Off road legal, on road legal with motor disconnected.

[Fred funk]

Hello,

I apologize if this is anywhere else. I did search but I don't have much faith in my search. Anyway, here is the question:

If an electric mountain has two motors or some other system that well exceeds the legal limit BUT also has two settings, one for the street and one for the mountain, would it be legal to ride it on the street on the street setting?

My logic is something like:

If I have a backpack/basket with a swap out motor in it and I swap that out once I get off road, it is clearly legal. So you can imagine various situations where the motor is closer and closer to being used but actually isn't used. (Mounted but missing a chain, missing a battery, etc.)

At some point, all that is missing is the last little connection, i.e. closing the final circuit.

I realize the law takes a dim view of cleverness and I am actually in support of regulation: I don't want a drunken kid racing around on his new bike either. But I really think the law is wrong to be aimed at power instead of speed and weight (just like they don't limit the horsepower of cars, only set a speed limit and a weight class).

Anyway, the question is serious..

Thanks

Fred

[SydneyCommuter]

Here in the 'nanni state' after some research I have come to this solution.
Pathetic 200watt limit is rediculous and not worth bothering to stick to in any way.
Anecdotal evidence is that the police determine if your legal by observing if you are peddling as the basic idea is that you have a motor assisted push bike not a peddle assisted motor cycle. So if your peddling it your not likely to get their attention. Given that they don't drive around with a dyno or a power meter in their boot how else would they tell??
The trick is to ensure that the machine peddle component is harmonised with the motor/bicycle speed, so that most of the time your peddling along even if its just a token effort.
That was how I designed my machine and asside from a few teathing problems its proving about right in practice.
So 26in mounti, rear drive 36 volt internal control pie, 48T front crank, see the post for 7 cog 11T rear shimano freewheel casset and shims on back (ps I got t he shim washers ready to go from a specialist nut/bolt engineering place) and its a perfect match.

I'd be interested in any feedback from the experienced electric guys if they have had any interest from the boys in blue and how it went, my research before starting was only a couple of people being busted on Petrol settups, not peddling.

[MonkeyMagic]

Hey bloke

Not many Aussies roam this forum, we are basically a handful

I live in VIC and personally have NEVER had issues with the cops on my dual drive. I pedal very little if at all.

You will find if you don't have a petrol motor, the cops won't look twice.

Already confirmed that cost exceeds demand for testing units, so as long as you say its 200W - there is no law to say you have to pedal. I ride without any worries, I would say if you are looking suss riding around they will pull you over.

Its too much of a fine line here in OZ with all of the mobility scooters averaging around 350W nothing is legal anyway.

It's all stupid Lance Armstrongs fault if I see that guy he can expect a punch in the nose from me lol they gave Lance a series of electric bicycles to try, and he said anything more than 200W is DANGEROUS for the rider. Hence the Euro and OZ/NZ laws. That sucks!!!

Dont worry about it mate, just ride and be happy

[Fred funk]

Thanks for the replies.

IF it was just for, I also wouldn't worry about it. Aside from not worrying in general, I am not expecting the police to hassle me since 1) I have no intention of driving obnoxiosly and 2) most of the places I would want to really use the extra effort require driving to get there (given work, etc).

However, if I become an electric bike tour operator/guide, I face an entirely different set of responsibilities and risks. I'm not too worried about the police as again, I don't really see anyone behaving poorly while in the tour.

However, I have to have insurance, etc.. All this requires 'legality'.

There are lots of other problems with this idea, but maybe those have some sort of work-around.  The legality question is interesting though.

For example, suppose that I have two motors. One is pedalelec, the other second system is for hills. Suppose that it is legal for me to have both systems as long as one is 'disabled' while on the road. At what point do the police have the right to inspect the rider to determine if the second system is in fact disabled? I suppose here in Italy the answer is any time they want, not theoretically but practically at least.

But I think it is an interesting question. I wish someone with legal expereince could answer it.

[SydneyCommuter]

Monkey

Thanks, Thats the sort of feedback I was looking for, just confirms my anecdotal research.
I deliberately designed my unit so I'd still get a cycling work out if I want, but can back right off if I choose so my one MP at 36v so far seems to fit the bill.

What we need is more total bloody idiots like the petrol guy riding up the M2 motorway in peak hour (I kid you not, that's since the roadworks removed all the break down lanes that we were officialy aloud on on cycles, strait up the left lane on a suicide mission, total nutter, my nominee for this years Darwin awards, I recon if you tried that in Melb they'd take up away in a straight jacket) keeping the cops looking at them and not at us.

F'ing Lance Armstrong, thanks for nothing, elitist git!!! he can pump out 400+ watts all day so bugger everyone else.

Your dead right typical OZ stupid laws that no one keeps, SNAFU. what was that saying 'the law is an ass!'
Cheers
Mark

Cheers