at around 160F/70C (too hot to touch for more than a moment) after only a few seconds of
spinning the wheel.  So then I made sure the battery was fully charged, double checked all the pins and wiring.  This kit
came with the pedelec plug pre-cut off, so I also stripped the bundle insulation back and isolated the four wires where the
pedelec plug had been just in case there was a short, same for the lights and horn wires--No fault found.  Here's a link to
a short 30 second video that shows how it's acting.  Anyone seen this kind of thing before?


https://youtu.be/aozUOs7NlH4

[Bikemad]

Hi andto the forum.

The only time I have experienced symptoms like the ones in your video was when I fitted an MP4 vector controller in a non-vector MPIII motor.

Mine also worked like an On/Off switch giving all or nothing at one position of the throttle movement, and applying the brakes allowed to motor to continue running with the throttle fully released and would continue to run until the brake lever was eventually released.

I didn't run mine for long enough to notice the motor getting warm, so I don't know whether the overheating problem was the same.

I suggest you contact Gary and raise a support ticket and see what he suggests.

I would recommend first checking the Phase wire connections on the controller to make sure they are connected to the correct terminals.  If they are connected correctly, it might be a faulty controller, or possibly the wrong stator winding configuration for the vector controller.

Alan
 

[GM Canada]

The only time I have experienced symptoms like the ones in your video was when I fitted an MP4 vector controller in a non-vector MPIII motor.

Alan

Hi Alan,

You should be a little more clear at how difficult it would be to fit a MP4 controller into a MP3 wheel. I sent this gentleman here to ask you opinion as it is a very unusual situation. But your response now has him thinking I have sent him an old motor with a new controller.

Please explain to him what a rediculas waste of time that would be for someone to attempt to do this and no one has been able to get it to work anyway. I have 100's of brand new motors in stock. Why would I do such a thing. My reputation is a little above trying to scam people lol.

Anyway, since it is such an unusual situation I just told him to ship it back for a replacement.

Gary

[Beardamabobs]

Hi Alan,

Thanks for the fast, concise and unbiased response!  No other response or explanation needed, my suspicions are my own, not the result of anything you did.  Sorry if it got awkward, customer service should know better.   As far as a replacement, that remains to be seen.

Thanks again,
Nate

[GM Canada]

No need to call me customer service. My name is Gary. I usually assume most people that buy from me do so because they have read or heard about me in some way. I guess thinking that way is a little pompous but in most cases it is true. If there is any doubt that I will attend to your needs just click search up in the top left and type "Gary Warranty" and you will see I don't let people down.

I can tell by your post here and in the support ticket on my website you are somewhat upset and it is easy to understand. Who wants to buy something for a substantial amount of money, wait for it to arrive and after hours of setup time find it does not work as expected. This is why when these situations arise I do my best to act fast and resolve the issue at no extra cost to the customer other than some wasted time. Unfortunately time I can not fix. When all is said and done and this wasted time is over you will be zooming down the road like the rest of us and realize you made the right decision.

So please allow me a little time to correct the situation and get you into a much happier position.

Gary

[GM Canada]

The only time I have experienced symptoms like the ones in your video was when I fitted an MP4 vector controller in a non-vector MPIII motor.

Alan

Hi Alan, did you document this anywhere in the forum? It would be great to have a link to it That I could refer to when people ask.

Gary

[Beardamabobs]

Hi Alan,

Thanks again for your help last September.  As a result, I did receive a replacement for the defective kit from Golden Motor Canada.  Unfortunately, 8 months into their 12 month warranty, the replacement kit has also stopped working.  As you can imagine I'm not too happy with Gary Salo or Golden Motor Canada, but I will address that in a new topic.

http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=5992.msg33701#msg33701
(or search: "Golden Motor Canada?") 

Anyway, my symptoms are almost word for word the same as another post on this forum:

http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=5950.0
(Tgice, "Problem with Magic Pie 5")

We both got our kits in October 2015, both had identical problems starting within weeks of each other.  The only difference being his was a MagicPie5 from lunacycles and mine a SmartPie5.  Well, that is, Gary says its a SmartPie5, but the batch#/part# sticker on the motor would seem to indicate that it's a 4, here's the info:

Batch No. 20150625-IV
SMART4 VEC INT 18A V5.3.1
201506001549

so that's a little confusing...but ya, same symptoms as Tgice's post:

--Rode the bike between 100-200 miles and 8 months (Oct2015-May2016)
--In the middle of a ride I suddenly get a crazy, pinging sound and pulsing in power like I was jamming the throttle on and off
--Now won't accelerate from stopped at all, but if I pedal the bike first and then feather the throttle it will pulse and ping again.

I did all the troubleshooting, (I've been a jet aircraft mechanic since 2004, and have built 3 ebikes) same as last time I had a defective motor.  It's not the brakes, it's not the throttle, (I slaved in an identical one from another bike I have) it's not the pedelec.  Connected my laptop to the motor controller, no fault found in the settings or uploading/downloading them. 

So, mine and Tgice's situations are eerily similar. I don't know how widespread this problem will get, hopefully this doesn't turn into a recall type situation.  Although it does seem that lunacycles is unloading their SmartPie5 stock (two weeks ago the kits were marked down and selling without them even being laced them into a wheel first.)  But hopefully it's nothing.  Love to hear from you and/or Gary.

[GM Canada]

When you first bought your Smart Pie 4 it did not work right out of the box. For some odd reason it just ran at one continuous speed. I had you send it back to me and I sent you a free upgrade to sp5. I tested it before shipping and sent you the videos as well. All of this was at no additional cost to you. If you want to check the version of the controller the first two minutes of this video goes into detail how to tell them apart. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szbR5GFmNds

Gary

[Bikemad]

Hi Alan,

Thanks again for your help last September.  As a result, I did receive a replacement for the defective kit from Golden Motor Canada.  Unfortunately, 8 months into their 12 month warranty, the replacement kit has also stopped working.  As you can imagine I'm not too happy with Gary Salo or Golden Motor Canada, but I will address that in a new topic.

I can't imagine why you would be unhappy with Gary/Golden Motor Canada. His customer service is outstanding and he has also given you a more expensive Smart Pie 5 as a replacement for a Smart Pie 4 (at his own expense).

Are you saying that Gary/Golden Motor Canada is somehow directly responsible for a fault that has subsequently developed 8 months after he supplied the replacement motor? 

Please understand that Gary is only a dealer, and is not the designer of the components, or the manufacturer, so I don't see how this could possibly be deemed his fault.

I assume this motor is still within 12 months of the original date of purchase and is therefore still under warranty, so I suggest you raise a support ticket with Gary so that he can deal with this problem in his usual prompt and efficient manner.

The only difference being his was a MagicPie5 from lunacycles and mine a SmartPie5.  Well, that is, Gary says its a SmartPie5, but the batch#/part# sticker on the motor would seem to indicate that it's a 4, here's the info:

Batch No. 20150625-IV
SMART4 VEC INT 18A V5.3.1
201506001549

so that's a little confusing...

The V5.3.1 controller is the Bluetooth compatible controller, so Gary is correct in saying it's a Smart Pie 5.

lunacycles is unloading their SmartPie5 stock (two weeks ago the kits were marked down and selling without them even being laced them into a wheel first.)  But hopefully it's nothing.

If you take a look at the Hub Motor section on the GM website you can see that the Magic Pie and Smart Pies are available at reduced prices if purchased without rims and spokes. This option is for customers who wish to build their own wheels using specific rims and spokes. Shipping is also a lot cheaper because of the reduced size of the package.

Alan
 

[Sam.Vanratt]

Hi Alan,

Thanks again for your help last September.  As a result, I did receive a replacement for the defective kit from Golden Motor Canada.  Unfortunately, 8 months into their 12 month warranty, the replacement kit has also stopped working.  As you can imagine I'm not too happy with Gary Salo or Golden Motor Canada, but I will address that in a new topic. 

Anyway, my symptoms are almost word for word the same as another post on this forum:

http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=5950.0
(Tgice, "Problem with Magic Pie 5")

We both got our kits in October 2015, both had identical problems starting within weeks of each other.  The only difference being his was a MagicPie5 from lunacycles and mine a SmartPie5.  Well, that is, Gary says its a SmartPie5, but the batch#/part# sticker on the motor would seem to indicate that it's a 4, here's the info:

Batch No. 20150625-IV
SMART4 VEC INT 18A V5.3.1
201506001549

so that's a little confusing...but ya, same symptoms as Tgice's post:

--Rode the bike between 100-200 miles and 8 months (Oct2015-May2016)
--In the middle of a ride I suddenly get a crazy, pinging sound and pulsing in power like I was jamming the throttle on and off
--Now won't accelerate from stopped at all, but if I pedal the bike first and then feather the throttle it will pulse and ping again.

I did all the troubleshooting, (I've been a jet aircraft mechanic since 2004, and have built 3 ebikes) same as last time I had a defective motor.  It's not the brakes, it's not the throttle, (I slaved in an identical one from another bike I have) it's not the pedelec.  Connected my laptop to the motor controller, no fault found in the settings or uploading/downloading them. 

So, mine and Tgice's situations are eerily similar. I don't know how widespread this problem will get, hopefully this doesn't turn into a recall type situation.  Although it does seem that lunacycles is unloading their SmartPie5 stock (two weeks ago the kits were marked down and selling without them even being laced them into a wheel first.)  But hopefully it's nothing.  Love to hear from you and/or Gary.

Hi Beardamabobs
Gary is for sure a very trustful person and does a lot of work (documentation, advise, tests) just for the fun of helping people and maybe customers!!!

Unluckily I already "wrecked" 4 MP3 controller's myself (in 4 years and about 40.000km) with just using them (at 24V and very moderate settings) and nearly always opened a thread here about the case. I only once had a fully defective controller, three times it was one part (PAS, Regen, Speed limit) which was not longer working like before.
While my MP3 mechanic is (nearly) perfect (the bearings are not HiQ), the electronic is quite unreliable. Every change of my MP3 controller was done beyond the 6 month warranty, so I always bought a new one (at DeviMotion NL), but that's not their fault, but GMs design and QM. I switched now to a VESC controller, because there I have everything in my hand, but it's external and takes a big charm away from the integrity of the MP.
As this forum has a lot of modders as well, some switched their controller as well (mainly to the 63V limit) and use the high quality of the MP and use external controllers to brake the speed of sound barrier (it seems sometimes...), so there have also been a few attempts to change the block comm. controller to a vector controller, so this board is surely happy to have that experience here.
Hope you solve it!
Cheers
Sam