Author Topic: Need help figuring out bad cels in GM 36 volt 16 AH battery.  (Read 18225 times)

Offline Leslie

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Re: Need help figuring out bad cels in GM 36 volt 16 AH battery.
« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2012, 02:27:31 PM »
Cool.

Id be intereted in how this pack goes. 

I assume if its no good you will know pretty soon after using it for a little while. 

Give the pack 2 weeks warm up before pushing it hard is advisable.  This will improve its energy density and lower the internal resistance to optimal. 

Higher resistance on a brand new pack will cause a bit more heat in the cells.  They will perform at about 80% of their full ability .

Cheaper cells, I recommend 1C for 2 weeks, maybe 10-14 cycles. and no more than 1.5C after this time.  The longer you are easy on a pack the better, up to a point and then it makes little difference as going easy on a pack will always make it live longer.
1C On your new pack = No more than 20 amps  for 2 weeks then 30 amps should be sweet to ride for years..  So a little eazy on the throttle when it is new should be fine.

« Last Edit: February 25, 2012, 02:32:32 PM by Les »

Bring it on

Offline tex tiles

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Re: Need help figuring out bad cels in GM 36 volt 16 AH battery.
« Reply #16 on: March 03, 2012, 02:19:59 AM »

Cheaper cells, I recommend 1C for 2 weeks, maybe 10-14 cycles. and no more than 1.5C after this time. 

What does that mean?  1C? Sorry, I have no idea what you are talking about.......
Layman's terms please.

Offline MonkeyMagic

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Re: Need help figuring out bad cels in GM 36 volt 16 AH battery.
« Reply #17 on: March 03, 2012, 06:08:59 AM »

Cheaper cells, I recommend 1C for 2 weeks, maybe 10-14 cycles. and no more than 1.5C after this time. 

What does that mean?  1C? Sorry, I have no idea what you are talking about.......
Layman's terms please.

You should find the answer on "Google":

http://www.google.com

:D
« Last Edit: March 04, 2012, 02:57:07 PM by GM Moderator »

Offline Cornelius

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Re: Need help figuring out bad cels in GM 36 volt 16 AH battery.
« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2012, 06:00:59 AM »
That 'C' in 1C stands for 'Capacity', where Capacity are the battery's rated capacity in Ampere.

For example; '1C' for a 36V, 16Ah battery would be 16 Ampere; '2C' would be 32 Ampere, and '0.5C' (also often written as 'C/2') would be 8 Ampere.

It's a useful way to indicate a specific current for a series of battery types, without being specific... ;D
For example, GM's 36V, 12Ah battery and GM's 36V, 16Ah battery are built the same way and should be treated the same way, but they have different capacities, so they have different charge and discharge amperages, but both can be said to have 'max cont. discharge rate' of 2C for example.
(That would be 24A for the 12Ah, and 32A for the 16Ah battery... ;) You see? Same, but different. :) )

Offline MonkeyMagic

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Re: Need help figuring out bad cels in GM 36 volt 16 AH battery.
« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2012, 06:43:17 AM »
Oh sorry I see my post (now ammended) was not directly so helpful, sorry if I caused any frustration!!

At one point "C" ratings were also complete jibberish to me, but I am generally too impatient to wait for replies so I google alot of everything (I think hey, if I have the question - surely someone else has?)

Anyway, for example I do google search for "Battery C Rating" (link) and heaps of other people have asked the same thing.

I just didn't want to write a novel about it the other day, and many of the "terms" or technology is explained on wikipedia that I find with the google links

Anyway apologies if it came across the wrong way :D
« Last Edit: March 04, 2012, 03:06:03 PM by GM Moderator »

Offline tex tiles

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Re: Need help figuring out bad cels in GM 36 volt 16 AH battery.
« Reply #20 on: March 05, 2012, 01:15:16 AM »
Thanks Cornelius and MonkeyDude for your thoughtful replies and to the moderator for getting the thread back on track.

So, if I am to understand what you are saying, if I have a 20 amp hour 36 volt, then 1C = 20 amps current draw? At once? Or over an hour....

I don't have a cycle analyst but I do have a 3 amp fuse in circuit so I don't think I am drawing anywhere near 20 amps, otherwise I would blow the fuse which I don't. 20 amps would probably melt wires methinks...



I am guessing in the dark here that the general idea Les was alluding to was to go easy on the battery for a couple of weeks. Does that mean not go too far? I should have a range of 43 kilometers at full speed on flat, so don't go that far?

Offline Bikemad

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Re: Need help figuring out bad cels in GM 36 volt 16 AH battery.
« Reply #21 on: March 05, 2012, 02:44:59 AM »
A 20Ah 36V LiFePO4 pack delivering power a a rate of 1C should supply 20 amps continuous for a whole hour.

I am a bit puzzled by your 3 amp fuse, as this seems much too small for your 500 watt motor.
Supplying 500 watts at 36 volts would require almost 14 amps.

Drawing only 3 amps from a 36 volt pack would only allow 108 watts of power to be consumed by your motor (Watts = Volts x Amps), which doesn't seem very much to me. After allowing for the inefficiencies of the motor, you would probably only receive around 90 watts of assistance, and your 20Ah pack should run for at least 6.5 hours at 3 amps continuous. ???

With a 36V pack, I would expect your top speed to be at least 30km/h. If it was possible to maintain this speed by using just 3 amps of current, you would have a range of around 200km. :o

20Ah/3A = 6.66hrs, 6.66hrs @ 30km/h = 199.8kms.

Pete, are you sure it's only a 3 amp fuse?


I am guessing in the dark here that the general idea Les was alluding to was to go easy on the battery for a couple of weeks. Does that mean not go too far? I should have a range of 43 kilometers at full speed on flat, so don't go that far?

As Les has already suggested, simply taking it easy on the throttle will greatly reduce the rate at which the current will be consumed, especially when accelerating away from a standstill or climbing steep hills.

I recommend 1C for 2 weeks, maybe 10-14 cycles. and no more than 1.5C after this time. 

1C On your new pack = No more than 20 amps for 2 weeks then 30 amps should be sweet to ride for years..  So a little eazy on the throttle when it is new should be fine.


It's also beneficial for the longevity of the pack if you don't run the battery too low each time you use it, so if you can aim to use less than 70-80% of your pack's capacity, you should increase its life expectancy.

Alan
 
« Last Edit: March 05, 2012, 02:47:44 AM by Bikemad »

Offline e-lmer

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Re: Need help figuring out bad cels in GM 36 volt 16 AH battery.
« Reply #22 on: March 06, 2012, 04:13:55 AM »
An important consideration, and one that is difficult to quantify,
is that the actual power consumption is much higher than the
theoretical (V x A) because of motor efficiency and
heat/friction loss.

A rule of thumb I use is 80%, although I base it
on experience more than any math.




Offline tex tiles

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Re: Need help figuring out bad cels in GM 36 volt 16 AH battery.
« Reply #23 on: March 06, 2012, 07:19:42 AM »


Pete, are you sure it's only a 3 amp fuse?



Alan

Duh....   actually I need better glasses. I read your statement and went out and looked at the fuse and it's 30 amp not 3. That makes more sense. Sorry about that. :)

So I have gone on a couple of rides with the new battery and it sure is nice. Feels like a full tank of gas. I rode for quite a while (about 20 k) with some hills and headwinds (Victoria Canada), I tried not to use too much throttle on the hills as suggested earlier and came home and measured the battery and it had gone down from 40.8 volts to 39.8 volts.
I'm hoping this will last....

Offline Bikemad

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Re: Power efficiency and range
« Reply #24 on: March 07, 2012, 03:48:45 PM »
An important consideration, and one that is difficult to quantify,
is that the actual power consumption is much higher than the
theoretical (V x A) because of motor efficiency and
heat/friction loss.


Elmer, it makes more sense if you say "the actual power output from the wheel is much lower than the theoretical (V x A) because of motor inefficiency due to heat and friction losses".

I would expect the actual power consumption to be identical to the theoretical Watts calculated by multiplying the measured voltage by the measured current.

I read your statement and went out and looked at the fuse and it's 30 amp not 3. That makes more sense. Sorry about that. :)

Pete, it seems that you won't be able to achieve that 200km range after all. :-[

Alan